UPS and surge protector info, tips and tidbits.

[maxfly]

I've got a dead 25yo APC unit (forgot the model, 1500 something)but I have neither the motivation nor the time to take it apart to see whats wrong with it. Some day I may take it somewhere to have it repaired but I doubt it. Sad because I really liked the old girl.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Yeah, as I said above, I have a 30 year old APC still chugging along. It has been relegated to the garage because it buzzes and it is that old computer beige color that has yellowed over time and looks even worse. But it will allow my garage door opener to open and close the door a couple times, should I lose power. That's nice because there is no way to open the door from the outside, except with the opener.

 

[unwind-protect]

I went back to Cyberpower after a bad experience long ago. No problems now.

I have heard people say convincingly that APC charges the batteries more aggressively and hence has shorter battery lifetime.

 

[maxfly]

I went back to Cyberpower after a bad experience long ago. No problems now.

I have heard people say convincingly that APC charges the batteries more aggressively and hence has shorter battery lifetime.

Well, I cant speak to their current models but my average was 5 years between changes with my APC (never bought APC branded batteries). In fact the batteries in it are brand spanking new that was of course the last thing I tried to revive the old girl.

Never had an issue with it...until I did.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I have heard people say convincingly that APC charges the batteries more aggressively and hence has shorter battery lifetime.

Never heard of such a thing - with any battery.

It is important to understand that chargers do not push their charge voltage on to the batteries. Instead, the batteries take on the charge they want and can handle, based on the capacity of the charger.

This means the batteries can NOT be forced to take a greater charge than they need. This assumes the charger's voltage is right for the battery but I have no reason to believe APC's is intentionally high as they know that would be bad for the batteries. Nor is there any reason to suspect CyberPower's charge voltage is intentionally low since they know that would restrict the charge and thus limit run times.

I will say this. Back in 2007, APC was bought out by Schneider Electric. Schneider Electric almost immediately implemented cost cutting measures that directly impacted APC UPS quality and reliability - and not in a good way. Perhaps you fell victim to that.

Fortunately, Schneider Electric eventually woke up - in part by CyberPower taking over much of the marketshare APC previously enjoyed. And after about 5 or so years of poor sales, they started making decent UPS again.

 

[R-T-B]

To be clear, crimping wires is an acceptable method for making connections WHEN DONE PROPERLY - and assuming no damage after leaving the factory. Even in high voltage, high current circuits it is perfectly acceptable and legal AND SAFE - again, WHEN DONE PROPERLY with no subsequent damage. The 240VAC mains drop in to our homes is done with, what is essentially a crimp in our circuit panels. Every wire in every wall outlet in our homes is crimped in place by simply tightening a screw (or simply via a spring applying pressure), smashing the wire between the crimping plates.

I was speaking as to what I'd prefer from a personal preference standpoint, not what is/isn't safe.

Never heard of such a thing - with any battery.

It is important to understand that chargers do not push their charge voltage on to the batteries. Instead, the batteries take on the charge they want and can handle, based on the capacity of the charger.

This means the batteries can NOT be forced to take a greater charge than they need. This assumes the charger's voltage is right for the battery but I have no reason to believe APC's is intentionally high as they know that would be bad for the batteries. Nor is there any reason to suspect CyberPower's charge voltage is intentionally low since they know that would restrict the charge and thus limit run times.

I will say this. Back in 2007, APC was bought out by Schneider Electric. Schneider Electric almost immediately implemented cost cutting measures that directly impacted APC UPS quality and reliability - and not in a good way. Perhaps you fell victim to that.

Fortunately, Schneider Electric eventually woke up - in part by CyberPower taking over much of the marketshare APC previously enjoyed. And after about 5 or so years of poor sales, they started making decent UPS again.

On that note, I hope Tripp Lite does not suffer the same under Eaton.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I was speaking as to what I'd prefer from a personal preference standpoint, not what is/isn't safe.

I am assuming you are referring to your comment,

My main beef with the APC design is it's crimped wire, not even properly soldered wire.

I don't mind crimps if done properly - and for sure, in that one example in that video, it seems obvious that black wire was not properly crimped.

In no way am I defending the transformer manufacturer for that. That transformer should have never left the factory.

As far as soldered wired, I will note over the years (decades! ), I have seen some very shoddy solder joints. In fact, many PSU, graphics card, and motherboard reviews often make a point of commenting on the soldering, right? Even in this forum, there have been several threads commenting on bad solder joints with products from major brands - with suggestions (by some in this very thread) to touch them up with an iron.

My point there is, I would MUCH RATHER have a properly crimped joint than a bad solder joint.

As for copper vs aluminum transformer windings, there are pros and cons for both. I recommend those who immediately judge aluminum to be inferior/unacceptable to set aside your prejudices and read Aluminum winding pros and cons, and note the significant pros aluminum enjoys too. And the note big con for copper about the potential for "complete" corrosion, a problem not found in aluminum.

Don't believe them? Okay, Eaton (*see below) is, in the opinion of many IT techs, including me, one of the leading UPS makers - especially for SOHO applications. Note the Eaton paper, Copper vs. aluminum conductor where it says (my bold underline added),

There is a common misconception that a distribution transformer with copper windings is in some way more efficient, more reliable, or has higher short-circuit strength when compared to a transformer with aluminum windings.

Improvements in technology regarding the use of aluminum in transformers have made aluminum-wound transformers the ideal choice for today’s applications.

It is time to let the biases against aluminum go - as long as we heed the lessons learned from the past.

Any criticism regarding the UPS in that video should be about quality control of the connections, not about the type connection (crimp vs solder) or windings material used (aluminum vs copper).

And BTW, that video is almost 2 years old (Feb 2023), and again is about 1 UPS out of many. Doesn't it seem logical if there was a pattern or trend, rather than an exception, that there would be many more, and much more recent reports, and not just a viral repeat of the same 2 year old report?

****

On that note, I hope Tripp Lite does not suffer the same under Eaton.

Regarding Eaton acquiring Tripp Lite. First, I saw that as a good thing. Both companies have fine reputations for quality products. Second, that acquisition was nearly 4 years ago. I believe if any degradation in quality as they eliminated duplications to cut costs was to happen, it would have become apparent already.

So the only downside that I have seen is the merger has resulted in fewer options for us consumers as the company trims down the now combined lines to avoid their own products competing with each other.

 

[Shrek]

I have heard people say convincingly that APC charges the batteries more aggressively and hence has shorter battery lifetime.

I'd rather trickle charge at a lower voltage and so slower than sacrifice battery life.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I'd rather trickle charge at a lower voltage and so slower than sacrifice battery life.

Ummm, you seem to be confused here. Regardless if using a high capacity industrial charger, or a tiny trickle charger, the charge "voltage" is the same.

If you really meant current capacity, that is not an issue. As noted above, the battery pulls, the charger does not push. Just like a PC's power supply. If the computer (motherboard, CPU, RAM, graphics, drives etc.) demands 300W, the PSU will deliver 300W, even if the PSU is capable of delivering 500W or a 1000W.

A car battery uses the exact same SLA technology as UPS SLA batteries and one could hardly say a car's alternator, or the chargers used at a battery store or repair shop deliver trickle charges.

If me, just like my truck battery, I want my UPS batteries recharged quickly so they are ready to take over and support my electronics (or truck) ASAP instead of having to wait hours and hours.

I think you might be confusing one of the benefits of trickle charging. Yes, they do prolong battery life but that is NOT due to their tiny current capacity. It is because trickle chargers are typically left connected for long periods of time, often months over-winter. Keeping a SLA battery charged prolongs its life. Allowing a SLA battery to stay at a depleted or partially depleted charge decreases the battery life.

See What Is Trickle Charging and Is It Good for Car Batteries?

 

[Shrek]

Selecting the right charging method for Lead-Acid Battery-Lab Projects BD

 

[Bill_Bright]

Ummm, your image does not tell us anything in regards to damage or longevity.

And your link is not secure - not going there.

 

[Shrek]

It says the voltage is NOT constant.

Anyhow, we are off topic here.

 

[Bill_Bright]

It's constant enough. It has to be.

Sadly, your image does not show where 0V is.

But think about it for second. If you have a 12 volt battery and you connect a 11 volt charger to it, guess what? The charger is going to discharge the battery until there is an equilibrium.

 

[EsaT]

Also, we are in disagreement on the vibration. I've seen this happen on a few occasion in a lab, which taught me to a) secure parts and wires and b) use crimped connections when appropriate.

Both fan and solder joint would need to have been total garbage from the start for fan's vibration to break joint.
Normal fans used in PCs and this kind electronics just don't vibrate much if good.
And unless some wire was hard glued to fan's frame would be hard to see any significant vibration reaching joints.

Though granted NF-F12 and NF-P12 I got with Noctua's CPU coolers reminded me about idling chainsaw when set on table...

The downside to always online UPSes is that there is efficiency loss when converting to DC and then back to AC. Depending on construction the output converter could have a limited lifespan due to capacitors for example - if anyone has info on that please post.

Even the cheapest off-line UPS will have those electrolytic capacitors there.
And you can bet they were chosen for cheap price and not for quality.
And that low/bad quality can be worsened by closed box design with plastic casing insulating heat inside, like in earlier APC Back-UPS ES.

Neighbour had one of those which started going haywire and if you powered it down/let it cool, it wouldn't power up well:
After battery test it didn't want to stay on mains power and kept going back and forth with relay keeping clicking at rapid, but slowing down speed untill settling on mains power after warming up for minute or two.
Also it was running very warm... Which was likely battery charger working at full steam constantly considering PCB's colour under/around it.
Recapping it solved both power up and running hot issues.

Besides not as cheap components high end UPSes usually have also that cooling fan precisely to keep inside temperature and component wear under control.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Just because a capacitor is an electrolytic capacitor, that does not mean it is inferior junk destined fail soon. There are quality "solid" electrolytics, for example, that are based on tantalum or niobium-oxide that meet military and NASA grade requirements without adding too much to the costs.

Pretty sure no one here is suggesting a cheap UPS so I fail to see the point is even mentioning them.

The big problem I see with users is they tend to buy just barely enough for their needs. This is a double edge sword. (1) The UPS then has a short runtime but the bigger problem, IMO, is (2) higher capacity UPS tend to have the better features. This is why I always go for 1500VA UPS. These will easily support my computer 2 monitors, my router and my modem. But the 1500VA models also tend to support PC communications, have an LCD display panel, faster response times and [hopefully] a better design and better components.

I am not aware of any efficiency issues just because a UPS is always online. The biggest downside is the batteries are always between the mains and the load and so the expected life of the batteries tend to be less than with an interactive UPS.

The upside, of course is the batteries are always between the mains and the load so there is no delay between power loss and power supplied by the batteries. This is not a problem with typical computing and networking equipment, home theater, big screen TVs and most other electronics since any good UPS will easily detect and cutover to battery in 10ms or less (4 - 8 ms is pretty common) and most electronics power supplies are easily able to "hold up" power for at least 10ms.

 

[EsaT]

As for copper vs aluminum transformer windings, there are pros and cons for both. I recommend those who immediately judge aluminum to be inferior/unacceptable to set aside your prejudices and read Aluminum winding pros and cons, and note the significant pros aluminum enjoys too. And the note big con for copper about the potential for "complete" corrosion, a problem not found in aluminum.

Also badly done copper wiring/its connections fail just fine through vibration... and corrosion.
So proper application is everything.
And while not applying for UPSes, humidity can be hard to keep out of wiring in equipment/machinery easily resulting pretty horrible looking copper wiring.

Keeping a SLA battery charged prolongs its life. Allowing a SLA battery to stay at a depleted or partially depleted charge decreases the battery life.

Discharged state would be the most efficient way of prematurely killing lead acid battery.
And bonus points for storage in true cold temperatures.
Though again for lithium chemistry continuous high cell voltage is cause of increased degradation and they like "golden middle" for minimizing aging/wear.

As for battery charging differences Eaton advertises technology stopping trickle charging for certain period, if battery voltage stays high enough:

https://www.insight.com/content/dam/insight/en_US/pdfs/eaton/whitepapers/eaton-advanced-battery-management-in-ups-whitepaper.pdf

Hard to know how much of it is marketing.
But current UPS Eaton 5P definitely went lot more than marginally longer before backup time degrading badly than basically its predecessor MGE Pulsar Evolution. (Eaton bought that part of MGE)

The upside, of course is the batteries are always between the mains and the load so there is no delay between power loss and power supplied by the batteries. This is not a problem with typical computing and networking equipment, home theater, big screen TVs and most other electronics since any good UPS will easily detect and cutover to battery in 10ms or less (4 - 8 ms is pretty common) and most electronics power supplies are easily able to "hold up" power for at least 10ms.

Unless removed from newer specifications, ATX PSU should provide full output power for ~17ms without mains voltage.
Though of course assuming PSU is good and not random cheapo failing to comply with much anything.

 

[Shrek]

Needed? Nah. But need is a powerful word. I imagine it reduces electronic strain more than a bit.

Now that I think about it, the voltage on the primary capacitor of a PC power supply varies significantly between AC crests, so voltage variations are a normal part of a PC power supply's life.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Unless removed from newer specifications, ATX PSU should provide full output power for ~17ms without mains voltage.

The latest standard says a minimum of 17ms at 80% load and and 12ms at 100% load. But of course that applies to ATX compliant PSUs only. There are no similar standards for other power supplies. Fortunately, every monitor, modem and router I have owned or used and connected to a good UPS has stayed up long enough to hold until the UPSs takes over.

Now that I think about it, the voltage on the primary capacitor of a PC power supply varies significantly between AC crests, so voltage variations are a normal part of a PC power supply's life.

That's totally different. AC, by definition, varies from a negative peak, through 0V up to a positive peak then back down again. No where near the same scenario as charging a batter with a DC voltage.

As for battery charging differences Eaton advertises technology stopping trickle charging for certain period, if battery voltage stays high enough:

It is common for many chargers to disable charging output once the battery reaches a certain level. In fact, some even allow some discharging to occur to prevent memory effect or in the case of Li-ion, premature aging.

But this is now way OT.

 

[qxp]

Just because a capacitor is an electrolytic capacitor, that does not mean it is inferior junk destined fail soon. There are quality "solid" electrolytics, for example, that are based on tantalum or niobium-oxide that meet military and NASA grade requirements without adding too much to the costs.

Actually I don't like tantalum capacitors because they often fail by creating a short-circuit. I got some old electronics test equipment and one of the first things to check is whether tantalums have shorted, followed by conventional electrolytics. My preferred replacement are MLCC. I even got bunch of extra large ones so they better match lead spacing of through hole capacitors. MLCCs age too, but it has more to do with surges and cosmic rays.

As for UPS, what I saw so far is that the very big electrolytics in the power supply do not fail, probably because they are carefully made to handle power. But what brings the UPS down are tiny electrolytics that stabilize power rails on the controller. This is especially true for AVRs - the electrolytics dry out and have smaller capacitance, the power rail gets noisier and starts switching between transformer windings more often. This then kills the relay.

Pretty sure no one here is suggesting a cheap UPS so I fail to see the point is even mentioning them.

Depends on what you call "cheap". I usually think of cheap as a consumer unit rated for 1500kVA - as it is a minimum for a single desktop. Right now these are ~$200, a fraction of price of computer. The industrial units are usually pricier starting at ~$2000 new.

It used to be 1500kVA units were rock solid and worked for years, so I was surprised at the failures.

The big problem I see with users is they tend to buy just barely enough for their needs. This is a double edge sword. (1) The UPS then has a short runtime but the bigger problem, IMO, is (2) higher capacity UPS tend to have the better features. This is why I always go for 1500VA UPS. These will easily support my computer 2 monitors, my router and my modem. But the 1500VA models also tend to support PC communications, have an LCD display panel, faster response times and [hopefully] a better design and better components.

This was pretty much my thinking several years back.

I am not aware of any efficiency issues just because a UPS is always online. The biggest downside is the batteries are always between the mains and the load and so the expected life of the batteries tend to be less than with an interactive UPS.

Well an "always online" UPS first converts to DC and then back to AC. The converters have efficiency less than 100% so you lose some energy. A regular UPS will just do a pass-through with negligible loss.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Depends on what you call "cheap". I usually think of cheap as a consumer unit rated for 1500kVA - as it is a minimum for a single desktop

Total hogwash! Come on, dude!

When you say stuff like that, I am reminded of a saying I learned over 50 years ago, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh!t!" You failed on both points - no dazzle and the only baffle is wondering why you would attempt such act on a technical site like TPU where there are many very experienced, highly technical people who clearly know BS when they see it.

Assuming a simple typo and you meant 1500VA (and not 1500 "k" VA), a typical 1500VA has a wattage capacity of around 900W. The vast majority of desktops consume no where near 900W - even when stressed. The vast majority of desktops don't even have PSUs that big. Even for high-end PCs with 1200W PSUs, it is extremely rare for the CPU, the GPU, the motherboard, the RAM, the fans, and the drives to ALL be demanding maximum power at the same point in time. So even in those rare cases where a PSU has the capacity to demand that much power, it is even more rare it would do so.

So I don't know who you are trying to fool - but it's not us.

The industrial units are usually pricier starting at ~$2000 new.

Gee whiz. This is just being argumentative and frankly, silly. How many readers on this site are considering buying $2000 "industrial" class UPS? If that was the intent of your thread, you should have stated that in your opening post.

The TRUTH is, a "good" 1500VA UPS with AVR is more than enough for the vast majority of home and small office users to support their computer along with their monitor (or monitors) and network gear and still have plenty of headroom left so they don't have to rush to save their work before the batteries run down.

The TRUTH is, the vast majority of members and guests to this site are not interested in industrial class UPS.

The TRUTH is, most users don't have more than one computer to support - other than a PC and a laptop. But for those of us who do have multiple PCs (I have 5 here, for example), they are not all along the same wall so they could all be plugged into the same "industrial class" UPS, Nor are they being heavily tasks at the same point in time, and we are not going to string extensions cords all over the place to do so.

Actually I don't like tantalum capacitors because they often fail by creating a short-circuit.

More total nonsense. Quality tantalum caps, properly selected for the application, are highly reliable and durable and thus are frequently used in medical, military and aerospace applications, as well as many power supplies and even, because of their performance, used in precision measuring equipment used to test and calibrate other devices.

PLEASE stop spewing nonsense.

This is really sad as this could have been a constructive, informative thread - but as I fear and noted in my first post, it is not. I will step out now.

 

[qxp]

Assuming a simple typo and you meant 1500VA (and not 1500 "k" VA), a typical 1500VA has a wattage capacity of around 900W. The vast majority of desktops consume no where near 900W - even when stressed. The vast majority of desktops don't even have PSUs that big. Even for high-end PCs with 1200W PSUs, it is extremely rare for the CPU, the GPU, the motherboard, the RAM, the fans, and the drives to ALL be demanding maximum power at the same point in time. So even in those rare cases where a PSU has the capacity to demand that much power, it is even more rare it would do so.

Yep, just a typo. There are two reasons why I consider 1500VA to be minimum for my purchases: the battery just begins to have decent capacity to keep the desktop powered for tens of minutes, and my desktops tend to use more power than a notebook. Because otherwise I would just a get a notebook with built-in UPS

So I don't know who you are trying to fool - but it's not us.


Gee whiz. This is just being argumentative and frankly, silly. How many readers on this site are considering buying $2000 "industrial" class UPS? If that was the intent of your thread, you should have stated that in your opening post.

The TRUTH is, a "good" 1500VA UPS with AVR is more than enough for the vast majority of home and small office users to support their computer along with their monitor (or monitors) and network gear and still have plenty of headroom left so they don't have to rush to save their work before the batteries run down.

The TRUTH is, the vast majority of members and guests to this site are not interested in industrial class UPS.

The TRUTH is, most users don't have more than one computer to support - other than a PC and a laptop. But for those of us who do have multiple PCs (I have 5 here, for example), they are not all along the same wall so they could all be plugged into the same "industrial class" UPS, Nor are they being heavily tasks at the same point in time, and we are not going to string extensions cords all over the place to do so.

Well, I am speaking from personal experience, and while one can get by without higher grade UPSes (or even without UPS at all), there are advantages. One is a slot to insert a network card so you get more monitoring - it is cool to see the voltage the UPS puts out and the power draw of attached equipment without plugging in Kill-a-Watt and looking at it constantly. Industrial units tend to have bigger batteries and an ability to add more batteries externally. I wish APC did not use a proprietary connector.

Also, sometimes you can get these industrial units used for much less than MSRP.

With the smaller industrial units I usually use only one computer, or a couple of switches. I bought bigger ones for work, but they need beefier wall plates (30A+).

I always had more than one computer, except maybe for the very first one. I say "maybe", because back then I had no money and bought it for less than $100 not working - I just wanted to have a computer. I fixed it in the end by buying more computers and swapping parts. Do you really have a computer if it does not work ? Probably does not need UPS

More total nonsense. Quality tantalum caps, properly selected for the application, are highly reliable and durable and thus are frequently used in medical, military and aerospace applications, as well as many power supplies and even, because of their performance, used in precision measuring equipment used to test and calibrate other devices.

PLEASE stop spewing nonsense.

This is really sad as this could have been a constructive, informative thread - but as I fear and noted in my first post, it is not. I will step out now.

Oh Bill... Just as with the discussion on vibration and aluminum windings, you are not going to change my mind by being more emphatic, but I will be thankful for a logical argument and/or a piece of data.

Allow me to do the same. Here is a link to a page from KEMET - a large capacitor (and other parts) manufacturer:

Failure Analysis of Capacitors and Inductors

General construction of Tantalum, Aluminum electrolytic, Multi-layer Ceramics, Film, and Super capacitors and Common Mode Choke and Surface Mount inductors are explained.

www.kemet.com

KEMET writes "Ta-CAPS can fail in high leakage/short, high ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance) or open/low capacitance mode, with high leakage/short being the most common mode.".

And here is a picture of my EIP-575 counter, which I repaired, and the problem was a bunch of tantalum capacitors shorting and bringing 5V bus down. It works perfectly now. In contrast, I have never seen failures of electrolytic or MLCC capacitors that resulted in a short.

Btw, does anyone have experience with UPSes for Raspberry Pi ? Or Arduinos ?

The only one I ever used is X725:

X725 - Geekworm Wiki

wiki.geekworm.com

Got it on Amazon, and my experience is mixed - on one hand my Raspberry Pi never was down over several years, but I had problems using the Ethernet port, and I don't think I quite figured out software power-off/wake up.

 

[Bill_Bright]

As you have done several times now, you made a "statement of fact". This time you said (typo corrected),

1500VA - as it is a minimum for a single desktop

That statement of fact is what I responded to because that, especially as an absolute blanket statement, is total nonsense.

NOW (and I appreciate this) you came back and clarified by saying (my bold underline added to illustrate critical differences),

I consider 1500VA to be minimum for my purchases

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion and I will defend your right to express them vigorously - even if I don't share it. But, as noted in my signature, you are NOT entitled to your own facts. So if you make a statement of fact that is clearly inaccurate, I will dispute it just as vigorously.

This is a "technical" support forum. Not Facebook, X, or the op-ed page of the NY Times. This is a place people come seeking the facts.

You seem to believe that what you experience in your own tiny bubble is how it is for the rest of the universe! That is NOT reality. As also noted via the link in my signature, I've been around electronics for awhile. This is how I know "for a fact" that "quality" tantalum capacitors are highly regarded for their reliability and durability. NASA, the military and private aerospace companies surely would not send them into space if they were not.

Are there exceptions? Of course! Your anecdotal example of the X725 might be one. I say "might" because we don't know if they were (1) quality, (2) the right caps for the application, or (3) if something else, an excessive surge for example, took them out. Certainly, if an entire population on a card failed all at once, that does NOT suggest a capacitor design flaw or limitation with the chemistry. It suggests the wrong cap for the job, or some outside influence took them out.

So please, before you’re convinced your sample-size-of-one experience renders moot the whole point, or illustrates a universal fact applicable to all, take just a moment and do some homework to verify your facts.

I have never seen failures of electrolytic or MLCC capacitors that resulted in a short.

So because you have never seen something happen, it can't happen? Really?

The fact you have never seen an electrolytic or MLCC cap fail resulting in a short just illustrates a lack of experience in the field. That is NOT a criticism - just a simple observation.

Another observation, fact, and lesson I learned many years ago about the ever-evolving world of electronics is this, "The more I learn about electronics, the more I realize there is yet to learn."

Well, I am speaking from personal experience

That's fine. But again, this is a technical support forum, please say so, and in the form of expressing your opinion or personal experience - unless it really is a universal fact. And don't assume your personal experience represents the norm. There's a very good chance it does not.

For example, I had great experiences with Windows Me. I thought it was a great OS and a decent step up from W98SE. But clearly, I was in the minority.

Now apologies to all for responding in this thread after saying I was stepping out. This time, I really am.

Happy Holidays!

 

[qxp]

So I really meant this as an open discussion thread, not just help me out with the UPS kinda thing. Happy to hear your personal experiences on a UPS related topics.

I tried posting this above but the forum merged it with a previous message and it got lost: does anyone have used a special UPS for Raspberry pi ? I used X725, link and some comments above.