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delete this because less than half the people around here understand or even want to

will AMD outperform NV while using DX12?

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MxPhenom 216 said:
Nvidia fanboys don't make threads like this, so what does this say about you, who looks to only run AMD Gpus?
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so your just onto trolling now?? must have actually read and thought about what dx12 means since thats all you have?
 
xfia said:
it would have been better to say the cpu has been the master and the gpu has been the slave.. never before more untrue with next gen api's. your cpu and gpu are more like equal partners than ever before. even if nvidia is able to fully optimize overhead at levels of amd its just not enough..
what are you going to buy if you have heavy gpu accelerated workflow? well at the top is probably going to be a complete intel xeon setup followed by quadro and firepro.
amd gaming gpu's hold a spot over nv gaming gpu's for being able to do both except pushing cuda has made sales.
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I think the amount of overhead you think exists is vastly overstated. Also, we've seen what Mantle can do and while it's good, it's not amazing, and we're bound to see the same thing in DX12 with nVidia, something AMD already has with Mantle. Also GPU and CPU can only be truly equal partners if you're using an APU with something like HSA where the two cores are practically physically next to each other. You can't expect external hardware like a GPU on a PCI-E bus to respond quickly enough to general purpose compute instructions on the fly which is why most GPGPU applications are compiled then sent to the GPU. They're not good at doing things on the fly, that's what a CPU is for. Also I've made this point time and time again, more threads doesn't always mean more performance. Your workload has to already be sufficiently functional (lacking side effects,) to do such a thing and have it be helpful. Otherwise you run into the race condition and deadlock problems which are solved using methods that may ultimately reduce performance because the bit of your application that you're trying to make multi-threaded may be inherently serial in nature, in which case threads don't do anything for you.

All in all, I think some more waiting is in order because there are a number of things going on here.
  1. Speculation about unreleased and unreviewed hardware.
  2. Speculation on an API that isn't used by any hardware yet.
  3. False assumptions about how computers work.
With that said, I think closing this thread and waiting for some reviews to come out would be a wise idea because I see more bias and false assumptions than what should be acceptable in a thread. On top of that, several knowledgable members (in particular, @BiggieShady ) have given their input to explain exactly what's going on here but yet you maintain your claims seemingly based on faith and not information considering you have no rebuttal other than "OMG AMD, DX12, and Win10, rah, rah rah," which isn't constructive or helpful considering no piece of technology will make your code run in parallel for you and that you're still constrained by reality when doing such things.
xfia said:
so your just onto trolling now?? must have actually read and thought about what dx12 means since thats all you have?
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Calling you out on the bias and BS doesn't make him a troll.
 
xfia said:
so your just onto trolling now?? must have actually read and thought about what dx12 means since thats all you have?
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I'm trolling, okay bro. Just keep spamming the forums with your AMD PR. Hopefully at some point it'll get you a vacation.
 
i haz a gtx 970 with 3.5g memory and it plays meh games.:nutkick:
 
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Thread doesn't need closing, there's been no real rule breakers to warrant it.
The discussion may still go on, it may not - better ot let it die out naturally than going around forum Gestapo on everything because it isn't all care bears and rainbows.

I've learned things, so I call it a worthwhile experience.
 
newconroer said:
Thread doesn't need closing, there's been no real rule breakers to warrant it.
The discussion may still go on, it may not - better ot let it die out naturally than going around forum Gestapo on everything because it isn't all care bears and rainbows.

I've learned things, so I call it a worthwhile experience.
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Touché. I think it's less about the content that was brought to the discussion and more with respect to the turn it took. I would hardly call the name calling civil behavior, though.
 
the api overhead is a direct result of amd and microsoft working together for the game systems.. in fact they have been getting in on any development they can that could be meaningful in the long run.
will microsoft help with what they have learned to give nv a fighting chance or is amd api overhead to many years ahead of nv to make a difference before it matters?
 
xfia said:
the api overhead is a direct result of amd and microsoft working together for the game systems.. in fact they have been getting in on any development they can that could be meaningful in the long run.
will microsoft help with what they have learned to give nv a fighting chance or is amd api overhead to many years ahead of nv to make a difference before it matters?
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Just wow....are you being paid? Wow...
 
has nvidia planned for old architectures to become obsolete or are they just that far behind amd?
 
xfia said:
has nvidia planned for old architectures to become obsolete or are they just that far behind amd?
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has AMD planned no money or are they that stpids they makes no monies in AMDfans lalalands, PS Mantle FTWINS
 
if not having greedy business tactics has left them with no money is it amd that needs to change?
the type of business nv does leads to a flood at the patent office! do you know someone was sued for making a cell app in a way that every app is dependent?

upload_2015-6-22_19-39-31.png
not even *fine print... i tried to find stuff about dx12 on nv's site but it appears they are proud of no accomplishment.
 
By "greedy business tactics", do you mean actually doing business with the intent of making a profit? Yeah, the lack of economic knowledge here is astounding.
 
xfia said:
if not having greedy business tactics has left them with no money is it amd that needs to change?
the type of business nv does leads to a flood at the patent office! do you know someone was sued for making a cell app in a way that every app is dependent?

View attachment 65973not even *fine print... i tried to find stuff about dx12 on nv's site but it appears they are proud of no accomplishment.
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10 second google and
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2015/05/01/directx-12-cryengine/

Note the web address nvidia.com
 
its a real problem actually.. especially with technology. the people at the patent office dont understand if something should not be owned and could be crucial for 1 company monopolizing a industry or similar problems. there is actually initiative to stop this.
they are actually starting to make money now and becoming more well known and good partners with the corporations that matter.
the next 5yrs will mean a lot to them depending on what lauching products do.. they got a lock on the game systems but we need to see how carrizo does along the mobile gpu's.
@dorsetknob wont catch me on the google searching gameworks.. nice how amd has a innovations section and gaming page..
 
xfia said:
the api overhead is a direct result of amd and microsoft working together for the game systems.. in fact they have been getting in on any development they can that could be meaningful in the long run.
will microsoft help with what they have learned to give nv a fighting chance or is amd api overhead to many years ahead of nv to make a difference before it matters?
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I...........I..........I don't even know where to start. This whole post from start to end is FUBAR.

You need to do actual research on this sort of stuff before you go making threads, and engaging in arguments on subjects you clearly have no base of knowledge on, and NO quoting PR slides, AMD marketting, and other general business tactics from any corporation is not research. Thats called being a sheep. You are being fed all this BS from AMD, Microsoft, Nvidia, without thinking critically for yourself and doing REAL research on it.

Then again the whole subject is mute seeing how DX12 is not even out yet. So maybe you should sit back, wait till DX12 is officially out, being used in games, and in the meantime, educate yourself on how computers actually work.
 
OP is officially talking out of his ass
 
yes cynic i would rather listen to a engineer talk from microsoft than read articles stipulating what is fact to experts for generations.. they even make silly videos now so anyone can understand
riiight... the guy that thinks mantle and dx12 are the same and brings zero of anything intelligent to say to the table should be telling me what to do
 
xfia said:
yes cynic i would rather listen to a engineer talk from microsoft than read articles stipulating what is fact to experts for generations.. they even make silly videos now so anyone can understand
riiight... the guy that thinks mantle and dx12 are the same and brings zero of anything intelligent to say to the table should be telling me what to do
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Well I hope you realize that AMD has pretty much given up on Mantle now that DX12 is coming and does essentially the same thing. They have told people to look into DX12 rather then Mantle. Too lazy to dig up the article but its out there.
 
yeah mantle is pretty much just for in house optimizing and has great optimization they have shared for gcn but dx12 means much more than mantle. the coding efficiency is much higher with such great latency that amd is demonstrating 100 percent increase in fps while using dx12 in the same exactly scenario's as dx11.
if nv cant start putting up higher coding efficiency and reducing api overhead with dx12 the performance gap will be more than in the favor of amd.
 
xfia said:
yeah mantle is pretty much just for in house optimizing and has great optimization they have shared for gcn but dx12 means much more than mantle. the coding efficiency is much higher with such great latency that amd is demonstrating 100 percent increase in fps while using dx12 in the same exactly scenario's as dx11.
if nv cant start putting up higher coding efficiency and reducing api overhead with dx12 the performance gap will be more than in the favor of amd.
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I'm sure Nvidia's coding efficiency will deal with dx12 perfectly capably. When it does I assume you'll espouse their achievement?
FWIW, its folk like you that give AMD supporters a really bad name.
 
the54thvoid said:
I'm sure Nvidia's coding efficiency will deal with dx12 perfectly capably. When it does I assume you'll espouse their achievement?
FWIW, its folk like you that give AMD supporters a really bad name.
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You still miss the point of OP here.
It's widely accepted that the main reason that nVi won over AMD in Dx11 was the advantage in draw calls. So, in Dx12 when that advantage disappears, AMD current cards will surely rise above their respective rival in each price segment, or even the next segment if those slides from AMD are correct.
 
xfia said:
if not having greedy business tactics has left them with no money is it amd that needs to change?
the type of business nv does leads to a flood at the patent office! do you know someone was sued for making a cell app in a way that every app is dependent?

View attachment 65973not even *fine print... i tried to find stuff about dx12 on nv's site but it appears they are proud of no accomplishment.
Click to expand...
Selective searching? there is plenty if you look, for example NVidia bragging about Microsoft WHQL certified drivers for Windows 10 AND DX12 for their GPU's. I am sure you are right about the draw call excellence but it remains speculation with no comparisons as yet and therefore, at the very best it's interesting and at the very worst...... pointless.

http://www.geforce.co.uk/whats-new/...drivers-for-windows-10-are-now-whql-certified

I suppose, in order to add some balance to the information and speculation here, it should also be mentioned that NVidia are claiming potential for huge performance improvements with DX12 also, to be fair it would be foolish of them not to..........

http://www.geforce.co.uk/whats-new/articles/fable-legends-directx-12-video-interview
 
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