TheMailMan78You mean countries that are smaller then most of our states? We have 300 million people. Apply those "high standards" to China and India and see how long they last. :laugh: Spain and Greece are rioting because they are taking away thier free stuff. Oh and FYI I'm living pretty good. I havent felt the need to riot in the street yet. lol.

Germany (Pop. of 81.8m citizens). 3rd in the world in manufactured goods, and beats the United States in almost every category. They also produce some of the worlds highest quality goods. Yes, the United States is a large place, but shouldn't a reasonably structured government scale with the population? I mean, the country in question--Japan--has a population exceeding 120m, and they have no problem keeping their government and economy running well (and if you bring up the "lost" years I will smack you) with a reasonable number of social programs and an adequate standard of living.

Spain and Greece are rioting because they listened to American coporations--Goldman Sachs to be precise. Greece basically shoveled their debt under the rug and set insane standards for themselves--retirement at 58, every citizen with a paid pension, etc. Yes, they crossed the line, but it was because their economic advisors from Goldman Sachs told them they were fine, which they clearly were not.

I also saw you complaining about the Welfare System a couple posts back--more specifically the drug testing component. It's important to realize that people on Welfare are actually less likely to use drugs. So that point is completely invalid. All the drug testing does is force people who need these benefits to front some money for a completely unnecessary test, just to get money to live mediocre lives. In the case of Florida it's even more baffling because it has saved them nothing, and Rick Scott's wife runs a chain of--wait for it--drug testing facilities. That piece of legislation has nothing to do with saving Tax Payers money, and everything to do with Rick Scott being a crooked asshole.

DannibusXContent creators wanting to be paid for the investment they made in creating the content in the first place? Shocking!

Except this has nothing to do with the actual Content Creators getting anything they deserve. Organizations like the MPAA and RIAA are supposed to be fighting for the benefit of Artists, but whenever they do get a legal victory and compensation (Limewire for instance) they give said people nothing.

I have no problem supporting content creators, but I'm not going to spend $20+ on a CD without at least knowing if I'd like the content. I go and see bands in concert when they come around, I buy albums after listening to the tracks if I like the work, and I don't think the option to acquire files illegally has changed me to someone who downloads stuff just because I can. I have downloaded many games and turned around and purchased them because the retail version had features I wanted, and I felt it was worth the investment. Deus Ex: Human Revolution for example, I never would have bought that game if I hadn't pirated it first. Same goes for Skyrim.

You can't just assume 1 download = 1 lost sale. It has been debunked billions of times. What it comes down to, is that people who don't want to buy something won't regardless, but allowing people to try your product without treating them as heartless criminals, means a lot of people who were unsure, probably will.

xenocideExcept this has nothing to do with the actual Content Creators getting anything they deserve. Organizations like the MPAA and RIAA are supposed to be fighting for the benefit of Artists, but whenever they do get a legal victory and compensation (Limewire for instance) they give said people nothing.

I have no problem supporting content creators, but I'm not going to spend $20 on a CD without at least knowing if I'd like the content. I go and see bands in concert when they come around, I buy albums after listening to the tracks if I like the work, and I don't think the option to acquire files illegally has changed me to someone who downloads stuff just because I can. I have downloaded many games and turned around and purchased them because the retail version had features I wanted, and I felt it was worth the investment. Deus Ex: Human Revolution for example, I never would have bought that game if I hadn't pirated it first. Same goes for Skyrim.

You can't just assume 1 download = 1 lost sale. It has been debunked billions of times. What it comes down to, is that people who don't want to buy something won't regardless, but allowing people to try your product without treating them as heartless criminals, means a lot of people who were unsure, probably will.

You know, when I want to try something before I buy it, I'll go to iTunes, listen to a soundbite from some songs from the artist that created it. If theres a movie or a TV show I want to watch, I'll look around the internet for a trailer or some reviews. If there's a video game that piques my interest, I'll try a demo of it. If there's no demo, I'll rent it if I can. If there's no demo available, I'll wait for Steam to put it on sale so cheap it's worth losing the money if it's a complete pile of crap.

I'm not a pirate, I don't feel the need. And I can try before I buy just about anything without needing to put much effort or money into it.

Thats what Demonstrations were for back in the day.

xenocideGermany (Pop. of 81.8m citizens). 3rd in the world in manufactured goods, and beats the United States in almost every category. They also produce some of the worlds highest quality goods. Yes, the United States is a large place, but shouldn't a reasonably structured government scale with the population? I mean, the country in question--Japan--has a population exceeding 120m, and they have no problem keeping their government and economy running well (and if you bring up the "lost" years I will smack you) with a reasonable number of social programs and an adequate standard of living.

Spain and Greece are rioting because they listened to American coporations--Goldman Sachs to be precise. Greece basically shoveled their debt under the rug and set insane standards for themselves--retirement at 58, every citizen with a paid pension, etc. Yes, they crossed the line, but it was because their economic advisors from Goldman Sachs told them they were fine, which they clearly were not.

I also saw you complaining about the Welfare System a couple posts back--more specifically the drug testing component. It's important to realize that people on Welfare are actually less likely to use drugs. So that point is completely invalid. All the drug testing does is force people who need these benefits to front some money for a completely unnecessary test, just to get money to live mediocre lives. In the case of Florida it's even more baffling because it has saved them nothing, and Rick Scott's wife runs a chain of--wait for it--drug testing facilities. That piece of legislation has nothing to do with saving Tax Payers money, and everything to do with Rick Scott being a crooked asshole.



Except this has nothing to do with the actual Content Creators getting anything they deserve. Organizations like the MPAA and RIAA are supposed to be fighting for the benefit of Artists, but whenever they do get a legal victory and compensation (Limewire for instance) they give said people nothing.

I have no problem supporting content creators, but I'm not going to spend $20+ on a CD without at least knowing if I'd like the content. I go and see bands in concert when they come around, I buy albums after listening to the tracks if I like the work, and I don't think the option to acquire files illegally has changed me to someone who downloads stuff just because I can. I have downloaded many games and turned around and purchased them because the retail version had features I wanted, and I felt it was worth the investment. Deus Ex: Human Revolution for example, I never would have bought that game if I hadn't pirated it first. Same goes for Skyrim.

You can't just assume 1 download = 1 lost sale. It has been debunked billions of times. What it comes down to, is that people who don't want to buy something won't regardless, but allowing people to try your product without treating them as heartless criminals, means a lot of people who were unsure, probably will.

laws like this cant work. they wont be able to keep up, and most prosecution cases are dodgy.


as an example, i've had emails forwarded by my ISP saying "you downloaded X, at time Y. click here if you accept that you did this"

they actually ask you to confirm guilt, as thats what half their case is. then theres the fact that i repair PC's, you cant really control what pops up when a machine boots...

DannibusXYou know, when I want to try something before I buy it, I'll go to iTunes, listen to a soundbite from some songs from the artist that created it. If theres a movie or a TV show I want to watch, I'll look around the internet for a trailer or some reviews. If there's a video game that piques my interest, I'll try a demo of it. If there's no demo, I'll rent it if I can. If there's no demo available, I'll wait for Steam to put it on sale so cheap it's worth losing the money if it's a complete pile of crap.

I'm not a pirate, I don't feel the need. And I can try before I buy just about anything without needing to put much effort or money into it.

I try to avoid downloading things illegally, but there are a lot of situations where I cannot find something legally available. There are a few albums that pop into my head, that weren't on iTunes, weren't on Amazon, and in a lot of cases were sold out or no longer in print from the label. So what am I supposed to do? I want to support the artist, but there is no way for me to get it. I think more than anything piracy represents a problem with distribution.

There are plenty of options out there these days, but there's only so much I can get from Netflix and Hulu. I have no problem sitting through ad's or anything like that (within reason), but a lot of shows you have to jump through hoops to get access to. I love Game of Thrones, and bought the first season on Blu-Ray, but I also downloaded every episode as it came out because I didn't want to pay $60-80 a month for Cable, then $20 extra a month for HBO. $80-100 a month just to watch a handful of shows I like does not seem reasonable to me.

I wouldn't say I'm a pirate, especially not when it comes to games. Almost all the games I've played this year I either bought or were gifts. Skyrim was the last game I downloaded, and after about half an hour of playing I decided to buy it and just transfer over my save file and keep playing until it finished downloading on Steam. So was my download of said game a lost sale? It was the contrary in fact. I know not everyone does this, but any system is open to abuse, and trying to fight that instead of adressing the real problems, is a huge waste of time.

...fail

I love how people just think that by making people no do "illegal" downloading and such, they're somehow increasing their revenue or something, with the magic money that people would somehow make out of a sudden.

NO IDIOTS, IT'S EITHER THEY CUT FROM SOME OTHER SOURCE OF SPENDING, OR THEY DON'T AND LIVE A COMMERCIAL DIGITAL CONTENT-FREE LIFE. As soon as you "realistically" cut people off of commercial digital goods, payed or not, they will either go search for free alternatives or spend on buying them, WITH MONEY TAKEN FROM BUDGETS ALLOCATED TO SOMETHING ELSE, ie... OTHER INDUSTRIES SUFFER.


Edit: Not to mention, the sheer idiocy of this is, yes, please do send millions and millions of people to those soon to be overcrowded jails, you probably don't need that human workforce at all Japan, do you? Or let me rephrase that, that human CONSUMER GRUNT mass, in which case any commercial industry has to lose.

I don't know why i am replying as i know you are not going to change your opinion whatever but, i'll bite.

TheMailMan78I grew up poor. Very poor. No reason to be poor. If you can't make it then where the hell do you expect to, and when does it become an individuals responsibility and not everyones problem? Not everyone can be an astronaut. Someones gotta clean toilets. Government handouts are slavery.

How is cleaning toilets "making it"? Does doing the shittiest of shit jobs give you enough income? Are there even enough jobs for everyone in the US to work? Should everyone work for their own good? Think about Academics, charities, etc.
People are not equal, not everyone is able to achieve and be successful. Some people don;t have the opportunities, intelligence or ability to do as well as others. Life would be brighter if you actually cared about other people who aren't as able as yourself, not everything should be about oneself! I guess you don't think much of Altrusim?

TheMailMan78Yeah and that law is being fought tooth and nail here also. Its madness. Less taxes and smaller less powerful government is the only answer. Problem is people in power will never let it go. So they keep handing out entitlements to keep the masses happy. Whoever robs Peter to pay Paul can always count on Pauls vote in the election. Hell some states requested the waiver to remove the work requirement from welfare. That just set us back 40 years. Gotta keep the hand outs commin. lol

TheMailMan78I want a small less powerful government. Congratulations on thinking large centralized governments can solve your problems. I don't wanna pay taxes for ANY welfare. Corporate or Social. Also if you can't get ahead its no ones fault but your own.

First think the government should do is to disband the military, correct? After all it is the biggest socialist scam in the history of America.

The government is (meant to be) here to stand up for the rights of the people. Their only responsibility is to write laws and legislate. With no government or an extremely small one then you have anarchy or dictatorship, is this what you are advocating?

TheMailMan78Social services is slavery. People will vote for who ever give them the most stuff.

I got kicked out when I was 17 with nothing but my shirt. I now have a three bedroom house, 40 acers and three cars and three kids. Its called working smart, not just hard.

You neighbour falls on hard times. The banks screw him over and take his house. people should not have to step in to help him, right?

Again, i know none of this will change your opinion, the only thing that can change those at the far-right is a tragic event or getting screwed over and having to rely on other people themselves.

No country should be a sparta like state throwing their newborn babies off cliffs for the slightest deformity.

Back to the topic though. I agree that the threat of jail time is able to change people's behaviour. I remember you mentioning something similar happening to you in a post a long time ago and so you are proof of that.
However, you have to ask yourself, does the crime fit the punishment?

As far as I understand from the official statement, the main actions will be on Japanese made music, films and software. This can be persecuted. But if you pirate any other country stuff, you should be safe....

eidairaman1yup and for the net users there is Hulu

Nope. Hulu is like Youtube, one has to be US resident (or use a sufficiently fast US proxy) to be able to use it (well, youtube partly works without.

Musselslaws like this cant work. they wont be able to keep up, and most prosecution cases are dodgy.


as an example, i've had emails forwarded by my ISP saying "you downloaded X, at time Y. click here if you accept that you did this"

they actually ask you to confirm guilt, as thats what half their case is. then theres the fact that i repair PC's, you cant really control what pops up when a machine boots...

Tip: do not connect the client PCs to the net. Check it thoroughly for any P2P stuff before you connect it to the net for downloading (AV) updates.

silkstoneI don't know why i am replying as i know you are not going to change your opinion whatever but, i'll bite.

How is cleaning toilets "making it"? Does doing the shittiest of shit jobs give you enough income? Are there even enough jobs for everyone in the US to work? Should everyone work for their own good? Think about Academics, charities, etc.
People are not equal, not everyone is able to achieve and be successful. Some people don;t have the opportunities, intelligence or ability to do as well as others. Life would be brighter if you actually cared about other people who aren't as able as yourself, not everything should be about oneself! I guess you don't think much of Altrusim?

First think the government should do is to disband the military, correct? After all it is the biggest socialist scam in the history of America.

The government is (meant to be) here to stand up for the rights of the people. Their only responsibility is to write laws and legislate. With no government or an extremely small one then you have anarchy or dictatorship, is this what you are advocating?

You neighbour falls on hard times. The banks screw him over and take his house. people should not have to step in to help him, right?

Again, i know none of this will change your opinion, the only thing that can change those at the far-right is a tragic event or getting screwed over and having to rely on other people themselves.

No country should be a sparta like state throwing their newborn babies off cliffs for the slightest deformity.

Back to the topic though. I agree that the threat of jail time is able to change people's behaviour. I remember you mentioning something similar happening to you in a post a long time ago and so you are proof of that.
However, you have to ask yourself, does the crime fit the punishment?

You may havce a point, but it is off topic. Do not feed TMM please, no matter who's right.