NVIDIA GeForce 4XX Series Discussion

[Gabkicks]

sofar, all the websites are giving the same details and pics/ graphics. I want to see power consumpion and price info, as well as maybe some real benchmark comparisons to 58xx ATi cards.

Are nvidia going to make me regret buying a 5850 for $259?

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

i got 2 5850s for $259 theres no way nvidia can make me regret buying them my 4870x2 died i got a full refund and got those 2 gpus unless nivida takes 5k cards in trade and hands me a gtx 380 for free i dont see any regret in the forseeable future

but i also want to see what these gt 300s can do

 

[troyrae360]

I jast wanna see what ATI has up there sleeve for when Nivida actually release the Fermi

 

[bobzilla2009]

I just want to actually see what nvidia has with fermi! ^^
2 x gtx285 performance seems a little hopeful imo, but it is definitely feasible

BUT if the 2x performance is only in dx9 games, then nvidia have lost me. The only benchmarks worth a damn to me when fermi lands will be heaven, dirt2, avp and any other dx11 title. Fermi needs to do dx11 well, dx9 games won't get much more demanding, and the hd5870 happily churns out high frames without even using over 50% it's potential. So dx11 performance is the only thing i'm interested in.

Judging by the 'reveal' videos of far cry 2 performance, it would seem that the gtx3xx that will come out will definitely be slower than a hd5870 cfx config. So if the gtx380 does come out at a decent price, and amd respond by dropping prices a huge amount (remember, ATi have been able to sell the hd5 series at a pretty high price for 4-5 months already, they've filled up on the high-price consumer buffet), it could be that two hd5870's will be faster and maybe even cheaper! especially if nvidia release at around £400, and ati drop to around £200 or less with the hd5870 (very likely).

From a technical standpoint, i'm sure that the nvidia card really will deliver, but i don't think nvidia will do very well in the pricing war this generation.

 

[Benetanegia]

games will have options to scale tessellation example AvP will allow you to set tessellation at off low medium and high so as to provide better scalability

Yes, but my point is that they have to put that tesselation on top of the normal detail we have today and the resulting geometry will be much more detailed. If it's not, then tesselation has been used in vain, rendering it into a pointless feature. I consider the tesselation in Dirt2 as being the equivalent to that low setting you mention and the one in Heaven as Medium/High. Anything less would be pointless IMO.

 

[HalfAHertz]

Yes, but my point is that they have to put that tesselation on top of the normal detail we have today and the resulting geometry will be much more detailed. If it's not, then tesselation has been used in vain, rendering it into a pointless feature. I consider the tesselation in Dirt2 as being the equivalent to that low setting you mention and the one in Heaven as Medium/High. Anything less would be pointless IMO.

That's the price of compatability unfortunatelly. Facts are probably 50% of the market still uses Dx9 Hardware (not talking about consoles here, just PCs)

 

[Benetanegia]

That's the price of compatability unfortunatelly. Facts are probably 50% of the market still uses Dx9 Hardware (not talking about consoles here, just PCs)

Yep, that's the point when it comes to games and (apart from the obvious performance issue) why I'm 100% sure that it was not doable in the past.

It's clear from Dirt2 and Heaven that even today, tesselation just doesn't work on anything except a HD5870 class or faster graphics card. It is due in part to that compatibility issue, but not entirely though, Heaven is definately lacking without tesselation, it was designed with tesselation in mind and it can't run still, because the chips can't deal with the added detail. You have created the geometry for free, but now you have to deal with that geometry and the cards just can't do it*.

After seing the new Fermi articles around the net, Fermi might be able to keep up with tesselation, but not in vain it will have 16 tesselators! And because that alone wouldn't work, as HD5xxx hints, they have put 4 triengle setup and raster engines in order to compensate for the added complexity. Until today, I thought that tesselation wouldn't be trully implementable until the next gen of cards, because only when midrange and low-end cards could handle it would it become a true part of the games. With Fermi is starting to become posible though.

*The new Nvidia slides explain this better than I could ever do. If you look at them Nvidia does tesselation 4-5x times faster than HD5870, but that is traduced to "only" 1.8x the performance on Heaven, so there's much more to tesselation thatn the ability to tesselate and create geometry.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Yep, that's the point when it comes to games and (apart from the obvious performance issue) why I'm 100% sure that it was not doable in the past.

It's clear from Dirt2 and Heaven that even today, tesselation just doesn't work on anything except a HD5870 class or faster graphics card. It is due in part to that compatibility issue, but not entirely though, Heaven is definately lacking without tesselation, it was designed with tesselation in mind and it can't run still, because the chips can't deal with the added detail. You have created the geometry for free, but now you have to deal with that geometry and the cards just can't do it*.

After seing the new Fermi articles around the net, Fermi might be able to keep up with tesselation, but not in vain it will have 16 tesselators! And because that alone wouldn't work, as HD5xxx hints, they have put 4 triengle setup and raster engines in order to compensate for the added complexity. Until today, I thought that tesselation wouldn't be trully implementable until the next gen of cards, because only when midrange and low-end cards could handle it would it become a true part of the games. With Fermi is starting to become posible though.

*The new Nvidia slides explain this better than I could ever do. If you look at them Nvidia does tesselation 4-5x times faster than HD5870, but that is traduced to "only" 1.8x the performance on Heaven, so there's much more to tesselation thatn the ability to tesselate and create geometry.

5770, 5850 and 5870 run Dirt2 and Heaven just fine. You don't "need" a 5870.

 

[Benetanegia]

5770, 5850 and 5870 run Dirt2 and Heaven just fine. You don't "need" a 5870.

Not with tesselation.

 

[Binge]

Not with tesselation.

The 5850 performs exactly the same as the 5870 +/- 1% if they are clocked similarly in Heaven.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1720729&postcount=2

 

[Mussels]

That's the price of compatability unfortunatelly. Facts are probably 50% of the market still uses Dx9 Hardware (not talking about consoles here, just PCs)

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

45% of steam users are now on DX10

considering ~10% are SM2.0 or lower, its pretty equal between DX9 and DX10 systems these days.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Not with tesselation.

Are you kidding me man? I OWN a 5850. I can run it just fine. 5770 are the same as a 4870 and them aint slow ether.

 

[Benetanegia]

The 5850 performs exactly the same as the 5870 +/- 1% if they are clocked similarly in Heaven.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1720729&postcount=2

I know that, but that's the same story as always. 95% of the users don't OC and this is even more true as you go lower in the stack. Mainstream users don't OC. Games are NEVER going to be created with OC in mind.

Are you kidding me man? I OWN a 5850. I can run it just fine. 5770 are the same as a 4870 and them aint slow ether.

Yeah depending on what your gaming requirements are the HD5850 can run it (30-50 fps), that's why I said it can, barely, but it can. The HD5770 definately can't at below 20 fps.

 

[Binge]

I know that, but that's the same story as always. 95% of the users don't OC and this is even more true as you go lower in the stack. Mainstream users don't OC. Games are NEVER going to be created with OC in mind.

You're making a statement as if the so called 95% of the users will read your post and somehow agree with your logic...

 

[Benetanegia]

You're making a statement as if the so called 95% of the users will read your post and somehow agree with your logic...

No, a definitive no, because that 95% of people will never be here to read that...

 

[Binge]

No, a definitive no, because that 95% of people will never be here to read that...

So you're saying the 5% of people who do overclock have more of a chance of seeing these posts? I'm just checking.

 

[eidairaman1]

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

45% of steam users are now on DX10

considering ~10% are SM2.0 or lower, its pretty equal between DX9 and DX10 systems these days.

THX TO WINDOWS 7, No Thanks to Vista

 

[TheMailMan78]

I know that, but that's the same story as always. 95% of the users don't OC and this is even more true as you go lower in the stack. Mainstream users don't OC. Games are NEVER going to be created with OC in mind.



Yeah depending on what your gaming requirements are the HD5850 can run it (30-50 fps), that's why I said it can, barely, but it can. The HD5770 definately can't at below 20 fps.

Just for the recored a 5770 can run the Heaven at almost 30fps and thats not OC.

THX TO WINDOWS 7, No Thanks to Vista

Did you look at the adoption rate of Windows 7? Almost 4%+ last month while XP declined almost 4%.

 

[qubit]

Charlie criticises nvidia again

Charlie's given us another famous rant about nvidia's new GPU, being unmanufacturable etc. Now, I've only read part of it at the moment, but I can imagine how it's going to go.

I have to admit that for once I'm not with Charlie on this one. Talking about how large, power hungry and unprofitable the chip is without knowing it's performance in comparative benchmarks with ATI is just blowing hot air.

I'm all for a rant against a company bullshitting its customers (with nvidia's constant renaming to make old look like new for example) but not this.

I'm gonna bookmark that article and look at it again once the official reviews are in and see how far off the mark he was (or not).

Take a chill pill Charlie.

RANT

 

[Benetanegia]

So you're saying the 5% of people who do overclock have more of a chance of seeing these posts? I'm just checking.

Exactly.

Just for the recored a 5770 can run the Heaven at almost 30fps and thats not OC.

That's false. With tesselation enabled and at a resolution that people will actually use when gaming, that's false.

Charlie's given us another famous rant about nvidia's new GPU, being unmanufacturable etc. Now, I've only read part of it at the moment, but I can imagine how it's going to go.

I have to admit that for once I'm not with Charlie on this one. Talking about how large, power hungry and unprofitable the chip is without knowing it's performance in comparative benchmarks with ATI is just blowing hot air.

I'm all for a rant against a company bullshitting its customers (with nvidia's constant renaming to make old look like new for example) but not this.

I'm gonna bookmark that article and look at it again once the official reviews are in and see how far off the mark he was (or not).

Take a chill pill Charlie.

RANT

NVIDIA'S GF100 ARCHITECTURE is falling into the same trap that G200 did

I left there, because it already fails to make a valid point. Being 25% faster than competition and mantaining a 60% market share while making way more money than your competition, Charlie? You mean that?

 

[TheMailMan78]

Exactly.



That's false. With tesselation enabled and at a resolution that people will actually use when gaming, that's false.

Is it now?

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1608039&postcount=119

And before you go off and say no one plays 1024x768 I suggest you go look at the Steam survey Mussels posted.

 

[Benetanegia]

Is it now?

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1608039&postcount=119

And before you go off and say no one plays 1024x768 I suggest you go look at the Steam survey Mussels posted.

yeah... and what about you post one WITH TESSELATION, PLEASE?

 

[Binge]

yeah... and what about you post one WITH TESSELATION, PLEASE?

You're saying the poster didn't have tessellation on? I think you'll find yourself wrong.

 

[Benetanegia]

You're saying the poster didn't have tessellation on? I think you'll find yourself wrong.

I've seen plenty of Unigine runs on HD5770s, all of them below 20 fps when tesselation enabled, I have to believe that one? Don't make me laugh...

 

[TheMailMan78]

yeah... and what about you post one WITH TESSELATION, PLEASE?

Oh you mean like this one at 34 FPS?

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1658570&postcount=151

Dude just admit your wrong. Its ok. I do it all the time.