ZOTAC Launches The ZONE Handheld Gaming PC at Gamescom 2024

[HOkay]

I think we can agree to differ.

Certainly it's nice that there's a range of sizes on the market so if you can tolerate a real chonker of a handheld there's a product you'll enjoy using. One of the best things about competition is the variety of options available, having more options doesn't invalidate or take away any other offerings.

As for eGPUs, there's definitely a valid niche but the overlap between "casual 60fps" and what the APU in the Go can already do is a pretty narrow range. If you have the parts lying around I guess it's not dumb but if you have to buy anything it's a moot point since the window between it being of little benefit and it being more expensive than a full PC is pretty small, as far as I can see.

As for laptops, that's very different. Almost all of the eGPUs for laptops are used for laptops that don't have gaming capabilities at all when undocked. You're literally taking a laptop that's not a gaming system and turning it into one for the price of a dock and just like the discussion we're having regarding a docked Go, there are countless forum threads that have explained the issues with that for laptops too. Once you get to the point where a dock is more expensive than a superior second system, it's basically not economically viable. That doesn't stop you from doing it, you're just overpaying for what you get - expecially since higher-end GPUs in laptops are abysmal value compared to desktop GPUs in a desktop.

These gaming handhelds are already very capable gaming systems and you're trying to walk the line of making it a better one without it costing more than a superior discrete system. I'm seeing complete systems selling on ebay for $500 that are Ryzen5 5600 or Intel i5-10400 with RTX 3060 or similar. That's basically the cost of a used eGPU dock, PSU, and more powerful 3070 you'd need to even approach native 3060 performance without the bottlenecks of a TB3 connection.

Yes we're clearly not going to convince each other to fully change opinions, but having the discussion gives us both food for thought.

eGPU performance drop over native PCIe is such a complicated topic. Assuming you're using an external screen (as I'm sure you know, using the devices internal screen causes a huge performance penalty due to having to send the frames back down the cable - just saying this for anyone reading who doesn't know) then it's very generally more like a frame rate limit than a linear performance drop. So as you increase the quality settings & resolution you're paying at, you inherently bring down the frame rate which eases the pressure on that USB4/TB3 interface. So for 4k60 gaming you'll find you lose a lot less of your GPUs performance compared to 1080p@240, for example. Hopefully I'll get some time soon to really test my 4060ti 16GB in a desktop vs in an eGPU enclosure attached to the Go to get some real numbers for discussions like these, I find it a really interesting topic. It's still going to be a big ol' range though, e.g. something like between 5% to 30% performance loss depending on the resolution, game & settings. Really generalised guidance is that you'd need a tier higher GPU if using it via an eGPU enclosure. You need to go pretty far up the stack for one tier to equal the cost of a motherboard, CPU, RAM & storage. I feel the urge to sketch out some examples using a fixed budget for everything just for my own interest, but definitely not tonight!

 

[Chrispy_]

Yes we're clearly not going to convince each other to fully change opinions, but having the discussion gives us both food for thought.

eGPU performance drop over native PCIe is such a complicated topic. Assuming you're using an external screen (as I'm sure you know, using the devices internal screen causes a huge performance penalty due to having to send the frames back down the cable - just saying this for anyone reading who doesn't know) then it's very generally more like a frame rate limit than a linear performance drop. So as you increase the quality settings & resolution you're paying at, you inherently bring down the frame rate which eases the pressure on that USB4/TB3 interface. So for 4k60 gaming you'll find you lose a lot less of your GPUs performance compared to 1080p@240, for example. Hopefully I'll get some time soon to really test my 4060ti 16GB in a desktop vs in an eGPU enclosure attached to the Go to get some real numbers for discussions like these, I find it a really interesting topic. It's still going to be a big ol' range though, e.g. something like between 5% to 30% performance loss depending on the resolution, game & settings. Really generalised guidance is that you'd need a tier higher GPU if using it via an eGPU enclosure. You need to go pretty far up the stack for one tier to equal the cost of a motherboard, CPU, RAM & storage. I feel the urge to sketch out some examples using a fixed budget for everything just for my own interest, but definitely not tonight!

Yeah, if you wanted to do it with new hardware it's just a poor value proposition; Docks are expensive, a GPU worth using is expensive, PSUs capable of driving mid-to-upper range GPUs aren't exactly cheap. Even if you're not piping it out to external peripherals the cost of entry is higher than a budget gaming laptop with a 4050 or a tier-one prebuilt with a 4060 from HP, Acer etc. Those represent really bad performance/$ offerings but are still better than, say, a brand new 4060Ti in a new TB3 dock.

If you have a suitable dGPU and PSU lying around then it's an option worth tinkering with - either with a used dock off ebay or take a punt on a $150 AliExpress special. This is the approach that makes more sense, as a big investment into something with a non-upgradeable maximum of 13GB of RAM doesn't make a lot of sense (I'm not aware the APU graphics can be disabled, even using an eGPU dock and the minimum RAM reservation option for the integrated is 3GB, down from the default of 4GB dynamic/auto that will grow to 8GB on the fly if I'm not mistaken).

It's just a very niche market right now that's totally unable to justify adding the cost of an additional USB4 controller for the miniscule number of tinkerers who might want to play with a docked GPU. It's not like there's a huge amount of space in these things for additional ports and silicon!

 

[lexluthermiester]

and beyond the scope of most buyers of these handhelds.

Not really. If people could be bothered to learn how, everyone could do it.

the Xbox OS is a better fit than Desktop Windows 11

Moose muffins! I wouldn't use the XBoxOS even if they paid me. Silliest idea I've heard in a while. No effing thank you!!

handheld OS better than Windows11, but that appears to be a dead end for now.

More moose muffins!!

Ran w10 32bit on 2GB before, upped to 4GB, it for sure was smoother

64bit is no different.