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Zotac GeForce RTX 2070 Super AMP Extreme

W1zzard

W1zzard

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Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
28,664 (3.74/day)
System Specs
Processor Ryzen 7 5700X
Memory 48 GB
Video Card(s) RTX 4080
Storage 2x HDD RAID 1, 3x M.2 NVMe
Display(s) 30" 2560x1600 + 19" 1280x1024
Software Windows 10 64-bit
Zotac's RTX 2070 Super AMP Extreme is priced only $10 higher than the NVIDIA Founders Edition, yet offers a much better triple-slot, triple-fan cooler and also includes an overclock out of the box. During gaming, the card stays quiet, yet manages to beat Founders Edition temperatures at the same time.

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@W1zzard Zotac seems allergic to offering the fan-stop-in-idle feature, I've always wondered if it's because they use crappy sleeve bearing fans... can you confirm?
 
Assimilator said:
@W1zzard Zotac seems allergic to offering the fan-stop-in-idle feature, I've always wondered if it's because they use crappy sleeve bearing fans... can you confirm?
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Not sure if I can follow your argument. Wouldn't fan-stop increase the lifespan of any fan?
 
So people were telling me the 5760 was beating the RTX 27 super. Yeah 1080p sometimes. How is that even relevant at that price point? And who knows why it does very good in just a few of the games? Maybe the CPU is doing more work who knows. at 1440p and 4K and see where the difference is. And don't tell me that all of a sudden 10-25 fps difference is not important. It's always been important. people can't change it just because they're raving over AMD. Especially when you play it 4K 10 frames per second makes a big difference in smoothness.
My rant: And I am just looking at things objectively here from my own perspective.
Anyone who doesn't have an RTX card will never understand how good they are.
The Navi craze is here I understand but the 5700 cards at their price point fall in a weird spot between 1080P and 1440p.
if I want a solid experience at 1440p with some decent 4K results I would definitely go with the 2070 Super hands down even for the extra hundred dollars which really isn't going to be an extra $100 when you factor in the third party Navi cards are going to have extra fans on and probably be more money than MSRP.
Regarding the 5700 at $350 I would personally go with the RTX 2060 super with the extra features. but if I was to get the RX 5700 I would definitely choose that one over the XT version and hope that AMD unlocks the card. I assume that they locked it in the first place because they can't really push much more out of it.
Lastly I wouldn't by either the 5700 or the 5700 XT if I just wanted to do 1080p gaming. $350 is just not worth 1080p gaming.
AMD needs to drop their prices even more. But that's my opinion. Then I might even consider buying one. For now though I'm happy with my RTX cards.

W1zzard said:
Not sure if I can follow your argument. Wouldn't fan-stop increase the lifespan of any fan?
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why would a stopped a fan be a selling point for a video card at this price range? I have rarely had fans fail on me. and with the RTX cards if you overclock them you have to have a minimum fan speed to avoid it overheating and causing anomalies. and there's nothing wrong with that because that's what you would normally do when you overclock. This is been shown time and time again on many tech YouTube sites. The RTX cards are very overclockable but it's always recommended to adjust the fan curve according to how you overclock it. All my RTX cards at idle or about 25c-33c. And if I turn the fan curve down all three of them we'll have no spinning fans at idle when running at stock.
Maybe I'm missing something about the stopped fan issue. If I am I am happy to learn.
 
GeorgeMan said:
No, because actually the bearings wear out more when the fan starts rather than when spinning all the time.
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Source? What's the physics behind that?
 
W1zzard said:
Not sure if I can follow your argument. Wouldn't fan-stop increase the lifespan of any fan?
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Not really. Start/stop stresses the bearing more than running constantly. But it depends on the quality of the bearing, hence the original question.

On another note, wth is everyone going 3 slots now?!? These cards don't draw more power than the cards we had a few years ago.
 
W1zzard said:
Source? What's the physics behind that?
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Because the current that flows inside the DC motor is up to 20 times higher when it starts spinning compared to when it reaches rated speed. So it's only a matter of how many times it starts/stops vs for how long it spins when comparing which way wears out the fan more.
Maybe if you don't switch off your computer and it spins constantly it'll wear out in less time.
But if you have a fan stop enabled GPU and you game for 20 minutes, then back to desktop, then game again etc and you switch off your computer when you are away, it'll wear out in far less time than if it didn't have a fan stop function.
It's up to specific DC motor design of each fan and how much current it temporarily needs to start spinning and each use case.

Actually it explains it in detail here, but in greek haha... http://eclass.opencourses.teicm.gr/eclass/modules/document/file.php/TMA112/mix_hm_05_DC_MOTORS.pdf
It's not rocket science, just things that universities teach on DC motor lessons...
 
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^^^ in general, transient regimes are more stressful for engines, no matter their type.
 
bug said:
Start/stop stresses the bearing more than running constantly
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why?

GeorgeMan said:
Because the current that flows inside the DC motor is up to 20 times higher when it starts spinning compared to when it reaches rated speed.
Click to expand...
How does current through the coils affect the bearings?

Shouldn't
Code: 
wear(t) = speed x time x roughness
?
 
Great review as always @W1zzard :) I'm glad I never bought a RTX 2xxx card considering they have done this... But at least they have kept the prices the the same as before. If they'd increased them because of them being Super, I think people would have been even more so unhappy...

Thanks to AMD for giving them a kick....
 
W1zzard said:
why?
Click to expand...
Start/stop means changing speed, aka acceleration/deceleration.

It depends on how you use the computer though. If you look at the desktop most of the time and rarely game, the fan would be off, no problem. If you game all the time, the fan would be constantly spinning and, again, no problem. But if you're a casual gamer that plays not so stressful titles, the fan would turn on, decide there's not enough load after a while, then the heat builds up, the fan is need again for a while and so on... this can quickly turn into a Sunday driver needlessly changing gears all the time.
 
W1zzard said:
the fan motor has no gears


sure, but wouldn't the average lower speed mean the bearings wear is reduced?
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No. The more acceleration/deceleration you apply, the more likely something will get pushed out of place. You can decelerate gently, but when heat builds up, you probably don't have the option to accelerate the same way.

Take a step back, re-read all that has been posted and try to understand what has been posted. It's all there. Normal working conditions are more or less a constant affair. That introduces some stress. Start/stop implies additional force, it introduces another type of stress. If you don't switch the fan on/off all the time, a fan off feature is golden; if you do, your fan will become noisy sooner rather than later.
 
GeorgeMan said:
Heat.
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There is no way any significant heat can travel from the motor coils through the air gap, to the bearings. and 1 amp for a fraction of a second = negligible temp increase in the coils themselves
 
GeorgeMan said:
No, because actually the bearings wear out more when the fan starts rather than when spinning all the time.
Click to expand...
Because of how sleeve or ball bearings work, your statement would violate the laws of thermodynamics and physics. These are fans we're talking about, not automobile engines.
 
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The only issue I can see would be FDB bearing, where it require a certain speed to bring the fluid bearing into the proper operating range.

Sleeve and ball bearing life shouldn't be affected by start stop transitions.
 
Does anyone know if there's a chance of Zotac releasing a bios update with increased power target / limit?
 
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