NVIDIA GeForce 4XX Series Discussion

[mlee49]

Allright so whos planning on a GTX395?

ME

 

[qubit]

AndandTech on nvidia's chip supply shortage & higher prices

Here's an interesting article from AnandTech, explaining there take on the situation. Basically, they reckon that nvidia planned these shortages many months ago, knowing roughly what performance level the 5XXX series would deliver.

This allows them to keep the prices high, even in the face of the 5850, which outperforms the GTX 285 until the next generation comes out. Well, think about it: the 5 series have been out a few weeks and the GTX 285 hasn't dropped in price much, has it?

Get the whole story over at AnandTech.

 

[erocker]

Nvidia can't afford to sell their expensive cards any cheaper. It seems pretty foolish to buy a more expensive and inferior card to me. At least this keeps Nvidia cards in stock at retailers so people won't think Nvidia has disappeared or anything.

 

[qubit]

Yeah, that makes sense too.

 

[Benetanegia]

Nvidia can't afford to sell their expensive cards any cheaper. It seems pretty foolish to buy a more expensive and inferior card to me. At least this keeps Nvidia cards in stock at retailers so people won't think Nvidia has disappeared or anything.

Yes they can. No way they can sell a GTX260 for $140, but they can't sell the GTX285 for less than $300. They don't want, that's another story.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Nvidia can't afford to sell their expensive cards any cheaper. It seems pretty foolish to buy a more expensive and inferior card to me. At least this keeps Nvidia cards in stock at retailers so people won't think Nvidia has disappeared or anything.

I hope you aren't buying into the Nvidia is broke propaganda. These cards don't cost much to manufacture. They need to move enough volume to stay afloat. Its not a bad profit margin per card if they were sold for $200 at the most high end if they moved enough units. All figures on the internet that are about cost per card were BS speculation thats not rooted in reality.

Don't forget that AMD was the largest sinking ship in the tech world two years ago. They are recovering fine now. Nvidia is not doing bad.... they just need to do more for the christmas season or they will miss a big paycheck.

 

[erocker]

I hope you aren't buying into the Nvidia is broke propaganda. These cards don't cost much to manufacture. They need to move enough volume to stay afloat. Its not a bad profit margin per card if they were sold for $200 at the most high end if they moved enough units. All figures on the internet that are about cost per card were BS speculation thats not rooted in reality.

Don't forget that AMD was the largest sinking ship in the tech world two years ago. They are recovering fine now. Nvidia is not doing bad.... they just need to do more for the christmas season or they will miss a big paycheck.

No, I've never read any Nvidia is broke propaganda. I just dont' see the sense in charging more for a card that has inferior performance under the competition. They most definitely aren't broke either, though they have lost me a bit of money this year inverstment wise.. Heh, what hasn't. Believe me I know what you are talking about, I bought AMD stock right before Phenom was released.. Big mistake and now I'm in it for the (very) long haul. Nvidia needs Fermi to do well or their stock will continue it's downward progression as it has been doing for the past few months. I really don't care about what it costs Nvidia to make a card, what matters is retail price and how competitive their current product is over the competition. We could be talking about toilet paper here, it really doesn't matter what the product is. Fact of the matter is, I want good competition. I want both companies to have success, there is more than enough room in the market. Oh, if any of you like to do investments, now is a great time to buy Nvidia stock. (Pay no attention to my failings with AMD stock :/)

 

[Benetanegia]

All figures on the internet that are about cost per card were BS speculation thats not rooted in reality.

That is so true. And the funny part is that most of them that I have seen, don't even count retailer and distributor profits. They "calculate" costs, then add +10% for Nvidia, +10% for partners and it always gives them retail price. Yup, Newegg doesn't want any money after all.

Retailers take the biggest part of the cake always!

The most stupid of those comparisons that I have ever seen was the one that Demerjian did for GT200 cards ($100 for the chip + $100 for PCB + $100 for memory and different stuff). When the price cut 1-2 weeks after he did it, cards were selling on retail channels for a lot less than the cost he calculated. Meaning that Nvidia was paying (r)etailers (Newegg, bestbuy, tigerdirect...) and partners (Asus, EVGA...) in order for them to sell the cards. Yeahhh, riiiight.

What I also find funny about his cost breakdowns is that a TSMC waffer always costs $5000. No matter if it's 90nm, 65nm or 40nm. Always $5000. No matter it's January or December of same year (no price cuts?). No matter you are Nvidia (biggest customer), the smaller selling Ati* or a guy who calls them and ask for the price of a waffer.

*Ati in the last 3 years has sold 1/2 of what Nvidia, and their chips are smaller, meaning that they probably only used 1/4 of the waffers Nvidia did.

 

[QuackPot]

Will there be any new gt300 series cards under £100 next month? Just that the months wait might be worth it.

 

[qubit]

Will there be any new gt300 series cards under £100 next month? Just that the months wait might be worth it.

I doubt it, because it looks like the GT300 range might be released next yet year the way things are going.

Perhaps others know with more certainty?

Anyway, welcome to TPU.

 

[Binge]

Will there be any new gt300 series cards under £100 next month? Just that the months wait might be worth it.

No. nV even released that their low-mid rage GT300 cards will be out much later than their enthusiast/high end gamer cards.

 

[Steevo]

Retailers take the biggest part of the cake always!

QUOTE]

Selling alot of product I know this isn't the truth. The OEM takes the largest piece, and they reallocate some "funds" to certain specific companies as they see fit, or as they need to. Then you add price matrixing in, so a cheaper part costs much less to make, and you make more.


I doubt NV or ATI pay much more than $25 for a new cutting edge card for total manufacturing costs. You have multiple companies who pay their Cost of Ownership with a large contract like making PCB's from ATI, then sell the tech advancement they get to other companies as a benefit, and mark up their prices and run with that untill they get mainstream again, then it happens again.


I really can't wait to see what this new card brings, i will be very disappointed if it doesn't outperform the single GPU ATI solution by at least 25%. I need a new card and am waiting for either the 2GB version of the 5870 to drop, or this if it has enough memory. More F@H PPD and new games at fullscreen with no choppieness.

 

[Jaffakeik]

I will wait for 5870X2 or some high end GF3XX no less than that

 

[a_ump]

yea there's like 6 days till the end of this month and still no GTX 380? leaks, i still expected Nvidia to release some paper notes on specs. even inaccurate ones to at least keep the public thinking they have something. There hasn't been jack on the GT300. No rumors really either, well none of those somewhat believable ones i mean. But nvidia will spit out something eventually. i just hate waiting lol

 

[Jaffakeik]

You see nvidia is like Blizzard,they release it when its done,no early annoucments ect.

 

[Bo_Fox]

Retailers take the biggest part of the cake always!

QUOTE]

Selling alot of product I know this isn't the truth. The OEM takes the largest piece, and they reallocate some "funds" to certain specific companies as they see fit, or as they need to. Then you add price matrixing in, so a cheaper part costs much less to make, and you make more.


I doubt NV or ATI pay much more than $25 for a new cutting edge card for total manufacturing costs. You have multiple companies who pay their Cost of Ownership with a large contract like making PCB's from ATI, then sell the tech advancement they get to other companies as a benefit, and mark up their prices and run with that untill they get mainstream again, then it happens again.


I really can't wait to see what this new card brings, i will be very disappointed if it doesn't outperform the single GPU ATI solution by at least 25%. I need a new card and am waiting for either the 2GB version of the 5870 to drop, or this if it has enough memory. More F@H PPD and new games at fullscreen with no choppieness.

Except for a select few new or upcoming games that will need more than 1GB of VRAM, the biggest benefit would come from a 512-bit memory interface rather than a 256-bit memory interface. Perhaps that will be the surprise of a 2GB version, but I'm only dreaming with wishful thinking!

 

[qubit]

Except for a select few new or upcoming games that will need more than 1GB of VRAM, the biggest benefit would come from a 512-bit memory interface rather than a 256-bit memory interface. Perhaps that will be the surprise of a 2GB version, but I'm only dreaming with wishful thinking!

I would like to see a 512-bit interface, too. However, I doubt we'll see this, as it would make the chip significantly bigger (require a redesign) and the board significantly more complex, another redesign (but more likely than a new chip).

I would like to see a graphics chip (ATI or nvidia) with a 1024-bit bus, high clocks and mind-blowing performance - now that would be smokin'!!

 

[Benetanegia]

Retailers take the biggest part of the cake always!

QUOTE]

Selling alot of product I know this isn't the truth. The OEM takes the largest piece, and they reallocate some "funds" to certain specific companies as they see fit, or as they need to. Then you add price matrixing in, so a cheaper part costs much less to make, and you make more.


I doubt NV or ATI pay much more than $25 for a new cutting edge card for total manufacturing costs. You have multiple companies who pay their Cost of Ownership with a large contract like making PCB's from ATI, then sell the tech advancement they get to other companies as a benefit, and mark up their prices and run with that untill they get mainstream again, then it happens again.


I really can't wait to see what this new card brings, i will be very disappointed if it doesn't outperform the single GPU ATI solution by at least 25%. I need a new card and am waiting for either the 2GB version of the 5870 to drop, or this if it has enough memory. More F@H PPD and new games at fullscreen with no choppieness.

I worked 3 years for a retailer too and at least back then (2003-2006) and in Spain/Potugal/France what I said is true. When I said cake I meant the profits made from each card, not the profits volume. Maybe we are both right because there are some factors:

-Maybe that happens just here (I can see it coming anyway), because while production costs are the same for all the world, here the workers (taxes, storage) have to be paid in euros, which means that when a US retailer needs i.e $30 from a certain $150 product to remain operative a EU retailer needs at least 30 euros ($45).
- GPU prices have change a lot in the recent years, so what was true back then might not be true nowadays. Certainly there must have been a tought fight between the different parts to see who retained most of the previous percentage.
- In EU the final retail product has gone through much more hands than on the rest of the world.

 

[qubit]

Nvidia leaks Geforce 3xxM series

Laptop parts.

Fudzilla

 

[wolf]

They haven't got a good track record with the naming of mobile parts... It would be real nice if this were actually a Fermi derivative.

 

[phanbuey]

They haven't got a good track record with the naming of mobile parts... It would be real nice if this were actually a Fermi derivative.

thats what I was just thinking too... prolly a die shrunk gt200 in mobile version lol.

 

[qubit]

thats what I was just thinking too... prolly a die shrunk gt200 in mobile version lol.

I wouldn't put a renamed G92 past them...

 

[wolf]

thats what I was just thinking too... prolly a die shrunk gt200 in mobile version lol.

Imo shrinking GT200 would be good 40nm practice, and maybe keep the GT200's going for a few more months.

I wouldn't put a renamed G92 past them...

I would NOT be surprised to see Nvidia make a 40nm G92 ............. G92c anyone?

 

[qubit]

+1

I would NOT be surprised to see Nvidia make a 40nm G92 ............. G92c anyone?

 

[Animalpak]

Allright so whos planning on a GTX395?

ME

If they do will be mine at day one