Nvidia GTX 970 problems: This isn't acceptable.

[RealNeil]

4GB of Ram with 3.5 usable? Maybe the 970 is just running a 32 Bit OS.

My God! that's it!

 

[qubit]

With the entire internet having their feelings hurt, and crying for their parents to hold them, I went ahead a bought one in a minor discount at my local retailer. After several days of intensive gaming, I am satisfied with it, and it is a nice upgrade from 660. Once again, doing the exact opposite of what internet is saying has paid off.

You're coming off as yet another NVIDIA apologist.

The "entire internet" is not "hurt" FFS. People are calling out NVIDIA for deceptive practices, which they should do.

So you've bought the card and it works. No one said it didn't and it's been said ad nauseum that its performance hasn't changed since those reviewer's tests, but there's definitely a performance problem with it, if you'd just read and understand the first post in this thread. Did you even look at it?

 

[TheGrey]

You're coming off as yet another NVIDIA apologist.

The "entire internet" is not "hurt" FFS. People are calling out NVIDIA for deceptive practices, which they should do.

So you've bought the card and it works. No one said it didn't and it's been said ad nauseum that its performance hasn't changed since those reviewer's tests, but there's definitely a performance problem with it, if you'd just read and understand the first post in this thread. Did you even look at it?

"Entire internet" is a veiled sarcasm, which is apparently lost on many. It's a commentary on how posters on tech forums assume they are the majority of consumer base, and are oblivious to the fact, that for every one of them, there are 10 000 other people that do not visit, read or care for such forums and their opinions. And before you say "we are not", do realize that the motivation behind many a forum post is ego boosting. The idea that any number of internet forum posters can meaningfully impact a multi-million company is either oblivious or arrogant. If this hate campaign has a purpose, it is to make people who bought the card feel bad. And of course, for the AMD zealots to have more weaponry and munitions for their holy fanboy war.

The "false advertisement" angle I leave to people knowledgeable of legal matters, because I for one do not pay attention to any form of advertisement, and as such I find it hard to feel outraged about it. For me, If the box said 1MB of ram with 1 ROP and 1 TMU and 1 Core, and provided the same performance, I would have bought it as well. Even so, I think there might be a lawsuit in the works, anyway? So yes, I will just continue not to pay attention to anything Intel, Nvidia, AMD, Apple etc. says.

Oh, yes, and I, personally, am here for the giggles. It's so entertaining to see how dismissive and denying people get when someone states they did things differently and are somehow satisfied with the results. Preposterous.

These thoughtful bits of me being an nVidia apologist, funny as they are, are far too predictable and I consider myself above such silly commentaries. Because ultimately, in every single pro-or-contra post, the motivation is to defend one's own decision, and validate the thought process leading to it. To do otherwise, would be to admit failure, and barely anyone is capable of doing that.

Hey, I have 2 posts now, does that make my twice as relevant now and twice as enlightening? Boy, is this post going to get censored to hell.

 

[64K]

"Entire internet" is a veiled sarcasm, which is apparently lost on many. It's a commentary on how posters on tech forums assume they are the majority of consumer base, and are oblivious to the fact, that for every one of them, there are 10 000 other people that do not visit, read or care for such forums and their opinions. And before you say "we are not", do realize that the motivation behind many a forum post is ego boosting. The idea that any number of internet forum posters can meaningfully impact a multi-million company is either oblivious or arrogant. If this hate campaign has a purpose, it is to make people who bought the card feel bad. And of course, for the AMD zealots to have more weaponry and munitions for their holy fanboy war.

The "false advertisement" angle I leave to people knowledgeable of legal matters, because I for one do not pay attention to any form of advertisement, and as such I find it hard to feel outraged about it. For me, If the box said 1MB of ram with 1 ROP and 1 TMU and 1 Core, and provided the same performance, I would have bought it as well. Even so, I think there might be a lawsuit in the works, anyway? So yes, I will just continue not to pay attention to anything Intel, Nvidia, AMD, Apple etc. says.

Oh, yes, and I, personally, am here for the giggles. It's so entertaining to see how dismissive and denying people get when someone states they did things differently and are somehow satisfied with the results. Preposterous.

These thoughtful bits of me being an nVidia apologist, funny as they are, are far too predictable and I consider myself above such silly commentaries. Because ultimately, in every single pro-or-contra post, the motivation is to defend one's own decision, and validate the thought process leading to it. To do otherwise, would be to admit failure, and barely anyone is capable of doing that.

Hey, I have 2 posts now, does that make my twice as relevant now and twice as enlightening? Boy, is this post going to get censored to hell.

I don't see why your post should get censored.

I think you drew some negative attention your way with your first post which included this comment......

"With the entire internet having their feelings hurt, and crying for their parents to hold them"

I think if you had not started your post out like that then it would have been just another person saying that they are happy with their GTX 970. I'm happy with my GTX 970 too but people have a right to voice their opinions too without being ridiculed.

 

[anubis44]

nvidia isn't gonna refund anything or offer vouchers for 980's you are dreaming
crying false adverting isn't gonna get you or anybody else anyware
can we stop making threads about this now ....

Oh, so you think this should just be swept under the rug? Just let nVidia get away with this without making good towards the customers who were essentially ripped off? You know as surely as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west that if AMD had done this, they'd be grilled alive on every tech forum, and the hate would flow like blood. What's with the double-standard?

Listen, I fucking hate nVidia. I vowed never to buy their products again after they ripped me off with my Toshiba Tecra M3 that prematurely died due to their overheating mobile graphics chips (bumpgate), and never compensated me, but as someone who was ripped off by nVidia myself, I have tremendous sympathy for those who were suckered by this dishonest company. I believe GTX970 buyers should have their cards refunded at the very least. And you telling people to stop complaining about actually being ripped off on a massive scale by a lying, thieving company who are so far ignoring the problem is only playing into their hands.

Frankly, any gamer who still buys nVidia after this is a certified moron in my book, at least until either the current management is replaced, or at the very least, until nVidia confesses they tried to cheap out to pad their profits and ripped off their own customers by using a substandard GPU design, and compensates them in a fair manner. There's a reason why AMD designs their GPUs to have disabled shader blocks without impairing the memory subsystem. It probably costs AMD more money to do this, but it's what's fair to their customers.

 

[THE_EGG]

"Entire internet" is a veiled sarcasm, which is apparently lost on many. It's a commentary on how posters on tech forums assume they are the majority of consumer base, and are oblivious to the fact, that for every one of them, there are 10 000 other people that do not visit, read or care for such forums and their opinions. And before you say "we are not", do realize that the motivation behind many a forum post is ego boosting. The idea that any number of internet forum posters can meaningfully impact a multi-million company is either oblivious or arrogant. If this hate campaign has a purpose, it is to make people who bought the card feel bad. And of course, for the AMD zealots to have more weaponry and munitions for their holy fanboy war.

Directly impact a multi-million/billion dollar company no probably not. However I'd say that these forums could be compared as a form of digital word-of-mouth. Through word-of-mouth comes the general spread of knowledge which can then go viral very quickly (including in non-digital spaces).

A success of forum blasts about faulty items made by a multi-billion dollar company would be the infamous Volkswagen DSG transmission recall that first started with the NHTSA in the US taking notice of all the complaints online about faulty transmissions in Volkswagens and began investigations. A recall occurred in 2009 and also iirc in 2011 to resolve the problems. The recall action then spread to other countries such as China and Australia by 2012/2013. This all began with single complaints to the appropriate authorities along with forum blasting about the dangerous VW DSG transmissions (more precisely the DQ200 gearbox found in lower spec VWs).

----


Now that this problem is becoming more widely known outside of the enthusiast tech community - such as lawyers becoming involved in the US - the appropriate governmental action should hopefully be undertaken by the suitable government body in each country to resolve these problems fairly (e.g. refunds/compensation along with fines for fraudulent misrepresentation for Nvidia if that is deemed illegal in the consumers' country). I am hopeful that Nvidia will provide the option of refunds but I find it unlikely due to the complicated process of manufacturers, distributors, suppliers and retailers.

It looks like some of the manufacturers have started to act; http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...s-accept-returns-of-geforce-gtx-970-adapters/

 

[anubis44]

Get one now....so you have a claim to the settlement fund down the line.


Agreed. Others have said that the R290x is a viable option now. Maybe......if you have another 120W to spare and happen to be deaf(prior to hearing the R290x cooler scream away).

Stop spreading the lie that the R9 290X is loud. I have a Gigabyte Windforce R9 290 overclocked to 1050MHz (using a Windforce R9 290 O/C bios flash) and I can't hear it at all. Check out the same cooler on an R9 290X in a review here (look at the 'Acoustics' graph):

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...3-gigabyte-r9-290x-windforce-oc-review-6.html

Or if you're too lazy to go to the link, I'll quote their response to the noise of the R9 290X:

"It is incredible to see how poised this heatsink design is. Even when coping with the slightly overclocked R9 290X core, the three fans remain nearly silent or essentially so quiet that you won’t be able to hear them over the sound of most case fans."

 

[the54thvoid]

Frankly, any gamer who still buys nVidia after this is a certified moron in my book,

So if GM200 humps the bejesus out of AMD's 380X, I shouldn't buy it if it suits my needs? Right.....

Not to say GM200 will make unholy love to the 380X, I think it could be a tight battle next round. But your comment is as illogical as a lot of the posts here. If i buy Nvidia next, it's because they offer a better card and for no other reason.

By your rational civilians should stop buying guns* (the companies often sell to 3rd world countries where arms are really unhelpful...oh, and their purpose is to fucking kill people), most of us should stop buying drugs or using helpful pharmaceuticals because most drug companies are corrupt as shit and I shouldn't watch any sports as the entire industry is rife with drug use, profiteering and match fixing.

"Do what thou will" is the way and if it causes no harm to others, it is fine.

* the right to bear arms as part of a lawful militia excepted

 

[xfia]

guns drugs and ngreedia.. geeze..

I dont even buy nv gpu's but I recommended the 970 in like 50 builds on another forum.. feel like shit about it now and mostly the sli rigs.

I thought I was recommending a great product to people but now I have no joy to help noobs with first gaming rigs...

 

[THE_EGG]

guns drugs and ngreedia.. geeze..

I dont even buy nv gpu's but I recommended the 970 in like 50 builds on another forum.. feel like shit about it now and mostly the sli rigs.

I thought I was recommending a great product to people but now I have no joy to help noobs with first gaming rigs...

I think many of us have recommended the 970 in multiple builds. We could not have known. All I hope is that something positive comes out of all this.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

guns drugs and ngreedia.. geeze..

I dont even buy nv gpu's but I recommended the 970 in like 50 builds on another forum.. feel like shit about it now and mostly the sli rigs.

I thought I was recommending a great product to people but now I have no joy to help noobs with first gaming rigs...

This is stupid. Youre speaking as if the 970s performance went from 220% down to 10% - There is NOTHING wrong with recommending 970s, they still perform amazingly well and while there are 'technical' issues that were created by design and missold to the public as something that its not, the 970 still holds its own against the competition.

This issue here is situational at best - even though all the 970s have the same problem by design, It depends if we will push the card enough memory wise by running games that load up a tonne of texture packs and stuff.

I have had NO problems with my 970s so far apart from fps tanking a bit during a zerg in GW2 but thats when there are around 30 players spamming their AoE spells and shit is flying everywhere across the screen - I dont think my V-Ram was maxed out but i will check again later - All settings set to ultra of course.


I have no problem recommending a 970 but i will make it clear about what has come to light about it, Nvidia's shenanigans and leave the client or whoever to make the decision themselves.

the main advantages of a 970 is that it runs cooler than a 290X, is uber more power efficient than a 290X and performs faster in most scenarios than the 290X apart from when youre in a situation where you need to use more than 3.5GB V-Ram

 

[xfia]

I dont think its stupid at all.. new pc gamers come to forums everyday and they deserve good advice especially when they are dropping thousands of dollars and I took a little bit of a good feeling in being someone that could help out but nv took some of that away.
anyone that looks at gaming benchmarks can tell you that not having that extra 500mb is not a deal breaker but its not that simple because a game will respond as having 4gb usable so it leads me to believe the issue will only become worse as time goes on unless they can limit vram usage to 3.5gb with the driver.
and well if they dont do every effort to block it off then it shows what they care and are very deserving of the title ngreedia.

 

[HTC]

This is stupid. Youre speaking as if the 970s performance went from 220% down to 10% - There is NOTHING wrong with recommending 970s, they still perform amazingly well and while there are 'technical' issues that were created by design and missold to the public as something that its not, the 970 still holds its own against the competition.

This issue here is situational at best - even though all the 970s have the same problem by design, It depends if we will push the card enough memory wise by running games that load up a tonne of texture packs and stuff.

I have had NO problems with my 970s so far apart from fps tanking a bit during a zerg in GW2 but thats when there are around 30 players spamming their AoE spells and shit is flying everywhere across the screen - I dont think my V-Ram was maxed out but i will check again later - All settings set to ultra of course.


I have no problem recommending a 970 but i will make it clear about what has come to light about it, Nvidia's shenanigans and leave the client or whoever to make the decision themselves.

the main advantages of a 970 is that it runs cooler than a 290X, is uber more power efficient than a 290X and performs faster in most scenarios than the 290X apart from when youre in a situation where you need to use more than 3.5GB V-Ram

The problem was that that bit was unknown and, more likely then not, many MAY HAVE recommended 2 of these in SLI for very high resolutions, which we now know will be problematic with this setup.

For other not as demanding situations, it's not bad NOW: who knows if games that have yet to be launched will get affected due to them needing more GPU resources even @ below 4K resolutions.

 

[anubis44]

That's a shame it probably means the only long term fix for these cards is a bios or driver that locks out that slow ram segment.

I suppose I'm one of the lucky ones, I got my card through OCUK and they seem to be working tooth and claw to either get a fix or get RMA's and upgrades and or refunds in credit sorted out. Just a shame Nvidia dropped the ball with this one. If the card had been advertised as 3.5GB and that ram was never even on the cards this wouldn't have happened and no one would have even batted an eye as the performance of these cards is great. With a dodgy segment it knocks resale off the cards, and means people are going to have to watch the V-ram usage like a hawk as game get more V-ram hungry.

Make no mistake. This was not a 'ball dropping' event. A ball drop is a genuine mistake. Like you didn't realize there was a problem, and then you notice it after the fact. This was not one of those. This was a getting caught trying to deliberately slip a substandard product to customers under the radar to boost profit margins with full knowledge before hand kind of event.

 

[xfia]

what this lawyers number that is handling the law suit? I need to get in on it for pain and suffering

I understand why you want to defend your gaming rig eclipse.. I feel bad for you and everyone that bought it.. gamers should be able to show off a expensive rig with pride.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I've followed all the comments since this started, and I'm pretty sure FreedomEclipse is NOT defending it. What Freedom HAS said on numerous occasions is he is happy with the performance, which is the same performance the 970 has always had.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

I dont think its stupid at all.. new pc gamers come to forums everyday and they deserve good advice especially when they are dropping thousands of dollars and I took a little bit of a good feeling in being someone that could help out but nv took some of that away.
anyone that looks at gaming benchmarks can tell you that not having that extra 500mb is not a deal breaker but its not that simple because a game will respond as having 4gb usable so it leads me to believe the issue will only become worse as time goes on unless they can limit vram usage to 3.5gb with the driver.
and well if they dont do every effort to block it off then it shows what they care and are very deserving of the title ngreedia.

Again like i said, Situational, Doesnt mean that people have to stay away from 970s altogether - you are aware of the issue, make the client aware of the issues and recommend alternatives if any - It depends on the games he or she plays, what res they will be running at, if they plan to use multi-monitor or 4K (or 5k even - its coming....) monitors for gaming. 290X obviously slays at high res and 4k setups. but not everyone has money to throw on 4k rigs and multi-monitor setups. A majority of people are still running 1080p monitors and with the gaming industry rolling in console ports the whole 3.5GB becomes a non-issue for many many people.

Im the only guy out of all my friends who has a 27" monitor and a PC more powerful than your above average file/web or gaming server - and it costs a shit tonne of money. Therefore not recommending it is a stupid idea when the issue is so situational.

the54thvoid is running 2 780Ti's that only have 3GB and he's not had any problems with running out of V-RAM. He has a system thats almost identical to my own and we've talked about V-RAM usage in BF4 and other games while I join them on their mumble server for a few games. Hes not had a single problem.

970s were missold as 4GB cards - thats bad - but providing the drivers can cap the ram usage at 3.5GB it should perform like any other GPU. Nothing will catch fire or explode

Again, you have to look at the games that are coming out, while there are games that will make use of high res textures or lots of textures etc etc, those will be few and far between as the market is dominated by console ports that wont make use of all that V-Ram let alone make use of all the horsepower a multi-threaded CPU or powerful GPU has to offer.

How can you 'predict' that it will get worse over time when you haven't even seen the changes that Nvidia have made? If you have, then Id like to borrow your Tardis and see for myself what the future holds for the people who have purchased 970s.

with the ram capped at 3.5GB Its still an awesome card and will keep performing like any other high end graphics card.

Your worries/complaints/queries/comments against recommending the 970 are unfounded.

The problem was that that bit was unknown and, more likely then not, many MAY HAVE recommended 2 of these in SLI for very high resolutions, which we now know will be problematic with this setup.

For other not as demanding situations, it's not bad NOW: who knows if games that have yet to be launched will get affected due to them needing more GPU resources even @ below 4K resolutions.

Neither of us can predict the future, If the gaming industry keeps rolling out port after console port than we wont have to worry, unless you or people plan to run console ports at 4K - everyones milage may vary.

Remember when people said 2GB was fine for 1440p gaming? Max usage for me is just a little over 3GB according to MSI Afterburner, and in the past i used 2GB 680s in SLi to run this monitor before i upgraded. I experienced a little stuttering, some fps drops here and there but nothing that made me worry about it.

I upgraded to 970s because the price was good, and it was a good time to retire my 680s so i can run this 1440p monitor properly.

 

[xfia]

yeah I went over the benchmarks and compared it to the 780ti and why the hell does it even beat it. I suspect making it 3.5gb usable would increase the performance. vram is overrated to a certain extent but with your own argument about ports is wrong since developers have access to 5gb of vram on the consoles.
I was just sharing my point of view that I had not seen shared to how someone that recommended it to a lot of people might feel.
There is nothing wrong with defending your side of a discussion and I like a little opposition because it teaches but to call someone out and say stupid..
excuse me but that is stupid and I could have said your point of view is stupid on recommending it is stupid and I could have said your point of view on vram and aaa game development is stupid but I didnt...

 

[64K]

yeah I went over the benchmarks and compared it to the 780ti and why the hell does it even beat it. I suspect making it 3.5gb usable would increase the performance. vram is overrated to a certain extent but with your own argument about ports is wrong since developers have access to 5gb of vram on the consoles.
I was just sharing my point of view that I had not seen shared to how someone that recommended it to a lot of people might feel.
There is nothing wrong with defending your side of a discussion and I like a little opposition because it teaches but to call someone out and say stupid..
excuse me but that is stupid and I could have said your point of view is stupid on recommending it is stupid and I could have said your point of view on vram and aaa game development is stupid but I didnt...

If you compare reference to reference or OC to OC then the GTX 780Ti beats the GTX 970 by a couple of % at most resolutions but they are very close.

The console developers have 5 GB to work with but some of that must be reserved for the engine to run the game I believe.

 

[HTC]

Neither of us can predict the future, If the gaming industry keeps rolling out port after console port than we wont have to worry, unless you or people plan to run console ports at 4K - everyones milage may vary.

Remember when people said 2GB was fine for 1440p gaming? Max usage for me is just a little over 3GB according to MSI Afterburner, and in the past i used 2GB 680s in SLi to run this monitor before i upgraded. I experienced a little stuttering, some fps drops here and there but nothing that made me worry about it.

I upgraded to 970s because the price was good, and it was a good time to retire my 680s so i can run this 1440p monitor properly.

There's a big difference: 2 GB was REALLY 2 GB. Here, 4 GB is actually 3.5 + 0.5 GB where, when using the last 0.5, the other 3.5 take a performance hit.

People who bought this setup (970 SLI) for the purpose of very high resolutions both now and "near future" are finding not only problems with a few games already but the "near future" is actually a bit "too near" for their liking. This is NOT because the games need more then 4 GB @ those resolutions to run properly: it's because they need to use the last 0.5 GB of a supposedly 4 GB card.

If people were told the card worked like it REALLY does, those that wanted cards for this purpose would probably get the 980 SLI or the x290 xfire rather then the 970 SLI.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

yeah I went over the benchmarks and compared it to the 780ti and why the hell does it even beat it. I suspect making it 3.5gb usable would increase the performance. vram is overrated to a certain extent but with your own argument about ports is wrong since developers have access to 5gb of vram on the consoles.
I was just sharing my point of view that I had not seen shared to how someone that recommended it to a lot of people might feel.
There is nothing wrong with defending your side of a discussion and I like a little opposition because it teaches but to call someone out and say stupid..
excuse me but that is stupid and I could have said your point of view is stupid on recommending it is stupid and I could have said your point of view on vram and aaa game development is stupid but I didnt...

Now you just sound like a spoilt child that didn't get his way and moping in the corner, mumbling under his breath about semi-unrelated things.

Having access to 5GB of V-Ram doesnt mean shit if the GPU itself lacks the power to fully utilise it - It makes as much sense as putting 10GB of V-RAM on something like a Geforce 210. Being a hardware enthusiast yourself, you should know this.

quite a lot of TVs dont even run the same resolutions as PC monitors do and most of the time its just upscaled 1080p therefore doesnt require the same amount of power to drive it - the GPU in the PS4 and XBone is roughly equivalent to a Radeon 7850/7870. One of the other ways that GPUs can get away with 'performing well' is that their frame rated is forced to run at 30fps by the game, and the game itself is 720p and upscaled to 1080p so its not 'true' 1080p so the GPU doesnt have to work as hard, Occasionally some console games are rendered. only around handful of console games are rendered at around 900p but thats still not 1080p.

 

[xfia]

If you compare reference to reference or OC to OC then the GTX 780Ti beats the GTX 970 by a couple of % at most resolutions but they are very close.

The console developers have 5 GB to work with but some of that must be reserved for the engine to run the game I believe.

its 8gb total with 3 reserved for the system.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

There's a big difference: 2 GB was REALLY 2 GB. Here, 4 GB is actually 3.5 + 0.5 GB where, when using the last 0.5, the other 3.5 take a performance hit.

People who bought this setup (970 SLI) for the purpose of very high resolutions both now and "near future" are finding not only problems with a few games already but the "near future" is actually a bit "too near" for their liking. This is NOT because the games need more then 4 GB @ those resolutions to run properly: it's because they need to use the last 0.5 GB of a supposedly 4 GB card.

If people were told the card worked like it REALLY does, those that wanted cards for this purpose would probably get the 980 SLI or the x290 xfire rather then the 970 SLI.

Well, Its a good thing that almost all major retailers are offering FULL REFUNDS. I dont see why people have to be so butthurt and anal about it when they arent losing out on anything, Im quite sure they will also refund your P&P too. Its not as if Nvidia have kicked your dog and run away with your wife. Come on now people. lets use some common sense here.

 

[xfia]

Now you just sound like a spoilt child that didn't get his way and moping in the corner, mumbling under his breath about semi-unrelated things.

Having access to 5GB of V-Ram doesnt mean shit if the GPU itself lacks the power to fully utilise it - It makes as much sense as putting 10GB of V-RAM on something like a Geforce 210. Being a hardware enthusiast yourself, you should know this.

quite a lot of TVs dont even run the same resolutions as PC monitors do and most of the time its just upscaled 1080p therefore doesnt require the same amount of power to drive it - the GPU in the PS4 and XBone is roughly equivalent to a Radeon 7850/7870. One of the other ways that GPUs can get away with 'performing well' is that their frame rated is forced to run at 30fps by the game, and the game itself is 720p and upscaled to 1080p so its not 'true' 1080p so the GPU doesnt have to work as hard, Occasionally some console games are rendered. only around handful of console games are rendered at around 900p but thats still not 1080p.

the ps4 is 900p native because it has the ram and gcn cores to do so.. most of those old articles on them have little merit.

the consoles have certainly shifted game development. do you know a 8gb 290x will get hit with over 5gb with bf4 at ultra 4k? dont mean a 980 wont keep up though.. a lot of game engines will just grab away at vram and the flaw in the 970 is horrible for this.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

the ps4 is 900p native because it has the ram and gcn cores to do so.. most of those old articles on them have little merit.

the consoles have certainly shifted game development. do you know a 8gb 290x will get hit with over 5gb with bf4 at ultra 4k? dont mean a 980 wont keep up though.. a lot of game engines will just grab away at vram and the flaw in the 970 is horrible for this.

Not quite sure but heres a graph.

a 6GB titan was benched against the 780Ti's and ram usage was still 3.1GB

here is the review

I Dont think the 970 is 'horrible' I think youre just butthurt about Nvidia letting you down after you backed the 970s so hard and recommended it to all your friends which now makes you look like a bit of a lemon because 'they all trusted you'

We've wandered far enough off topic as it is.

Dont worry, If you dont want to recommend 970s anymore, Im sure Nvidia themselves will learn to get over it after a box of kleenex or two.