Battlefield 3 Clubhouse

[Pestilence]

DICE.. Do us a favor and give us some BF2 maps on BC2. God i would love Wake on BC2. Would be AWESOME

 

[1Kurgan1]

DICE.. Do us a favor and give us some BF2 maps on BC2. God i would love Wake on BC2. Would be AWESOME

Wakes not a BF2 map, thats a 1942 map. But we are getting 4 maps from BF2 for free if you buy the game before it releases.

 

[GullyFoyle]

DICE.. Do us a favor and give us some BF2 maps on BC2. God i would love Wake on BC2. Would be AWESOME

Then pre-order BF3 to get the Limited Edition, which includes the return to Karkand expansion pack!
Includes remakes of Strike at Karkand, Wake, Sharqi Peninsula, and Gulf of Oman.

See details in this EA PWNED episode (@ ~5:45).

 

[Pestilence]

Then pre-order BF3 to get the Limited Edition, which includes the return to Karkand expansion pack!
Includes remakes of Strike at Karkand, Wake, Sharqi Peninsula, and Gulf of Oman.

See details in this EA PWNED episode (@ ~5:45).

Meh... It's not coming out till october. I won't order till atleast september

 

[1Kurgan1]

Another BF3 interview, this one from MSNBC.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/43732265#43732265

 

[Wrigleyvillain]

Wakes not a BF2 map, thats a 1942 map. But we are getting 4 maps from BF2 for free if you buy the game before it releases.

Originally, yes it was for 1942.

Wake Island 2007

 

[1Kurgan1]

Originally, yes it was for 1942.

Wake Island 2007

Yeah I meant originally, I personally never got into BF2 and it seems thats all people talk about sadly. So I like to try and give 1942 credit when possible, thats probably still the FPS I have enjoyed the most.

 

[Wrigleyvillain]

Just making sure you hadn't missed that it got remade for BF2 which would be entirely possible. Though it was announced as one of the BF2-map remakes for BF3.

BF3 Punkbuster confirmed

 

[EastCoasthandle]

Did anyone notice that the support guy had a medic symbol and the assualt guy has what looks like the ammo symbol?
source

 

[1Kurgan1]

Did anyone notice that the support guy had a medic symbol and the assualt guy has what looks like the ammo symbol?
source

Interesting, maybe they havent changed it yet.

 

[GullyFoyle]

Re-Dubz #3: Battlefield 3 - Dear Dice, Give us the F***ing Tools

 

[_JP_]

I mean, wasn't it obvious...?
Tools or no tools (BF2 was the only with tools BTW), modders will mod. It's in their nature. BF:1942 and BF:V didn't have mod tools, just an option in the menu that allowed to launch the mods (although BF2 had that too). The thing is, with no mod tools, mods were still made. And telling modders that the engine is too complex is like insulting their skills, IMO.

 

[1Kurgan1]

Tools or no tools (BF2 was the only with tools BTW), modders will mod. It's in their nature. BF:1942 and BF:V didn't have mod tools, just an option in the menu that allowed to launch the mods (although BF2 had that too). The thing is, with no mod tools, mods were still made. And telling modders that the engine is too complex is like insulting their skills, IMO.

No it's not, it's like putting out a challenge. If that challenge isn't much I would say it's pretty obvious they are right. But I tend to agree with their opinion, anyone who would want to mod the Frostbite engine is going to need a team of people with great skills. Even with games like Fallout, some people solo mod, big mods have small teams, modding for this would require almost a professional sized team to actually make anything decent.

People are taking "too complex" as saying "you are all stupid". When it's not that, it's that yes, it is hard to mod for, but you will need a large team (almost a professional scale) to be able to make anything worth while. That is to say new maps and such, some weapon skins or sound packs of course could be achieved by a smaller team.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

but still large mod or not is that really a reason not to give them tools 1kurgan1

think about
look at

Nehrim for Oblivion an entire team with voice acting cast etc
theres the guys behind Age of Chivalry, or the 2 man development team that created Hegemony Philip of Macedon etc, theres plenty that 1 person can do and a small team of dedicated ppl can make amazing mods

another prime example is the Total War series

look at whats been done with Rome Total War, Medieval 2 Total War, and the tools the community has made for Empire, Napoleon and Shogun II, in those 3 titles we were denied the basic tools that were needed so coders within the community said FU to Creative Assembly and wrote there own tools to read and overwrite the binary files.

the teams behind total war mods tend to do everything thats needed to make a new game so i really dont see how dice can say its to complex, when in reality its not.

 

[1Kurgan1]

but still large mod or not is that really a reason not to give them tools 1kurgan1

think about
look at

Nehrim for Oblivion an entire team with voice acting cast etc
theres the guys behind Age of Chivalry, or the 2 man development team that created Hegemony Philip of Macedon etc, theres plenty that 1 person can do and a small team of dedicated ppl can make amazing mods

another prime example is the Total War series

look at whats been done with Rome Total War, Medieval 2 Total War, and the tools the community has made for Empire, Napoleon and Shogun II, in those 3 titles we were denied the basic tools that were needed so coders within the community said FU to Creative Assembly and wrote there own tools to read and overwrite the binary files.

the teams behind total war mods tend to do everything thats needed to make a new game so i really dont see how dice can say its to complex, when in reality its not.

I'm not saying it's not a reason to not give them mod tools. But comparing modding an engine that is almost a decade old to one of the better engines on the market right now, is night and day. Nehrim is great, they did a great job, but that is the size of team I am talking about to do something successful, I mean they had 56 voice actors alone. That is basically a professional sized team working without pay.

But like you said, many mod teams out there have modded many games that didn't have mod support. And if people can truly mod BF3, they will, no mod tools will not stop them. But honestly, I haven't even heard mention of a single team trying to mod BC2, with mod tools maybe some people could give some cracks at BF3. But fully destructible environments, this isn't Oblivion or like any game that has ever had mods released for it. So if people can pull it off, they will, despite tools, it's something that only time will tell.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

well thats why tools are neccesary but keeping them from users with a bit of finger pointing and talking down to them is not a good idea,

but again even without tools things can be done its just a shit ton harder

so BF3s tools might be a bit convulted but i highly doubt that if there tools were a mess and obviously so complicated theres no way they could have pumped out BC2, Vietnam, BF3 and w.e that other BF game was that didnt make it to PC but came out around the same time as BC2.

but yea same game engine same settings look at the difference in quality.
Original Rome TW

Roma Surrectum II mod team if i remember right was only 20 ppl

given tools a small mod team can do alot with a game, no mod tools these days pretty much kills any real modding attempts

but the major problem is do to compression and special model and file types and containers no mod tools means you wont see anything its why BC2 dosent really have mods, if we cant take the games models textures etc and export them drag them into a 3D app we cant really change anything no can we thats the problem now you see we have to tear apart binary containers that hold all the info replace items then reseal the containers, without the exe to launch the game flipping you the bird do to DRM, this is why mod tools are needed, its not that they are to complex, or anything even remotely close to that, its the simple fact that given time a group of ppl can and usually will do a better job then the original developer, and it does tend to make them look bad lol

good examples of games where small teams have proven to be far more effective at improving and overall adding value

BF2
Oblivion
Morrowind
Fallout 3
Fallout New Vegas
any Valve Title lol

in the end mod tools help games improve over time and offer a talent pool that companies cant normal access, locking out modding on BF3 is simply a way to maintain DLC revenue because we all already know some gun nut will model any weapon they can and have it look better and get it in game lol meaning skins and extra weapon packs wouldnt be so profitable, its a business thing, i see why there doing it, dosent mean i have to like it tho

That said i feel with Mod tools BF3 could quite possible end up staying in the top spot for best looking game for a very long time look at what tools did for the ancient Gamebryo based Bethesda games, once you mod that game it still looks good compared to other titles today, and its 5+ years old. With BF3 being one of the first games to support all modern features its something the mod community could truly learn from and create some mind blowing modifications with.

 

[1Kurgan1]

I'm not saying no mod tools makes it easy. But I'm saying, if people want to reach those files they will. You list games that mods have added a ton too, but you forget 1942 in that list (as do most people as it seem most played BF2).

When 1942 was the shooter to play, the Desert Combat mod was more popular than the game itself. There was ranked league for that mod, and that game came with no mod tools.

I don't feel mod tools and DLC are linked in anyway to be honest. As I said in the thread in the Games section, 1942 and BF2 had a lot of mods (one with mod tools, one without) and both of them had more expansions/dlc than BC2 has had.

Mod tools can add life, and they have helped Gamebryo, for the people that can even play with texture packs. Me personally, FO3 and F:NV with a 4870x2, 2x 5850, or a 6950, start tossing in texture packs (of course with ini tweaking) and they run like crazy. Looks decent, but I usually stick to lighting mods, texture packs just destroy fps in those titles. I can only imagine people tinkering with destructible buildings, and a much more complex engine. Talking about mod teams and mentioning Nehrim (probably one of the largest / best mod teams ever) or another mod team that was "only" 20 people. Those are very very few and far between, some of the largest mods for the Gamebryo games don't even have 20 man teams, and thats probably the most popular engine to mod. To mod BF3 correctly even with tools, and be on the level that Nehrim provided, the team would need to most likely be even larger (as they were using mod tools on a much more dated engine) to actually provide that polished of gameplay, and I don't even know if that large of a mod team exists in the world. I think we would be flooded with a bunch of weapon skins and basic things, but entire maps, actually done up with destruction, I really don't think we would be seeing that for a long time.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

not really the TWC forums theres usually 100-200 mods in development with teams from 5-50 ppl modding is far more prevalent then people think problem is developers THINK its small time when as many games have proven that given tools creates a longer life span for a game but you have to remember kurgan DLC is impacted by mods

why would you pay for guns or maps if the community does it better for free especially if its an online title, developers dont want the game lasting to long as it cuts into profits on newer titles, all these things come into play, and are more likely to be the reason we wont see mod tools,

simple fact is this industry thrives on new games every year and trying to pull gamers from old titles to new ones to keep the ball rolling, i mean look at BC2 its going to have a bout 1.5 years life span and BF3 will hit we already know BC2 will maintain some players but the majority will move on, its a form of forced obsolescence

 

[1Kurgan1]

I haven't ever really got into the Total War Series, so I can't speak for the sizes of those mod teams. But beyond that, I would say most teams don't break even 20 or 30 people. To have a non-paid group of people (very large group) with professional skills logging tons of time into mods just isn't something thats going to happen a lot.

Personally, if I enjoy a game, I buy the extra content. I bought Vietnam, and I honestly dislike it. But with over 500 hours into BC2, I was glad to pay for it just to try it. And I'm not disappointed it wasn't to my liking. I played the crap out of 1942 (this was when I was in highschool working on McD's and bringing home less than $200 a month and had $125 car loan payments) and I really only played the DC mod, yet I bought all of the expansions for that game as well.

Community mods are nice, but it's hard to incorporate them into the over all scheme. Lets say new weapons, when do you unlock them? Where are their stats tracked? Who's to say they are balanced? The mods for Warfare games that hit it big are the complete conversions, 1942 DC, 1942 / BF2 Forgotten Hope. Modding a MP because you are playing with others is a harder thing to keep balanced unless you have one team behind the whole deal. A single map isn't going to do a ton of good. So any decent mod for BF3 is going to require a big team, and if a big team wants to mod BF3, that is talented, they will do so regardless of mod tools. The only people getting hosed hard are solo people wanting to make skins or tweak sounds.

Of course the industry works off new games, and of course people will move to BF3. But this isn't like a new CoD, new paint on an old house. The reason to move up here is because of the massive changes coming with it. And with the amount of enjoyment I have gotten from BC2, I have no issue with that. And to be honest, not a ton of issues of a lack of mod tools. With the amount of polish and the amazing destruction in these games, I would be extremely picky with any mod I wanted anyways.

Not saying no mod tools is good. I'm just saying, their assessment on it being difficult to mod is most likely correct, it's got a lot of complex mechanics to this engine. And if a great mod team wants to mod it, no tools will not stop them.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

thats just it tho kurgan as newer tools have come out things have gotten EASIER not HARDER, thats why there comment is rather asinine its not any harder now then it was 5 years ago or 8 years ago its an excuse to not have to bother

Creative Assembly and Sega did the same thing with the total war series, in stead of finding a way to keep there DLC safe and allow modding they just made everything binary and told the community to get fucked promising mod tools every year for the last 4 years but nothing ever arrives lol, so in retro spect it dosent matter as much really but its still a nice gesture, to have that option, in reality they could have just said

we wont release mod tools because it puts the game at risk for greater hacking and issues which is a legit concern,

uh this stuffs to hard for you is not a good reason lol

from where im looking EA / DICE just dosent have the balls to say were to lazy to release are stuff to you we are to worried are competitors will steal are awesomness, and we are concerned you will make atomic weapons with are tool kit lolz

 

[1Kurgan1]

I do agree it's a blanket reason, but the first comments I seen about it were "EA thinks we are stupid". When time to produce, hacking issues, balance issues, dlc issues, are all relevant reasons. A properly made mod tool might make things easy, but a proper mod tool for the community would just take more time as well.

The reason people have modded Total War: Rome and the older titles, is because the newer ones weren't as good. To keep what they liked, but add new things they were forced to mod. BC2 was great, BF3 is adding more greatness. If they keep on a 2 - 3 year setup, I'm not really too worried. If there was mods for BC2 I I probably wouldn't have the time to digest them. Also if 2 - 3 mods become popular, it thins out the community.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

no theres more mod demand for the newer games then there are older games

the problem is that they had to lock shit out because CA and Sega are so lazy a simple unpack tool for there files allowed ppl to play there dlc since it was on the disc to begin with lol

again tools were promised for Empire and Napoleon but here we are 2 3 4 years later nothing yet lol. its the same game engine for all 3 games, they just wont release the tools because if they did so they would lose money, because the protection systems for the content they cut and then offered as DLC was already available sort of like the Dead Space 2 suits that were on disc and unlocked withing a couple days when the DLC wasnt even available yet lol, its stituations like these have have caused mod tools to get shelved, because they do cut into profits

again look at for instance, current modern 3 Total War games, map is locked so you cant add settlements or more territories you can add new regions

best mods for Empire - SHogun II have been darth mod which is just a unit and stats balance mod with a few units added using already available items

now look at Medieval 2 it had an unpacker and mod folder support, thus mods like Third Age Total War etc were released hell even Creative Assemblies own employees created mods for the game, basically it was after Sega bought CA that all the friendly support got destoryed,

my guess is Dice knows mods can do big things for a game, but EA sees it as a thread, EA is the head honcho so Dice has to suck it up, pretty much how it goes these days. Publisher gets last say in everything, kind makes me wonder why we have developers at all, EA should just call Dice EA and then publisher / developer line can dissappear since developers dont really seem to get the freedom to make the content they envision.

 

[GullyFoyle]

Battlefieldo - Battleblog #3: First Pictures of Battlelog

Spoiler

Battleblog #3: First Pictures of Battlelog
12:11 pm | by Stadler on July 14, 2011 in Battlefield 3

Well today it’s Thursday and that means it’s time for another update from the Official Battlefield Blog. This time we get our first look at the Battlelog feature in Battlefield 3. DICE has proved to us once again that they are going a step further with Battlefield 3 and I must say, Battlelog is looking pretty damn impressive so far. Especially the built in chat function. The blog posting is only on the German Battlefield page now, but hopefully the English version will be released in the next hours to come. We will keep you posted.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

it looks like facebook meets steam filled with clutter great.... more i see of this the less inclined i am to want to play.

 

[f22a4bandit]

It looks pretty snappy to me personally. I don't think it's cluttered at all, and adding the social media aspect will, I think, drive competition between friends. I think it's a nice feature.