Radeon Fury to be slower than GTX 980 Ti

[GhostRyder]

Where do you have this info from? That is all I am asking. How do you know the architecture of the 390X. Regardless of this, it is still re-using the Hawaii architecture. A tweak here or there may be classed as a refresh but the refinements simply mask a re-used chip. I'm not saying it's bad. Far from it. It's an effective use of already proven hardware.

What I think we would all have preferred is a cascade downwards of Fiji parts to cover the 290X position.

And stop thinking I'm ignoring your posts and their content - I simply ask - how do you know the architecture of the 390X when there is no public available info, other than the leaked specs on core, memory etc?

That's all. Let's hug and be euro friends. You're Slovenian right? Well you know of the band Laibach? I love 'em. I have a Spectre belt - I saw them earlier this year - they're from Yugo originally but they are a Slovenian band as such now. See, we're closer than you think.

Well, all you need to do is use logic. You can't reuse old card for the new card rebrand and have it within same range. That would be a business suicide. But dropping it one level down, I can see it as an option. HD7970 transition to R9-280X did just that. Last year, HD7970 was top end, next year, R9-280X dropped one notch down and high end got replaced by R9-290X. It's a usual business practice done by both AMD and NVIDIA. Same applies to refreshes. They are doing them for years and years in exactly the same way. So, if you've been following graphic cards industry for 15+ years like I have, you kinda learn their ways...

Here is what I was referring to for saying the updates in architecture.

http://videocardz.com/56182/amd-off...t-for-radeon-r9-300-and-r7-300-graphics-cards

This is the site its from as well, however this is not definitive but it does push a little towards the side of "refresh" over "rebrand".

 

[the54thvoid]

Well, all you need to do is use logic. You can't reuse old card for the new card rebrand and have it within same range. That would be a business suicide. But dropping it one level down, I can see it as an option. HD7970 transition to R9-280X did just that. Last year, HD7970 was top end, next year, R9-280X dropped one notch down and high end got replaced by R9-290X. It's a usual business practice done by both AMD and NVIDIA. Same applies to refreshes. They are doing them for years and years in exactly the same way. So, if you've been following graphic cards industry for 15+ years like I have, you kinda learn their ways...

But what about Laibach?

Here is what I was referring to for saying the updates in architecture.

http://videocardz.com/56182/amd-off...t-for-radeon-r9-300-and-r7-300-graphics-cards

This is the site its from as well, however this is not definitive but it does push a little towards the side of "refresh" over "rebrand".

Yeah but that says the 290 has VSR as well. If 290 has it, it nullifies it as being a 390 improvement.

 

[RejZoR]

I never said VSR is a R9-390 exclusive feature. I'm aware of the fact that R9-290 users already got it as a part of I think it was Omega drivers? Or was it before that already? But since it's found on R9-290 already, R9-380 users will also get it for sure. Because that wone will most certainly be a rebrand. Unless they surprise us.

 

[GhostRyder]

But what about Laibach?

Yeah but that says the 290 has VSR as well. If 290 has it, it nullifies it as being a 390 improvement.

Well my argument behind that is why improve the lower segment, make a new top end, and then ignore the second highest column. But yes I agree it offers no definitive proof just (to me) pushes it a bit more towards the other side.

 

[RejZoR]

Also, VSR could technically be done on ANY graphic card, even on Radeon 8500 from 15 years ago. But no one thought of it back then, besides, why would you do that and spit in your own bowl? It's in every business nature to give something exclusive only to the owners of higher end products to encourage others to buy those upmarket products. Here and there you throw in a treat to mid end users just to keep people quiet, but in general you always focus on higher end. It's marketing 101.

Same reason why R9 users got VSR, but HD7900 users didn't and I'm quite certain it could be done just the same without any issues since it's mostly a software thing. But that's just how it is...

 

[R-T-B]

Guys... RELAX! AMD has their TOP MEN working on it right now! TOP MEN!

I somehow read this as "TEN MEN" instead of "TOP MEN."

Sadly, that may be more true than I want to believe...

Also, VSR could technically be done on ANY graphic card, even on Radeon 8500 from 15 years ago.

True, but AMDs official reason for limiting it is the VSR driver implementation uses an "offdie scaler chip" found only on the R9/R7 series.

 

[evanwins]

Well, all you need to do is use logic. You can't reuse old card for the new card rebrand and have it within same range. That would be a business suicide. But dropping it one level down, I can see it as an option. HD7970 transition to R9-280X did just that. Last year, HD7970 was top end, next year, R9-280X dropped one notch down and high end got replaced by R9-290X. It's a usual business practice done by both AMD and NVIDIA. Same applies to refreshes. They are doing them for years and years in exactly the same way. So, if you've been following graphic cards industry for 15+ years like I have, you kinda learn their ways...

Except Nvidia is currently including better chips entirely like basing them off maxwell transitioning to the 9xx series, for every card.

Not just using the new stuff in the top 2 or 3 cards and rebranding Kepler in the lower end 9xx series cards.

I like both companies but it's clear that they haven't been bringing the same level of innovation to the table in a wide range, most people don't get top tier GPUs and thus Nvidia has brought a significant edge in bringing a lot more innovation to the low and mid range lineup whereas AMD has been shifting at a much slower pace only moving to upgrade top tier cards and send the last years big dog down the line one generation at a time.

All of this is speculation, AMD has proven to be inferior for years; they push prices down because they have to because reviews are bad and they push the cards to unreasonable TDPs to try and keep up. Reviews speak for themselves there sure are a lot of artifact and failure complaints about the AMD line up over the last couple years. Would it be cool if they actually brought new shit to the table this year instead of 2 new GPUs and a bunch of 'refresh' 'or overclocked' garbage? Yea it would be but until they do I'm planning on getting a 980 ti, one of the several cards (not two) that have actually changed from the transition of Kepler to Maxwell.

Because I'm a fanboy? No quite the opposite, because hardware stability is important for the small business we're running. But also because in general I want to invest a little more money in something that will retain some level of worth and not drop drastically in price because it was originally sold with nothing but a bunch of advertising propaganda and fanbase fluff.

 

[R-T-B]

Except Nvidia is currently including better chips entirely like basing them off maxwell transitioning to the 9xx series, for every card.

They also are much larger than AMD at the moment and can afford to do so. This hasn't always been the case.

AMD has proven to be inferior for years; they push prices down because they have to because reviews are bad and they push the cards to unreasonable TDPs to try and keep up

Fermi?

Reviews speak for themselves there sure are a lot of artifact and failure complaints about the AMD line up over the last couple years.

If anything this is due to these being the goto cards for mining cryptocoins (which they were better at, FWIW) and a ton of them being dumped on the used market in DAMAGED states when that fell out.

 

[evanwins]

They also are much larger than AMD at the moment and can afford to do so. This hasn't always been the case.




Fermi?



If anything this is due to these being the goto cards for mining cryptocoins (which they were better at, FWIW) and a ton of them being dumped on the used market in DAMAGED states when that fell out.

Yea and Nvidia is larger for the same reason Intel is larger and more sucessful, AMD is either spreading thin in two markets and or there have been some poor business model decisions along the way. It hasn't always been the case but in the last several years it has been a growing issue. I think AMD would benefit from taking on a similar model of finding a way to release new chips and gimping (as much as people complain about this) them to maintain a set of tiers like Nvidia does, it's more exciting and would better compete with what's happening right now with Nvidia.

What about Fermi? At this point Fermi is 5 years old at this point and that's a long time in terms of technology and it's not like AMD had any ground breaking change Nvidia didn't during that time. Fermi displays the changes Nvidia has brought to the table pretty well in terms of TDP though.

And when taking about reviews I'm not talking about used cards which is another issue entirely in which the only reason the cards were ever going up in price was based on something they weren't originally intended for that became a silly fad for a period of time thanks to media influence.

I'm talking about new reviews of off the shelf un-opened cards, the failure rate is pretty high let's not kid ourselves it's not only second hand people have had issues with, look at reviews of the 280x it's sad.

 

[OneMoar]

In other news rumor rumored to be a rumor ...

 

[the54thvoid]

In other news rumor rumored to be a rumor ...

Source please.

 

[OneMoar]

Source please.

cite: http://www.rumor.com/

 

[Luka KLLP]

cite: http://www.rumor.com/

But... is it under Rumors or Myths?

 

[OneMoar]

But... is it under Rumors or Myths?

nobody cares
can we lock this failthread now

 

[64K]

FailThread has failed.

 

[HumanSmoke]

Have I been speaking Chinese for the last few posts by any chance? Hell, even dictionary says "rebrand" is just a change of the company or product image. Not content, image aka apperance. HD7970 to R9-280X transition was exactly that. Same core, slightly updated software (BIOS) and new stickers. A rebrand. R9-290X to R9-390X holds a similar layout of the old GPU, but features completelly new shaders which are way more efficient than old ones, way more efficient tessellation unit and framebufer compression. A refresh. How freaking more clear can I be?

Well. so far it isn't looking good.

 

[RejZoR]

So, my predictions were indeed correct. Same shader, TMU and ROP count, they just upgraded GCN to 1.2, gave the card that sweet framebuffer compression and better tessellation unit and slammed extra 4GB of VRAM on it. Considering old R9-290X was still jumping up in the GTX 980/970 face even as it was, this seems a logical move (from AMD's perspective that is).

 

[arbiter]

Well. so far it isn't looking good.

MSI claims 208 watts on the card, i highly doubt it will be that low. yea gcn 1.2 is more efficient but not that much.

 

[HumanSmoke]

MSI claims 208 watts on the card, i highly doubt it will be that low.

That's MSI's estimate/marketing. Probably some fine print somewhere about wattage measured on a DX9 title. MSI's 290X has the exact same 208W power usage figure.

 

[R-T-B]

What about Fermi? At this point Fermi is 5 years old at this point and that's a long time in terms of technology and it's not like AMD had any ground breaking change Nvidia didn't during that time. Fermi displays the changes Nvidia has brought to the table pretty well in terms of TDP though.

AMD had a much lower TDP during the Fermi time table. Since you said "for years" it IS relevant.

And when taking about reviews I'm not talking about used cards which is another issue entirely in which the only reason the cards were ever going up in price was based on something they weren't originally intended for that became a silly fad for a period of time thanks to media influence.

I'm talking about new reviews of off the shelf un-opened cards, the failure rate is pretty high let's not kid ourselves it's not only second hand people have had issues with, look at reviews of the 280x it's sad.

I've yet to see any unbiased review group mention this "flickering" issue on either cards. Also, failure rate is by nature not going to be noticed in a review of a new product. Don't kid yourself, that's the used cards at play.

So, my predictions were indeed correct. Same shader, TMU and ROP count, they just upgraded GCN to 1.2, gave the card that sweet framebuffer compression and better tessellation unit and slammed extra 4GB of VRAM on it. Considering old R9-290X was still jumping up in the GTX 980/970 face even as it was, this seems a logical move (from AMD's perspective that is).

Source for this?

If so, good for everyone.

 

[Super XP]

There's no proof that the Radeon Fury will be slower than the GTX 980i.
Have you guys/gals seen the specs of the Fury? They are insane. Couple that with awesome drivers and it should be the fastest cards out.

This time round, and going forward we should never see Re-Brands again. AMD clearly stated this in a previous press release. Just don't remember which one. New tech all the way.

 

[HumanSmoke]

There's no proof that the Radeon Fury will be slower than the GTX 980i.
Have you guys/gals seen the specs of the Fury? They are insane. Couple that with awesome drivers and it should be the fastest cards out.

There is also no proof that the reverse is true...so you're refuting an argument because of no proof with an argument that also doesn't contain proof. Did someone ask you to show a written example of irony?

This time round, and going forward we should never see Re-Brands again.

Yet the R7 370 is almost certainly a rebrand of the R9 270 (which is in turn a rebranded HD 8860/8870 OEM, which is turn a rebranded HD 7870 GHz Edition.) - note the Crossfire finger in the slide.

AMD clearly stated this in a previous press release. Just don't remember which one.

In all honesty, I doubt AMD do either.

New tech all the way.

 

[arbiter]

There's no proof that the Radeon Fury will be slower than the GTX 980i.
Have you guys/gals seen the specs of the Fury? They are insane. Couple that with awesome drivers and it should be the fastest cards out.

This time round, and going forward we should never see Re-Brands again. AMD clearly stated this in a previous press release. Just don't remember which one. New tech all the way.

There is also no proof that the reverse is true...so you're refuting an argument because of no proof with an argument that also doesn't contain proof. Did someone ask you to show a written example of irony?

I was about to drop that same bomb shell on him but you got there first.

Thing is we can take history of card performance and show what expected performance of card is based on AMD's history. History says the card is not gonna really be faster, that it will be around same of 980ti or titan X. If that is a good or bad thing will end up coming down to what price tag AMD has to slap on the card. If it costs more for only a few % then well ......

As for AMD saying no future re-brands, I hope you seriously don't believe that? Given AMD's state $ wise there will likely be more in the future even if they claim otherwise.

MSI claims 208 watts on the card, i highly doubt it will be that low. yea gcn 1.2 is more efficient but not that much.

If you use 285 as base for fiji, since its gcn 1.2 as well. 1792 cores, can come up with possible watt draw, which is near 400watt range since its over double.

 

[MrGenius]

I can do this all day... HD7970 is in fact R9-280X. Check your facts.

Same number of shaders (even the exact same version of it, GCN 1.0), texture units and ROP's.

It depends on where you look for said "facts". As I've come to find out. Since there's just about as many places to find it stated that a 280X is GCN 1.1 as there are stating that it's GCN 1.0. Which probably has something to do with Tahiti XT2 vs. Tahiti XTL vs. Tahiti B0 XTL(which are all found on 280X...supposedly). What's the differences there? Again, rhetorical question. Don't waste your breath. You're not any more likely to know the real truth than I am(or anybody else is apparently). Thanks for suggesting the can of worms dude! Had no idea what I was opening there...

Moral of the story: I don't know...you don't know...nobody knows...THE END.

 

[OneMoar]

@Tatty_One
ill give you a eCookie if you lock this thread