Specs Don't Matter: TechPowerUp Poll on GTX 970 Controversy

[john_]

AMD in context sold the stock 290 cards that were unable to stay at their PR advertised boosts. In many cases they throttled well below 1ghz. I don't recall quite so much hate or as many posts on that misleading sales pitch.

I don't recall any articles at the press defending AMD and asking from their readers to concentrate on the card's performance. Do you? The press attacked AMD back then. The press is defending Nvidia this time. That different approach makes people react differently. Also in the case of AMD the problems with the gpu clock where spotted from the first reviews. In the case of 970 Nvidia was lying for months and we wouldn't have known about that for even more months if no one had noticed that. And what does the press do? Accepts Nvidia's explanation that even they didn't know about that.

 

[trenter]

I don't ever remember a poll getting a headline article. Who are you trying to convince?

 

[RCoon]

I for one found it pretty hilarious. All those people banging on about returning their cards and getting a refund, and lo and behold, most of them didn't bother

Also, if somebody wants to randomise their IP address just so they can vote in a poll on a random front page forum post multiple times, well, let 'em. I highly doubt anybody did however.

I'll also go ahead and note that 7000 people doesn't exactly represent the entire market of GPU buyers across the world. So, you know, don't read too much into it.

 

[Rahmat Sofyan]

Why yes Rahmat, I think I do...

/Didn't vote in the poll

Whuttttttttt...??? , have fun bro, why so serious

 

[rooivalk]

Nothing unusual on TPU

nVidia apologists vs 24/7 PMS AMD fanboys.

 

[Recus]

I answered "No plans to buy GTX 970". Next time I will remember not to be honest with a TPU poll concerning Nvidia, because in the end the poll will be used to twist reality. I should have posted "I'm returning mine" even not having a 970.

Here you go. AMD shills faking pools.

And now specs all of the sudden don't matter because NVIDIA fucked it up. If anyone else would, they'd literally eat them alive, not just make a small controversy outrage. They lied and they didn't bother to fix it in lets say a week or month. users had to point it out 4 months later. F U NVIDIA and your shitty business practices.

They are dishonest the entire time starting even with software things like PhysX where they hardcode, lockdown and block things that shouldn't be limited at all and then they act like it's our fault and that it's normal to be that way up to far more concerning things like this GTX 970 crap. I'm no fanboy of either camp, but when one side is continuously and repeatably dishonest like NVIDIA has been for several years now, I tend to buy from the other camp more. More people should think about this.

Just like efficiency doesn't matter after Nvidia become more efficient. Or big GPU die doesn't matter after rumors about R9 300 500+ mm2?

I was reading polls for a month here in Greece and I know how you can twist the meaning of a poll even while presenting it. Also see what you are doing in your post. First you downgrade my opinion "that don't correspond with your conception", then you call me stupid. How nice.

Nvidia lied about specs - return my money.
European Union lend money to Greece - we won't return debt.

 

[buggalugs]

I would take the survey with a grain of salt. There are nvidia guys here who troll every thread, talking up Nvidia and criticising AMD at every opportunity. They are like religious people spreading the word of their god. I guarantee most of them don't even own a 970.

Even when this issue first broke, these guys were saying there is no issue and Nvidia would be vindicated.

Anyone who is OK with misreporting specs is a MORON and has no credibility , morals or common decency.

 

[BlandFantasy]

The GTX970 is still the same card that got rave reviews at its launch. The problem isn't with the card, it's with the lack of clear information nvidia provided for its advertising.

 

[HumanSmoke]

I for one found it pretty hilarious. All those people banging on about returning their cards and getting a refund, and lo and behold, most of them didn't bother

That's modern life on the internet right? Can't solve a pressing issue in half a day, just move on to the next crime against humanity!

Also, if somebody wants to randomise their IP address just so they can vote in a poll on a random front page forum post multiple times, well, let 'em. I highly doubt anybody did however.

Probably the only ones who did, would be those posting for all they're worth in some modern rendition of Crusaders looking to drive the Infidel out of the Holy Lands.

Whuttttttttt...??? , have fun bro, why so serious

Whatever sunshine. If the GIF and my sig weren't enough of a clue, the last time I took the bulk of the internet seriously Netscape Navigator owned 80% market share for browsers.

 

[john_]

Here you go. AMD shills faking pools.

Yeah, I lost that chance by casting an honest vote. Damn. Next time.

Nvidia lied about specs - return my money.

Nvidia lied about specs. Oh Nvidia you are so clever. Here take more of my money.

European Union lend money to Greece - we won't return debt.

Wrong. But anyway I could only explain in Greek, and even then it would take me time. Now in English.... Not to mention that you don't really care anyway.

Didn't vote him.

 

[scorpion_amd13]

By all means condemn Nvidia but the frankly infantile responses to democratic polls from generally AMD owners is ironically a neon sign post to Red bias.
AMD in context sold the stock 290 cards that were unable to stay at their PR advertised boosts. In many cases they throttled well below 1ghz. I don't recall quite so much hate or as many posts on that misleading sales pitch.
It took custom solutions, months later to let the cards fly free.

You know, everyone and their dog knew about the behavior of AMD's R9 290/X stock cards from launch day reviews. Those who bought stock cards knew exactly what they were getting if the read the reviews, they didn't find out 4 months later. Nobody forced them to get a stock card instead of waiting for custom cooled versions. Everyone knew that stock cards tended to get toasty, just like they all knew how the cards would behave, and that it would be a helluva lot smarter to just wait a little and get a custom cooled version. That's not false advertising.

With the GTX 970, you get to find out 4 months after launch day that what you bought isn't exactly what nVidia and the reviewers everywhere and the spec-sheet said you were getting. Nobody, not from the press community, and certainly not the customers, knew anything about it until a few enthusiasts noticed something strange and looked into it. But nVidia knew. Those ROPs didn't disable themselves, after all. And they sure as hell don't just use a random number generator to divine what specs they should use for the cut-down versions of their cards.

After all, at the end of the day, do you know what matters most? You can easily get a custom cooled R9 290/290X that will exhibit none of the problems the stock versions did. But you're never going to be able to get a GTX 970 that's everything nVidia said it was at launch day.

 

[Sony Xperia S]

When i voted the majority was set on not buying the 970 or returning theirs, how did it did change so dramatically?

Indeed, I also noticed the shift. In the beginning it was normal and afterwards the nvidia employees took some serious actions to change the vote. What a shame.

 

[MustSeeMelons]

A sizable minority of 21.2 percent (1,553 votes) are unhappy with NVIDIA

This is not entirely true - I'm not returning my card or anything, but I'm still unhappy with them about this issue.

 

[the54thvoid]

I don't recall any articles at the press defending AMD and asking from their readers to concentrate on the card's performance. Do you? The press attacked AMD back then. The press is defending Nvidia this time. That different approach makes people react differently. Also in the case of AMD the problems with the gpu clock where spotted from the first reviews. In the case of 970 Nvidia was lying for months and we wouldn't have known about that for even more months if no one had noticed that. And what does the press do? Accepts Nvidia's explanation that even they didn't know about that.

The press is also attacking Nvidia. The issue lies with what was designed by the engineers and what was sold.
I believe in using facts, not rumour to support any logical discussion where I state an opinion.
Given Nvidia could be lying about the processes that led to this issue, we can't know the truth. Only Nvidia does, therefore I can't have any genuine opinion on that. All I know is the card isn't suitable for a very small % of users. As long as people are allowed to return cards, its actually okay.
Further, Nvidia should do something about the 512mb memory usage and pursue that avenue. If not, perhaps those angry enough can consult the lawyers.
Should Nvidia address this issue formally? Of course they should.
It doesn't detract from the red mist and some green, that has descended into a rabble of noise though.
The issue isn't closed and it will hurt Nvidia, hopefully they will do something but we'll have to wait and see.
As for AMD, its fair to bring them in as they have misled in the past (bulldozer cores, dysfunctional crossfire, throttling etc) but they were caught out as soon as most things released. I personally ditched AMD after my not so awesome £1000 hd7970 water cooled crossfire let down. It was just as bad for me that so much investment was broken (to my eyes) in most dx9 titles. They never fully fixed dx9 crossfire, enough time progressed that dx10 was prevalent.
Both teams are dishonest but yes, as an Nvidia owner I agree Nvidia are worse.

Anyway, I can't be bothered posting anymore because the terrible merry go round of these spurious posts with more emotion than fact are wasting my precious hours.

BTW, only solution is a sticker for all 970 retail boxes that can be plastered over the 4gb text that reads, "3.5". And driver work to eliminate that problematic half Meg.

 

[mroofie]

Nothing unusual on TPU

nVidia apologists vs 24/7 PMS AMD fanboys.

lol lol pms amd fanboys so true xD

 

[john_]

The press is also attacking Nvidia. The issue lies with what was designed by the engineers and what was sold.

The press is investigating the problem with really good articles(no irony or sarcasm here) and then it comes to the conclusion that "OK Nvidia lied, but they say that it wasn't intentional and no one noticed for months and we totally believe them and the cards are a pure engineering masterpiece and if we had to consider this card again we would have loved it again". I fail to see the attacks here.

I believe in using facts, not rumour to support any logical discussion where I state an opinion.

Me too.

Given Nvidia could be lying about the processes that led to this issue, we can't know the truth. Only Nvidia does, therefore I can't have any genuine opinion on that. All I know is the card isn't suitable for a very small % of users. As long as people are allowed to return cards, its actually okay.
Further, Nvidia should do something about the 512mb memory usage and pursue that avenue. If not, perhaps those angry enough can consult the lawyers.
Should Nvidia address this issue formally? Of course they should.
It doesn't detract from the red mist and some green, that has descended into a rabble of noise though.
The issue isn't closed and it will hurt Nvidia, hopefully they will do something but we'll have to wait and see.

No argue here. But they probably can't do anything about it in the firmware or in the drivers that they where not already doing.

As for AMD, its fair to bring them in as they have misled in the past (bulldozer cores, dysfunctional crossfire, throttling etc) but they were caught out as soon as most things released. I personally ditched AMD after my not so awesome £1000 hd7970 water cooled crossfire let down. It was just as bad for me that so much investment was broken (to my eyes) in most dx9 titles. They never fully fixed dx9 crossfire, enough time progressed that dx10 was prevalent.
Both teams are dishonest but yes, as an Nvidia owner I agree Nvidia are worse.

Bulldozer was a bad design, much like Pentium 4, no misleading there. You do get 8 cores. You also get 8 cores on ARM devices that don't perform as good as an FX. Bay Trail gives you four cores, but it is also much slower than a quad core Haswell. There is no misleading there either. Different architectures, different performance or/and different prices.
Throttling was spotted from the beginning, a simple better cooler was fixing it, but yes they should have used a better cooler. As for the Crossfire, yes, that was a real problem. No excuses there. ABSOLUTELY NO excuses there, and No, I haven't had a crossfire to have a reason to be upset. It was just a huge mistake in their part.

Anyway, I can't be bothered posting anymore because the terrible merry go round of these spurious posts with more emotion than fact are wasting my precious hours.

BTW, only solution is a sticker for all 970 retail boxes that can be plastered over the 4gb text that reads, "3.5". And driver work to eliminate that problematic half Meg.

What you call emotion, it could be a fact. What you call a fact it could be emotion. For someone else it could be the other way around. Driver work is going to be difficult to fix hardware specification, in the same way that the "Wonder Driver" in the end didn't transformed the DX11 in DX12.

 

[Recus]

lololo

 

[W1zzard]

Nvidia lied, but they say that it wasn't intentional and no one noticed for months and we totally DO NOT believe them and the cards are a pure engineering masterpiece and if we had to consider this card again we would have loved it again

fixed that for you. (my personal view)

 

[the54thvoid]

fixed that for you. (my personal view)

Any chance of a 970 versus 980 bench up at 4k ultra IQ?

 

[Lionheart]

This thread is quite entertaining lol

 

[RCoon]

ultra IQ

I have no idea what that means, please explain so I don't feel stupid the next time somebody mentions it.

 

[the54thvoid]

I have no idea what that means, please explain so I don't feel stupid the next time somebody mentions it.

Image Quality. You knew that, you were just testing me. Weren't you? I mean, weren't you... (Just say yes).

 

[RCoon]

Image Quality. You knew that, you were just testing me. Weren't you? I mean, weren't you... (Just say yes).

I would have just said max settings. Shortening it to IQ made me think of intelligence, and then I over thought it, and then I felt emasculated. Better to ask than to google 4K ultra IQ on google for 10 minutes (which, by the way, told me nothing other than a brand name of some monitor).

But that's fine, I can still bamboozle people by using the word pezaz and feel good about my knowledge of shoddy language.

 

[the54thvoid]

I would have just said max settings. Shortening it to IQ made me think of intelligence, and then I over thought it, and then I felt emasculated. Better to ask than to google 4K ultra IQ on google for 10 minutes (which, by the way, told me nothing other than a brand name of some monitor).

But that's fine, I can still bamboozle people by using the word pezaz and feel good about my knowledge of shoddy language.

I maybe missed a comma and instead meant "run a test at 4k, ultra IQ" thus inferring W1zzard to use his maniacal intellect to usurp the brainless masses.
He is after all a machine made of silicon and only purports to use hookers. Those hookers are in fact fembots, delivering nano tech every Friday night via a coupling process we would perceive as vulgar sexual acts.
Or not.

 

[HumanSmoke]

The press is investigating the problem with really good articles(no irony or sarcasm here) and then it comes to the conclusion that "OK Nvidia lied, but they say that it wasn't intentional and no one noticed for months and we totally believe them and the cards are a pure engineering masterpiece and if we had to consider this card again we would have loved it again". I fail to see the attacks here.

That sounds hyperbolic on your part. I think the reason that many sites didn't go straight into OHNOTHESKYIS FALLING mode, is because the performance is what it was on launch day. Sure Nvidia misrepresented the specs, and sure, some people have had cause to regret their purchases - but for the most part, many people aren't affected because 1. they don't load the vRAM to it's full extent, and 2. many have recourse for refund. In the end, it is still a product that mostly works as advertised for most people. It doesn't blow up, it isn't made by child slave labour, and it isn't responsible for the decline of Western civilization. It's a graphics card that will be yesterdays news as soon as the next graphics card arrives.

Bulldozer was a bad design, much like Pentium 4, no misleading there.

The misleading was prior to launch. Viral marketing by John Fruehe (and AMD's unofficial "leaker" Donanimhaber) who vociferously stated that Bulldozer's IPC was significantly better than 10h. Hiding behind the "personal opinion" card, whilst proudly proclaiming his AMD Vice-President status. Sold quite a few 900 chipset boards, and basically locked people in to a Bulldozer purchase on the strength of dubious marketing.
Basically shit happens - and AMD haven't been immune. Remember when AMD got caught falsely advertising that its flagship card had functioning hardware UVD ? No? Nor does anyone else, because the issue was largely hand waved away thanks to the card being less than popular. In the same time frame, AMD deliberately misled with their fictitious processor and bogus benchmarking. Somewhat higher profile, but largely excused by AMD fans because of their underdog status. The fact that in all probability you don't remember either just goes to show how quickly bad behaviour slips from the public consciousness. If that's too long ago, how about AMD and Nvidia's price fixing judgement, or the LCD panel price fixing scandal. In the end, the next shiny thing on the shelves trumps social conscience for the most part. If this sounds cynical, its because this and worse, happens time and time again.