phanbueyWhat are you talking about -- read the thread.

Im responding to someone who said that they won't need to overclock memory at all, and Im pointing out that that lowers performance -- go fight the good fight somewhere else, im not attacking AMD.

You were replying to another poster's comment:

"So your comparing 13900k with fastest ram vs 7950x3d (which 7800x3d is faster) with slowest….. looks like across the board like for like amd is faster. "

and your reply was

"yeah if you can't use EXPO because the chips are exploding - and you're stuck at STOCK 5200; then your top speed is the stock non-expo speed."

and my reply was

"This is called an over-reaction. I've had a 7700X since launch October 2022 with EXPO enabled and zero issues. Pin pads still in perfect condition.

Your scare-mongering will age like those jumping to conclusions about the 4000 series power adapters, poorly"


Maybe you just don't remember what you just posted, but now anyone reading can see it all in one comment.

evernessinceYou were replying to another poster's comment:

"So your comparing 13900k with fastest ram vs 7950x3d (which 7800x3d is faster) with slowest….. looks like across the board like for like amd is faster. "

and your reply was

"yeah if you can't use EXPO because the chips are exploding - and you're stuck at STOCK 5200; then your top speed is the stock non-expo speed."

and my reply was

"This is called an over-reaction. I've had a 7700X since launch October 2022 with EXPO enabled and zero issues. Pin pads still in perfect condition.

Your scare-mongering will age like those jumping to conclusions about the 4000 series power adapters, poorly"


Maybe you just don't remember what you just posted, but now anyone reading can see it all in one comment.

My point wasn't AMD BAD INTEL GOOD MUH INTEL.

It was a response to the idea that we should just not use EXPO because it's an unnecessary feature and the x3d chip doesn't need it to be the fastest chip -- it does there's a good amount of performance there and without it, it ties - so it loses the "fastest chip" if it has to run with gimped memory -- therefore expo is important and running without it isn't a good answer to mitigate the risk.

JismAnd actually not even thinking of what could happen, because yeah 1.45v should be safe right? Soc voltage of beyond 1.3V was never considered safe. 1.2V is still in my opinion far beyond what is normal.

Mine was running at 1.245 volts on the SOC rail with EXPO enabled.

phanbueyMy point wasn't AMD BAD INTEL GOOD MUH INTEL.

It was a response to the idea that we should just not use EXPO because it's an unnecessary feature and the x3d chip doesn't need it to be the fastest chip -- it does there's a good amount of performance there and without it, it ties - so it loses the "fastest chip" if it has to run with gimped memory -- therefore expo is important and running without it isn't a good answer to mitigate the risk.

Which as I pointed out is a vast over-reaction. You do realize that you can enable EXPO and manually set the SoC voltage right?

Mind you that might not even be the issue, making any recommendations is as silly as all those people who bought aftermarket adapters for their 4000 series cards when they were running around with their heads cut off thinking their cards are going to explode. You are implying to others, with no factual basis, the same here.

evernessinceWhich as I pointed out is a vast over-reaction. You do realize that you can enable EXPO and manually set the SoC voltage right?

Mind you that might not even be the issue, making any recommendations is as silly as all those people who bought aftermarket adapters for their 4000 series cards when they were running around with their heads cut off thinking their cards are going to explode. You are implying to others, with no factual basis, the same here.

I do know this, again I was responding to a comment made prior to that:

HyderzWell the the overclock tests show you shouldn’t really push the cpu much further, also the x3d is already a blazing fast cpu beating out the 13900k/ks in gaming.

So yeah--- im not making recommendations, I'm stating that EXPO is necessary, which is a fact. I illustrated this fact by showing performance loss, and if you were to run bone stock to avoid auto SOC voltage you would lose performance.

It being SOC or EXPO doesn't make sense -- those bios settings have been around the entire time, nor would they override the OVP/Thermal protection of the processor. Something I also said earlier in the thread... But there's now a whole host of people that think "Oh well they overclocked their processors by using EXPO, so it's their fault" or "You don't need to OC or use EXPO anyways".

evernessinceThis is called an over-reaction. I've had a 7700X since launch October 2022 with EXPO enabled and zero issues. Pin pads still in perfect condition.

Your scare-mongering will age like those jumping to conclusions about the 4000 series power adapters, poorly

Same here but I can't deny this has me nervous.

R-T-BSame here but I can't deny this has me nervous.

Me too.

trparkyMe too.

May your pads stay fresh and unbulged brother.

R-T-BSame here but I can't deny this has me nervous.

Arris just released a video on the topic (owner of Cybernetics and one of the most talented PSU reviewers out there):


TLDW: Likely a rare issue, RMA rates of 7000 series processors are actually lower then that of the 5000 series.

Gigabyte just pulled F5a version for my board. I wonder if that means that they have a new version coming soon and that possibly this is an AGESA bug.

Well done. Also saw a BIOSTAR update pass by already. But yeah... storm in teacup?

Vile voltage?

Sorry guys it would be an rare issue but i dont want spend for the cheapest x3d with memory and Mainboard about 800$ to get this issue.

Im not the Beta tester for about 800$ payment, if im beta tester they should give me money.


Are u totally stupid, i work for money and not being an member of my company.:roll:
(But im sure many users or let em name Fanboys would work for nothing than an bed and some bread cause its theyr Company)

evernessinceRMA rates of 7000 series processors are actually lower then that of the 5000 series

Ofc they would be. The 5xxx series has been out now for how long? And is/was an extremely popular system. Don't think you can say that for the 7xxx atm.

Outback BronzeOfc they would be. The 5xxx series has been out now for how long? And is/was an extremely popular system. Don't think you can say that for the 7xxx atm.

I repeat RMA rates, not total RMAs. RMA rate being the percentage of RMA'd products vs total sold. By extension, number of units sold or how long a platform has been around is irrelevant here (so long as a product has been around in the market for long enough) as RMA rate will always be proportionate to the number of units sold. If you sell more products but your defect rate remains the same, your RMA rate will remain the same. Mature platform should be getting a lower RMA rate as QA processes have had time to evolve but in this case, given that Zen 4 has lower RMA rates, it might just be that the CPU and Platform are slightly less prone to issues overall.

Outback BronzeOfc they would be. The 5xxx series has been out now for how long? And is/was an extremely popular system. Don't think you can say that for the 7xxx atm.

RMA rate and number of RMAs are different. Rate is expressed as percentage, and said rate becomes clear pretty quickly after shipping product in volume.

TumbleGeorgeVile voltage?

How dare electricity do this! Lets boycott it.

Wasn't MSI show-off with 10% pref increase in games with a new bios just 2 weeks ago?
Those old bios files are precious now, there should be an asylum to save them..

It's funny to see the other side of the coin, a limited amount of users experiencing issues, some of which at this point being called user error... Rings a bell. Let's not jump to conclusions and be toxic though right?

I have become annoyed by a few things which I only just learnt about last night.

An E-Mail seeking full clarification from AMD follows, follow the links yourself to check out what I am talking about.

Okay, when I brought my CPU and motherboard it was on the basis that I could run DDR5 memory at 6000Mhz all day long 24/7/365 but now I am being hounded with doubts which AMD is the cause of. You advertise EXPO as a feature of your systems allowing memory to run at 6000Mhz and in some cases beyond but then I get told about this on your webpage found here: www.amd.com/en/technologies/expo hidden away in the bottom left hand corner where it is TOTALLY obvious under footnotes with a triangle beside it.

"Overclocking and/or undervolting AMD processors and memory, including without limitation, altering clock frequencies / multipliers or memory timing / voltage, to operate outside of AMD’s published specifications will void any applicable AMD product warranty, even when enabled via AMD hardware and/or software. This may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer. Users assume all risks and liabilities that may arise out of overclocking and/or undervolting AMD processors, including, without limitation, failure of or damage to hardware, reduced system performance and/or data loss, corruption or vulnerability. GD-106"

Being that EXPO is a feature that is helping you sell boards - I want to know EXACTLY what you mean by the statement "outside of AMD’s published specifications" and I would like you to EXPLICITLY state what those Published Specifications are... if they are what is mentioned on your website under:
www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-9-7950x3d which states you don't support memory running above the 5200Mhz Jedec standard then I feel it only fair to point out in the bottom of this page under yet ANOTHER hidden footnotes triangle the following:

"Game testing as of 5 December, 2022, by AMD Performance Labs using the following hardware: AMD Socket AM5 Reference Motherboard with AMD Ryzen™ 9 7950X, Ryzen™ 9 7950X3D and G.Skill DDR5-6000C30 (F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5N) with AMD EXPO™; ALL SYSTEMS configured with NXZT Kraken X63, open air test bench, GeForce 4090, Windows® 11, PCIe® Resizable Base Address Register (“ReBAR”) ON, Virtualization-Based Security (VBS) OFF. All games tested at 1920x1080 with HIGH in-game preset and the chronologically newest graphics industry API available within the game’s rendering engine (e.g. Vulkan® over OpenGL™, DirectX® 12 over DirectX® 11). Desktop configurations will vary, yielding different results. Games tested: CS:GO, League of Legends, Assassin's Creed: Valhalla, Grand Theft Auto V, Hitman 3 Dubai GPU, Wolfenstein Youngblood (LabX), Hitman 3 Dubai CPU, Cyberpunk 2077, Borderlands 3, DOTA 2, Middle Earth: Shadow of War, F1 2021, Far Cry 6, Final Fantasy XIV, Warhammer: Dawn of War III, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Total War: Three Kingdoms Battle, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, Watchdogs: Legion, Riftbreaker CPU, Red Dead Redemption 2. RPL-035"

Now this shows that you are running EXPO enabled memory and are showing it as a feature so one can naturally assume that having EXPO set is not running out of "published specifications" one could also assume that taking a 7000Mhz XMP kit and running it at 6000Mhz with settings <= that of the EXPO kit would also not be outside "published specifications" unless of course you are meaning again the specification of 5200Mhz as stated on the previous URL.. in which case I feel AMD are being disingenuous and quite misleading.

You are hiding details that go against what you publicly advertise as features while excluding warranty on CPUs if you use said features. I see this as contradictory and a MASSIVE problem..

Do I want you locking things down?. No. No I do not.

Do I want you to be absolutely explicit in what you are saying? HELL YES. you need to be specific to avoid miscommunication. If you are saying that overclocking using EXPO past what you specify on your webpage for the 7950X3D will invalidate warranty then don't be wishy washy about it - damn well explain all the limitations explicitly or - you can expect users to come back at you and say - you didn't clearly and explicitly specify therefore contributory negligence.

Now please clarify your position on "AMD’s published specifications" be explicit and verbose and leave no room for any doubt.

1stFalloutboyNow please clarify your position on "AMD’s published specifications" be explicit and verbose and leave no room for any doubt.

Explicit eliminate the magic. No magic, much less sale. We can't have that, sorry. Here's a cookie for your trouble.

Sincerely,
PR guy.

Dirt ChipExplicit eliminate the magic. No magic, much less sale. We can't have that, sorry. Here's a cookie for your trouble.

Sincerely,
PR guy.

Reply won't cut it. Users can claim without the necessary facts that AMD is contributing to the failure of their equipment by not providing information pertinent to keeping it running within AMD's so called spec, in legal terms it would be called contributory negligence.

1stFalloutboyReply won't cut it. Users can claim without the necessary facts that AMD is contributing to the failure of their equipment by not providing information pertinent to keeping it running within AMD's so called spec, in legal terms it would be called contributory negligence.

We seem to have a lawyer on our side in here which if you ask me, cool. :cool:

trparkyWe seem to have a lawyer on our side in here which if you ask me, cool. :cool:

No I'm not a lawyer but I know enough to know that if you make statements about something being able to do X and then say elsewhere that in order to do X you invalidate your warranty - that is plain wrong I think under the US Magnuson act I think it is called they would be laughed out of court. In my country if you state something can do X and it turns out it can't it's called "not being fit for the purpose for which the item was purchased" as "the description of what the goods can do and what they can do differ significantly" and false advertising - all of these things are again something which is very frowned upon here.

1stFalloutboyNo I'm not a lawyer but I know enough to know that if you make statements about something being able to do X and then say elsewhere that in order to do X you invalidate your warranty - that is plain wrong I think under the US Magnuson act I think it is called they would be laughed out of court. In my country if you state something can do X and it turns out it can't it's called "not being fit for the purpose for which the item was purchased" as "the description of what the goods can do and what they can do differ significantly" and false advertising - all of these things are again something which is very frowned upon here.

I'm sure if there money to make, a law suit will come shortly. But I doubt it