Mantle API presentation by AMD, DICE and Oxide - AMD Summit 2013

[Frick]

Thing is it seems it's not enough you have an AMD card, now you also need an FX!

Now you're just making things up. Mantle is not the End Of Technology, but that is just wrong.


Multi-GPU single-player
CPU Intel Core i7-3970x Extreme, 12 logical cores @ 3.5 GHz
GPU 2x AMD Radeon R9 290x 4 GB
Settings Ultra 1080p 4x MSAA
OS Windows 8 64-bit
Level South China Sea
DX11 avg 13.24 ms/f (78.4 fps)
Mantle avg 8.38 ms/f (121.5 fps)


EDIT: Yeah yeah "singleplayer in a MP game!!!111! loooooool" etc etc, this just shows it works with Intel CPUs.

 

[Crap Daddy]

Now you're just making things up. Mantle is not the End Of Technology, but that is just wrong.


Multi-GPU single-player
CPU Intel Core i7-3970x Extreme, 12 logical cores @ 3.5 GHz
GPU 2x AMD Radeon R9 290x 4 GB
Settings Ultra 1080p 4x MSAA
OS Windows 8 64-bit
Level South China Sea
DX11 avg 13.24 ms/f (78.4 fps)
Mantle avg 8.38 ms/f (121.5 fps)


EDIT: Yeah yeah "singleplayer in a MP game!!!111! loooooool" etc etc, this just shows it works with Intel CPUs.

There seems something wrong without mantle because I don't believe 2x290x provide only 78 fps in single player. Only if cf is broken. A single 780ti pumps over 80.

 

[KingPing]

Command & Conquer: Generals 2

That's the only big RTS title coming up I can think of that is likely to support Mantle.

Didn't EA canceled it?

 

[Mathragh]

Well, they sure take their time for what they call "the finishing touches"(twitter).

On another note, it is kinda typical that for a technology that is supposed to mainly reduce CPU bottlenecking AMD chose a game that already is doing very well on that front to begin with. I suppose Mantle will be much more effective in engines that are either more bottlenecked to begin with, or actually try to put all that extra capability to use(like the oxide engine). However it still seems like a bit of a funny decision. The fact that the BF4 engine will be used by multiple other games was probably at least as important.

Edit: Just gave the Star Swarm Demo a try on D3D settings, the loading screen caused some coils to whine for me for the first time evar! Its also awesome to see my CPU utilisation dropping from 50%+ to sub 25% when going from looking away from the swarm to getting as many units in view as possible. It is also really striking to see these parameters closely follow the batch count.
Also, for people wondering what is with the blurryness: they use something called "Temporal AA", which basically does exactly what it sounds like it does, as maybe quadruples the draw calls. Without it, even my CPU(albeit overclocked) atleast doesnt totally grind to a halt when all units are in full view in D3D mode.
Apparently their engine was already so efficient(i mean 4k+ units is quite impressive) that they had to add an extra performance breaker to really grind systems to a halt, which then can be alleviated again by mantle.
Awesome demo anyhow.

 

[15th Warlock]

Thief is gonna support mantle too right?

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I remember an AMD rep saying that with mantle the 290x will dwarf the Titan. How things change in a few months. Nevertheless we should wait for some real benchies. Thing is it seems it's not enough you have an AMD card, now you also need an FX!

Done yall should have been listening

 

[BiggieShady]

You could say AMD has continued to be AMD with a launch that offers hope but really just doesn't live up the hype train.

AMD did push the hype all the way to the end user, when at this point only engine developers should be hyped about Mantle. The project may have incredible progress over the next years, but the end user will have the impression it delivered late and promised more than it delivered. 3 months ago they marketed their GPUs with support for their API that wasn't available at a time and today exist as a very early beta ... buy it and you will get benefits from all games that might be built using it ... you never know I hate to do car analogy, but it is like marketing a car today that can use alternative fuel once that alternative fuel research is completed and there are new fuel pumps all over the country.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Didn't EA canceled it?

Not canceled, just in development limbo. It seems EA can't keep a development studio open long enough to make it.

 

[RoutedScripter]

Then again BF4 is not the best choice for Mantle anyway. an RTS would have made more sense.

Indeed. But, old news, I knew that before any of the Mantle guys even talked about that.

The Star Swarm benchmark is interesting but its not a game.

Story is irrelevant. this argument is not valid.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Mantle is AMD exclusive and will only be supported by developers that are willing to use it. Where as DirectX and OpenGL are available to everyone. Mantle is cool and all but it is a step backwards. The other downside to mantle is it will be used mainly on Consoles. Most consoles are using AMD this means AAA title games for PC will have poor support or no support for mantle and there will be very few select titles for PC that support it. I'm thinking like phsyx but worse. For Mantle to succeed it needs to be cross platform like OpenGL/DirectX.

 

[TheMailMan78]

So worth dealing with AMD drivers. Gonna sell my 670's ASAP. I just hope I can find some sucker that hasn't heard of Mantel yet so I can buy a jacked up MANTLE MONSTER AMD GPU ASAP!

I made such a mistake getting 670's and 144FPS when I could get an APU and Mantle and have like 900FPS!

 

[natr0n]

Imagine people arguing online and putting something down when we haven't even tried it yet. IMAGINE !!!

 

[TheMailMan78]

Imagine people arguing online and putting something down when we haven't even tried it yet. IMAGINE !!!

Its almost as bad as people praising and saying how revolutionary something is without even trying it. IMAGINE!!!!!!!

 

[the54thvoid]

Its almost as bad as people praising and saying how revolutionary something is without even trying it. IMAGINE!!!!!!!

Ah, riposte.

 

[erocker]

Imagine all the people.. Living life with green.. oooh oooh!

You may say I'm a fanboy...

But I'm not the only one.

I hope some day you can join us...

and Mantle will work and be fun...


Meh.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Imagine all the people.. Living life with green.. oooh oooh!

You may say I'm a fanboy...

But I'm not the only one.

I hope some day you can join us...

and Mantle with work and be fun...


Meh.

Ya know that guy married Yoko Ono. Personally I wouldn't trust his judgment.

 

[erocker]

He's dead Jim.

 

[TheMailMan78]

He's dead Jim.

And boom goes the dynamite.

 

[RoutedScripter]

Mantle is AMD exclusive and will only be supported by developers that are willing to use it. Where as DirectX and OpenGL are available to everyone. Mantle is cool and all but it is a step backwards. The other downside to mantle is it will be used mainly on Consoles. Most consoles are using AMD this means AAA title games for PC will have poor support or no support for mantle and there will be very few select titles for PC that support it. I'm thinking like phsyx but worse. For Mantle to succeed it needs to be cross platform like OpenGL/DirectX.

You're late to the party man!

Also, most of your post is wrong and subjective or poor conclusions.

 

[TheHunter]

So worth dealing with AMD drivers. Gonna sell my 670's ASAP. I just hope I can find some sucker that hasn't heard of Mantel yet so I can buy a jacked up MANTLE MONSTER AMD GPU ASAP!

I made such a mistake getting 670's and 144FPS when I could get an APU and Mantle and have like 900FPS!

lol typical nv fan

And you completely missed the point.


Mantle can bring so much more then just fps boost, now we're limited to ~ 10000-15000 draw calls, you see what worlds, characters, animations, physics we get.. Mediocre most of the time.. Now look at the same world enhanced with extra detail that is now limited to 30000 or even 90000 calls @ same fps. CGI gfx detail..

Its up to nvidia now to make a proper mantle driver, ps GCN is very similar to Nv fermi+ gpus so there shouldn't be any real issues.

 

[Chetkigaming]

1. Mantle is shit, few fps its nothing
2. The era of GCN ends soon.
3. Directx 12 will bring much more than this 1 game mantle shit 5% performance(WTF LOL), how thf you are really thinking this is some next gen shit? no, this is only for consoles.
4. Mantle doesn't deserve so many words at all.

 

[RoutedScripter]

^^ best troll post ever since I started follwing mantle in like september

 

[broken pixel]

Why do people find the need to bitch is beyond me. If you do not understand it or dislike it just ignore it.

Leak the driver already I want to test on my own rig.

 

[erocker]

People tend to hate, dismiss and/or get angry at what they don't understand.

 

[the54thvoid]

^^ best troll post ever since I started follwing mantle in like september

Couldn't agree more.

Why do people find the need to bitch is beyond me. If you do not understand it or dislike it just ignore it.

Juvenile loyalty and stung e-peen

People tend to hate, dismiss and/or get angry at what they don't understand.

Correct indeed.

Given the results so far I'd like to add that 10% on high end is still pretty decent. Won't persuade me to leave my overclocking friendly Titan though. I'm waiting to see the 290X Lightning but I'm not hopeful given recent incarnations...

There is a problem with Mantle though and it's not the tech and it is something people are overlooking or pointing out in slightly hysterical, emotional posts. I play BF4 a lot - way more than any other game. So it would be good if i had a GCN card for that. But... what about all the other games that don't elect to develop code for Mantle? (And don't shout out THief and Star Citizen and the handful of others, it needs saturation to change the world)

Mantle is only as useful as the games that work with it and no matter how efficient it is over DX11.x, it can't become a 'game changer' without Nvidia and Microsofts backing. I see it going one of three ways and only one is good.

1) AMD work with M/soft and Nvidia to make Mantle happen across the board. This is currently the awesome but highly unlikely option.
2) Nvidia doesn't like what it sees with Mantle's performance boost and starts to heavily invest in AAA titles and worse (like the AC franchise) starts locking out AMD cards (this will lead to number 3)
3) Mantle doesn't gain traction due to poor uptake. A few AAA titles wont help it survive. It dies quietly.

We can see early on Mantle is fantastic if you have low end CPU, GCN GPU architecture and a Mantle coded game (so you need 2 things for Mantle to work). But it's out of AMD's hands now in many ways. No matter how hard people want to say otherwise, Nvidia and Microsoft can kill it off if they choose to by effectively buying up the best games. This would be tragic for us all quite frankly.

M/Soft has pride - too much pride. Do we think it will like what it sees Mantle doing to DX11.x? Absolutely not. It can support it or fight it.
Nvidia, well, the exact same as M/soft.

If I was an arrogant son of a bitch at the head of these companies (oops, they both have them!) I would be thinking how i could kill Mantle. If i saw the light, I'd approach AMD and ask to co-operate with it.

That's where Mantle's future lies. Death or Glory, there is no middle road.