No Matter how much X590 gonna cost- it will still give you better VFM then Apple's $999.99 Monitor Stand :-).

HwGeekNo Matter how much X590 gonna cost- it will still give you better VFM then Apple's $999.99 Monitor Stand :-).

Bad part is most manufacturers are putting the 'brand tax' in their products too, e.g. ROG, 'gaming', 'professional', etc. Worst part - people are still buying since it makes their e-peens larger.

There's no X590 chipset, just like there was no Z490.

zlobbyBad part is most manufacturers are putting the 'brand tax' in their products too, e.g. ROG, 'gaming', 'professional', etc. Worst part - people are still buying since it makes their e-peens larger.

Keep in mind that the sub $200 boards are four layer PCBs, then up to around $400 is six layer and above that, eight layers. So you are not just paying brand tax, as the higher-end boards also costs more to make.

TheLostSwedeThere's no X590 chipset, just like there was no Z490.



Keep in mind that the sub $200 boards are four layer PCBs, then up to around $400 is six layer and above that, eight layers. So you are not just paying brand tax, as the higher-end boards also costs more to make.

AFAIK, only the latest water-cooled ASRock X570 has 8-layer PCB. The rest are only marketed as 2oz. copper, to my knowledge.

Plus, we both know the BOM and the R&D aren't that much higher between mid/high and ultra-high end.

zlobbyAFAIK, only the latest water-cooled ASRock X570 has 8-layer PCB. The rest are only marketed as 2oz. copper, to my knowledge.

Plus, we both know the BOM and the R&D aren't that much higher between mid/high and ultra-high end.

Nah, the Gigabyte Aorus Xtremeis eight. I think the MSI X570 Godlike and Asus ROG Crosshair VIII are also eight.
The 2oz copper thing is a Gigabyte slogan, even if others most likely have it, they don't market it as such.

The BOM is a fair bit higher on these ultra-high-end boards, as they have things like 10Gbps Ethernet, which adds around $50 to the BOM, plus Wi-Fi, better audio components and even SSD expansion cards. It all adds up once the board makers put their margin on it, then the distributor and finally the reseller...

Found out that First Gen Ryzen is supported on Gigabyte's X570 board- So is it vendor dependent?
www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-MASTER-rev-10#support-cpu

HwGeekFound out that First Gen Ryzen is supported on Gigabyte's X570 board- So is it vendor dependent?
www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-MASTER-rev-10#support-cpu

When or rather where did this question pop up?

AMD officially claimed that 1st gen is not supported.

HwGeekAMD officially claimed that 1st gen is not supported.

OK....but this thread turns into a "every thing about Ryzen MBs"

fynxerReally weird that it will take that long for low and mid range motherboards to enter market.

This will seriously hamper Ryzen 3 and 5 cpu sales rest of the year for people looking for Ryzen 3000 PCIe 4.0 system on a budget.

They should have had these chipsets available this summer already to maximize the sales of Ryzen 3000 while they have a clear advantage in the market.

While doing every thing else just right this is a BIG MISS BY AMD.

Sure you can choose to go for a cheap 400 series PCIe 3.0 motherboard with Ryzen 3000 BUT most people will feel that they want PCIe 4.0 when they anyways buy a cpu that supports it.

The salvation here is if motherboard manufacturers redesign and market new motherboards that have proper support for PCIe 4.0 with 400 series chipset.

EDIT:
Can see down below people are trashing PCIe 4.0 and says it make no difference now and we could as well stick to PCIe 3.0.

With PCIe 4.0 it is enuf to allocate 8x PCIe 4.0 to the graphics card and then you can play around with the rest 12x PCIe 4.0 that is direct linked to the cpu doing SSD Raid 0 or what ever. With Intel and PCIe 3.0 this is impossible, you are basically bandwidth starved using Intel cpu and PCIe 3.0.

Well if i buy a computer now i won't upgrade again for like 5 years or more, so maybe PCIe 4.0 don't matter on day one but it could definitely matter in a couple of years or so and then i don't want to be sitting there with PCIe 3.0 when i could have had PCIe 4.0.

Really hope at lest a few price worthy X570 motherboards will turn up that doesn't kill your budget totally.

If You will use that motherbosrd for 5 years, then choose X570. Calculate how much that increased cost in $ will be split per month (divide by 60).

TheLostSwedeThere's no X590 chipset, just like there was no Z490.



Keep in mind that the sub $200 boards are four layer PCBs, then up to around $400 is six layer and above that, eight layers. So you are not just paying brand tax, as the higher-end boards also costs more to make.

Manufacturers rarely inform whether the PCB is 4, 6 or 8 layers, that I find really bad.

JB_GamerManufacturers rarely inform whether the PCB is 4, 6 or 8 layers, that I find really bad.

I'm not sure how much it really matters, as long as the board works. I'm at least not losing sleep over it.
That said, I tend to end up getting boards in the six layer price range normally.

TheLostSwedeBased on what exactly? Making a statement like that without backing it up is just silly.



PCIe 5.0 won't arrive in Intel products until 2021 and if people consider 4.0 being too much for consumers, why would anyone need 5.0?
I doubt we'll see 5.0 in any consumer products until 2022/2023. As for TR/EPYC, no, it's not going to happen until 2021 at the earliest, as AMD has no reason to accelerate their implementation just to beat Intel to a pointless goalpost.


Did you miss the news about AMD disabling this feature, due to not all board qualifying to meet the PCIe 4.0 standard?
As such, there's no official support from AMD's side for this, but we might still see the feature hanging around.

Some interesting details with regards to the X570 thermals here www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3482-amd-x570-vs-x470-x370-chipset-comparison

Every board should be able to show that value, I've hacked some boards to get some settings they didn't offer that I absolutely needed, it's not for everyone but it's possible.
I can 100% understand why AMD does not want to support it!..

A Pci-E slot has same bandwidth as a DDR4 single channel at 3200 according to buildzoid so we know how much boards with superb tracing for memory costs and how much it matters, and now it'll matter for all pci-e slots, m2 slots, to chipset.
No wonder why it's more expensive!

ImsochoboEvery board should be able to show that value, I've hacked some boards to get some settings they didn't offer that I absolutely needed, it's not for everyone but it's possible.
I can 100% understand why AMD does not want to support it!..

A Pci-E slot has same bandwidth as a DDR4 single channel at 3200 according to buildzoid so we know how much boards with superb tracing for memory costs and how much it matters, and now it'll matter for all pci-e slots, m2 slots, to chipset.
No wonder why it's more expensive!

So, which settings are not available unless hacked in? And why AMD would leave them out of the stock BIOS?

Also, how is DDR4@3200 (~25Gbps) equal to PCIe3.0 x16 (~16Gbps)?

You'd also be surprised how easy is for a knowledgeable guy with modern software to trace a physical interface on PCB. It's the testing and validation that are expensive.

GreiverBladenah AMD will do nothing ... but the partners will probably make that kind of mobo at 1000$ ... (but not a X599 ... it's a Intel mobo chip )


buuuuutttt ... we can bet a AMD 1k$ mobo plus the top of the line CPU (HEDT or not) will still be cheaper than a 9980XE ......... again ... pfeeeeewww the price of the 9980XE is almost a meme, oh well...



nonetheless ... the fixes made my day (Sun ... day ... )



kinda confused? ... X599 : intel, X570: upcoming AMD chipset (and well ... since, as i mentioned, there is no "ultra high end" X470 in the actual lineup ... a 500+ premium X570 is not too disturbing ... )

X570 has a standard pricing ... compared to X470 and in direct continuation of the X470 pricing (well ... compared to my country ) thus not "already premium" since as i mentioned once... a low end X570 is priced around a first price X470 and et cetera .... i fail to see where is "OOOOHHHH THE HORROR PRICING!!!" aside the "ultra high end" mobo that didn't exist in the X470 lineup but that have a logical raise in price compared to the rest of the lineup ...

making mountains out of molehills ... i guess ...

I see many young fellas here hyped for the 3950x and how it trumps Intel etc

Mind you, 16c/32t on DUAL CHANNEL memory will be a bottleneck fest on a lot of applications. Not all of them tho.

You read it here first.

zlobbySo, which settings are not available unless hacked in? And why AMD would leave them out of the stock BIOS?

Also, how is DDR4@3200 (~25Gbps) equal to PCIe3.0 x16 (~16Gbps)?

You'd also be surprised how easy is for a knowledgeable guy with modern software to trace a physical interface on PCB. It's the testing and validation that are expensive.

PCI-E 4.0 has badwidth of 31.5 GB/s for a 16X slot, same as a DIMM slot for DDR4 3200.

Manu_PTI see many young fellas here

it will still be cheaper than Intel ... even with the new upcoming one that will "dominate" AMD
and it's not the 3950x that trump Intel ... actually ;)

sooo what's the point? oh btw ... young? that's rich coming from someone who is 10yrs younger :p

don't worry i intend to take a X470 and a R7 3700x/R5 3600x which will still be a better value for the money than the upcoming line from Intel ... i guess i am just fed up that they did f'ck up the OC via M$ update and disabled any OC stability on my 6600K and also all their issues with the meltdown spectre et cetera which once the mitigation put in place lowered their ipc to what it was really, so, then their vulnerability came from tricks that made them faster? that's even richer... compromise on security to make them faster and so they can put up a outrageous pricing (granted more by blind customer loyalty than performances gap in reality ) is really awesome ...

TheLostSwedeWhat does the chipset have to do with performance? It's simply a PCIe and peripheral connectivity bridge chip.

The motherboard design might be improved slightly to allow for better memory performance past a certain point, but that's the only thing I can think of, beyond PCIe 4.0 support.

So,

• I mentioned memory performance as a potential area that differentiates B550 from B450
• you then ask me what B550 will have to do with performance
• you then proceed to cite memory performance as a potential area of improvement

Do you see the humor here?

Until we know for certain that B550 won't be important to getting full performance out of Ryzen 3000 (aside from PCI-e 4 which isn't relevant since it's restricted to the top tier chipset) then people shouldn't make proclamations about how irrelevant B550 is. That was what I was trying to get across.

• Motherboard quality may need to be higher in B550 to guarantee 3200 out of the box with broad compatibility, in a manner similar to the way PCI-e 4 requires more layers apparently.
• BIOS updates may be more forthcoming for B550 to get better memory performance at speeds beyond 3200, and with better timings and compatibility.
• B die being EOL may impact increase the importance of board and BIOS quality.

One way to trick one's way into supporting higher RAM frequencies is to have the board automatically loosen some lesser-known settings a whole lot. That kind of flabby approach is likely to be discovered by serious enthusiast reviewers.

Top top things off, I read that some B350 boards may never get 3000 series support. Perhaps that has changed but an earlier article I read suggested that only the "more popular" boards would get the update. And, many boards may only get beta BIOS support. Many are not happy installing a beta BIOS.

So, the consumers are to expect to buy an new board with AM4 socket in the Q1 of 2020 when the AM4 chips will stop rolling at the end of 2020 (7+nm)?
Betting on a socket at the end of his life?!

madness777Gigabyte B450M DS3H already has a Gen4 option in the BIOS. It's a 70€ motherboard.

which bios version is that? i've started collecting them in case the pre-1.0 AGESA ones "mysteriously disappear"

HwGeekFound out that First Gen Ryzen is supported on Gigabyte's X570 board- So is it vendor dependent?
www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-MASTER-rev-10#support-cpu

more likely a mis-paste. i think i saw a gigabyte rep on reddit saying that they'd correct stuff like that. that's how i look at it unless there's an official announcement from the manufacturer or someone analyzes the BIOS bin

As someone coming from 7th Gen. Intel going with a 400 series board is a hassle I'd rather not deal with since I don't have a CPU to update the bios (I'm aware they will send you one but that is the hassle I meant) and is essentially what is stopping me from upgrading at this time. By the time AMD releases B550, Intel will probably have something better out or right around the corner stopping me from jumping from going with AMD 3000 series and a B550.

littleappletreeAs someone coming from 7th Gen. Intel going with a 400 series board is a hassle I'd rather not deal with since I don't have a CPU to update the bios (I'm aware they will send you one but that is the hassle I meant) and is essentially what is stopping me from upgrading at this time. By the time AMD releases B550, Intel will probably have something better out or right around the corner stopping me from jumping from going with AMD 3000 series and a B550.

And that's the beauty of it! Nobody is forcing anybody to buy this brand or that.

zlobbyAnd that's the beauty of it! Nobody is forcing anybody to buy this brand or that.

True but that's just bad business from AMD, any difficulty with point of entry to your line up is an issue. Alternatively Motherboard manufacturers could start shipping 400 series boards Ryzen 3000 ready, but until I see that it's a bummer that it exist.

littleappletreeTrue but that's just bad business from AMD, any difficulty with point of entry to your line up is an issue. Alternatively Motherboard manufacturers could start shipping 400 series boards Ryzen 3000 ready, but until I see that it's a bummer that it exist.

You know that some retailers are able to flash the BIOS for you when you're purchasing a board, right?

littleappletreeTrue but that's just bad business from AMD, any difficulty with point of entry to your line up is an issue. Alternatively Motherboard manufacturers could start shipping 400 series boards Ryzen 3000 ready, but until I see that it's a bummer that it exist.

Intel: makes 1 socket lasts 6 months.
Everyone: praise lawd Jeezus!
AMD: makes 1 socket lasts 4 years.
Everyone: autistic screeching

I guess no matter what you do there always going to be that one guy.

ZubasaAlso people act like budget users need PCI-E 4.0, which is useful only on new NVME SSDs.
Nvme SSD is not the most budget friendly option in the first place.

I am not sure where you are living, but NVMe SSD's are killing SATA SSD's, they are cheap, and the speed is 2x faster as minimum that NVMe has, 1GB at least of reading and writing for around 50-80 Euro's. 1-3GB(reading/writing) NVMe I can get for around 60-80 Euro's with 240GB - 512GB of memory. For example ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB, it has damn 3GB+ writing and reading...that's like 6-7x more of top performing SATA SSD's for the same price if not lower, costs just 80 Euro's (depending if those SSD's are or aren't MLC, since those are expensier, but if we look at TLC, then it's just about 70-100 Euro's for an SSD of 240-512GB capacity and 500-550MB reading/writing speeds, obviously NVMe is the way to go).

Personally I am looking for NVMe SSD MLC for OS, TLC can be for game storing with 512GB and 3GB reading/writing. I am planning in near future to get AORUS NVMe Gen 4 SSD, 1TB memory, and up to 5GB reading and 4GB writing speed, of course it costs quite a sum 250-300 Euro's , but much more worth than SATA SSD's, and performance is just unbelievable for such price.

The only sad thing I dislike, is that they all are, or majority are, TCL, and MCL are rare to find in this haystack of TCL's.