Windows 12 Might be a Windows 11 24H2 Update, Still Carries AI-Centric Features

[Frank_100]

I would love to update, but it is buggy.

Windows defender has been broken for over a year.

Windows 11 cant find files on the desktop immediately after it is created.

 

[Deleted member 229121]

If all the AI crap can be shunned away like Cortana then I'll be ok enough with it I guess.

Disabling TPM was the best thing I ever did on my current build.
I am still suffering from PTSD w/ how aggressive MS was pushing 10 while I was on 7...

 

[Macro Device]

Haven’t said anything about latency, have I? Yes, on 11 when monitoring with LatencyMon the number will be higher. Yes, most often what spikes it is the ntoskrnl (and NV driver, but that’s NV issue). No, I don’t think that it even matters. Unless you get really bad latency, as in red in LMon with a warning, it’s irrelevant. I tire of explaining it to people who spend hours tweaking and making potentially harmful changes to the OS and UEFI that their latency is FINE. It’s another case of people finding a number that they think they can make lower and going all in on it needlessly. I am yet to see any evidence that this actually impacts device-to-screen latency in a meaningful way.
Tell you what - if you want as low latency as possible just build a clock-locked Sandy or Ivy system with a hollowed out Win 7 install. Won’t be good for much, but the number will be really low!

This is not what I'm talking about. Call it schizophrenia, spider sense, denial or whatnot but I really witness W11 sluggishness in real usage. I/O is just a couple millisecs slower here and there, ultimately leading to massive ongoing discomfort which gets "fight fire with petrol" vibes after using W10 on a what's supposed to be an all-around slower PC and seeing all tasks being executed just a tad faster. W11 is overbloated, overhyped and outright broken. I spent a good couple months searching for any valid reason to stay on W11. My mind is open for innovations, unorthodox software and other stuff but W11 is not just unorthodox, it's just crap.

Unless your overly specific software only runs on W11, or you're running a hybrid CPU such as i9-12900, or you have some corporate limitations, I don't see a reason why you should jump from W10 there. This "AI" thing about the upcoming Windows version only makes me sad. Not only it'll never work the way the average user wants it to, it'll murder resources for that, also probably spying on everyone.

 

[sethmatrix7]

Time to disable windows update in the registry again.

 

[67Elco]

Is there any version of Windows 11 out there that has the lowest possible bloatware and useless services, even if is a custom build version?
Seriously, I want the litest possible version if possible.

Ghost Spectre has proven to be safe and reliable.

 

[Eiji]

At this point I wouldn't be surprised to see AI in Windows 10 LTSC in a sneaky update.

 

[Onasi]

This is not what I'm talking about. Call it schizophrenia, spider sense, denial or whatnot but I really witness W11 sluggishness in real usage. I/O is just a couple millisecs slower here and there, ultimately leading to massive ongoing discomfort which gets "fight fire with petrol" vibes after using W10 on a what's supposed to be an all-around slower PC and seeing all tasks being executed just a tad faster. W11 is overbloated, overhyped and outright broken. I spent a good couple months searching for any valid reason to stay on W11. My mind is open for innovations, unorthodox software and other stuff but W11 is not just unorthodox, it's just crap.

The UI might feel slightly slower, yes, due to the fact that their new ModernUI is not actually a part of the kernel, but is rather working on top of the old UI. That’s especially noticeable with the RMB context menu that, on first use, has a very slight delay, while “Show more options” old menu is instant. Or that the new Task Manager is just a wrap around the old one and scrolling through it feels terrible since it updates at what feels like sub-60hz even on a high refresh monitor. They have been slowly improving these aspects, but not really quite fast enough. It doesn’t bother me personally too much to consider going back to 10 and losing some features of 11 that I like, like better VRR support.
None of that has anything to do with latency though, but I suppose we agree more than not really.

 

[Easo]

Every time news about Windows come out I grab a popcorn to read the comments. Distinct lack of "LINUUUXXX" this time, though.

 

[Macro Device]

“Show more options” old menu

This is another one reason why W11 is hot garbage. Wanna make things neat, MAKE THEM NEAT. This is the opposite of making clicking "Show more options" an absolute necessity every time you hit RMB on anything because there is zero useful functions on the main screen no matter what you're about to do. Luckily there's a registry workaround so you can revert everything back to sanity but I still despise this decision. It's top 1 prank went too far.

like better VRR support.

No idea how it fares on nVidia/Intel, but I've seen absolutely no difference in VRR after going back to W10 on my RX 6700 XT + adaptive-sync 4K60 display. It just... works.

 

[AusWolf]

Broken in half.

What do you mean? How do you break a program in half?

 

[chstamos]

Every time news about Windows come out I grab a popcorn to read the comments. Distinct lack of "LINUUUXXX" this time, though.

I think that's oversimplifying things a bit. When Win10 (and even more so Win7, WinXP and Win2k) came out, most comments I used to read on forums were laudatory. It's true that most people are pissed at microsoft (myself included) but it's not like we're necessarily starting off with some dogmatic "M$ is the devil" preconception. For most people, Win8 and Win11 were lousy iterations - simple as that.

 

[Eternit]

For most people, Win8 and Win11 were lousy iterations - simple as that.

But in case of Win8, they were trying to improve it. With Win10, they released beta version and for a first 2-3 years they were improving it, but later they were braking it with every update it was worse. Then Win11 has been released and now Win12 will be with mostly unwanted AI.

 

[riffraffy]

This stupid fucking bullshit right here is why I'm a Win11 refusenik. I don't want "AI", I don't need "AI", I just need to run my games and Visual Studio. Microsoft is going to have to pry Windows 10 from my cold dead hands.

Please don't hurt AIs feelings, at least until we know if we could unplug it.

 

[dyonoctis]

This is not what I'm talking about. Call it schizophrenia, spider sense, denial or whatnot but I really witness W11 sluggishness in real usage. I/O is just a couple millisecs slower here and there, ultimately leading to massive ongoing discomfort which gets "fight fire with petrol" vibes after using W10 on a what's supposed to be an all-around slower PC and seeing all tasks being executed just a tad faster. W11 is overbloated, overhyped and outright broken. I spent a good couple months searching for any valid reason to stay on W11. My mind is open for innovations, unorthodox software and other stuff but W11 is not just unorthodox, it's just crap.

Unless your overly specific software only runs on W11, or you're running a hybrid CPU such as i9-12900, or you have some corporate limitations, I don't see a reason why you should jump from W10 there. This "AI" thing about the upcoming Windows version only makes me sad. Not only it'll never work the way the average user wants it to, it'll murder resources for that, also probably spying on everyone.

IIRC, win 11 animation are actually longer by a few frames compared to win 10. So the OS might feel slower just because of that, win11 is much more fancy on that aspect, almost like macOS. You can turn them off altogether.

No idea how it fares on nVidia/Intel, but I've seen absolutely no difference in VRR after going back to W10 on my RX 6700 XT + adaptive-sync 4K60 display. It just... works.

I think that It's mostly for laptops as far I know, win 10 VRR for general usage isn't friendly on the battery, (full throttle all the time) when win 11 support dynamic VRR, so that the screen won't run at 240hz when it's not needed.

 

[Onasi]

I think that It's mostly for laptops as far I know, win 10 VRR for general usage isn't friendly on the battery, (full throttle all the time) when win 11 support dynamic VRR, so that the screen won't run at 240hz when it's not needed.
View attachment 330487

Nah, it's more that Windows now can force Flip Queue for Fullscreen games which allows you to Alt-Tab freely with VRR and also it makes Borderless Window equal to Fullscreen for VRR, so that one no longer has to rely on a hack implementation in NV CP of G-sync for Windowed.

 

[Macro Device]

IIRC, win 11 animation are actually longer by a few frames compared to win 10. So the OS might feel slower just because of that, win11 is much more fancy on that aspect, almost like macOS. You can turn them off altogether.

I turned them off by installing a more reasonable OS, namely Windows 10. No regrets whatsoever.

I think that It's mostly for laptops as far I know, win 10 VRR for general usage isn't friendly on the battery, (full throttle all the time) when win 11 support dynamic VRR, so that the screen won't run at 240hz when it's not needed.

Ah, yeah. Then it makes some sort of sense to install W11 on laptops but for me, that's obviously moot (I only own desktop PCs, my VRR monitor is 60 Hz, my secondary 1080 display is fixed 82 Hz, and electricity doesn't cost shit where I live).

 

[Easo]

But in case of Win8, they were trying to improve it. With Win10, they released beta version and for a first 2-3 years they were improving it, but later they were braking it with every update it was worse. Then Win11 has been released and now Win12 will be with mostly unwanted AI.

I almost want to bite and ask you to define worse (cause I really haven't seen it, I have some other things I dislike, but not "worse"), but I won't.

 

[natr0n]

I like a barebones experience.

 

[Eternit]

I almost want to bite and ask you to define worse (cause I really haven't seen it, I have some other things I dislike, but not "worse"), but I won't.

When they add something you dislike, they make it worse.
Just a few things I remember. They replaced Edge with Chrome with a different logo, and then added to it some annoying features. They ruined Skype. I'm quite frequently having issue when I'm calling someone it is as they are not connected, while they are and they hear the ring, they answer my call and it causes like they calling me I hear the ring, but cannot answer. They trying to force users to use Hello and Microsoft account instead just normal account with password. I'm frequently getting notifications there is an issue with my Microsoft account that needs to be fixed... how can there be an issue with something I don't have? Search got worse. Sometimes it is just stopping to respond and I have to kill its process to recover, but generally it is slower and less accurate. Then they are adding some annoying features like weather or news on the taskbar. Sometimes they install some free apps from the store I didn't asked for. And now they are threatening me to replace Mail with Outlook. WiFi connection frequently drops when a router is not connected to the internet even if it is the only connection with Connect Automatically checked.
Ah and one more thing, but it is common nowdays so not just in Windows. When they install something I haven't asked for, they usually lock the UI with the message about it and the only way to unlock it is to click "OK, got it" what if I don't get it? Sometimes they are so sarcastic they are telling me to "Enjoy it", but I do not enjoy it.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Yeah I've learned to stay far away from ms new apps.
Only ms app I use is office 2016 and 2021 pro plus "Not Subscriptionware" and some apps from win-7 os paint/ snipping tool/ notepad lol
Everything else is third party because they just f'ing work best.

 

[QUANTUMPHYSICS]

If this AI is so good, I expect it to block and destroy viruses.

I expect it to organize my porn based on view time, frequency and duration.

I expect it to somehow make me money. I should be able to give it $1000 and it invest for me till I'm a millionaire.

 

[Fonduetime]

Did they learn nothing from Windows 8?

 

[Hyderz]

Cool, it’s Microsoft saying shhhhh, windows 11 never happened and here’s 12! Look at it! It’s magnificent.

 

[ThrashZone]

Cool, it’s Microsoft saying shhhhh, windows 11 never happened and here’s 12! Look at it! It’s magnificent.

Yeah I would predict the pc requirements are going to be enforced sooner than later hehe

 

[34710ST]

No, Windows 12 is 24/2.