Really bizarre LAN chip/port issue

[RejZoR]

Erm, the LAN chip is hard wired to the motheroard PCB. And some of you are crediting bizarreness way too far. It's not cable or router. They are both 6 times younger than the motherboard...

Hybrid sleep leaves RAM on so the data doesn't get cleared in it. Otherwise you have to copy entire RAM content from HDD back into RAM and that takes time... System will still boot from where you left it even if power is cut.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Erm, the LAN chip is hard wired to the motheroard PCB

Does not matter. While it is an "integrated" device, it is still a "discrete" device. And while not technically a NIC (network interface "card") it acts and is treated the same way by the OS - just like the integrated sound "card".

And age of the cable or router mean nothing. Both can easily be damaged or even DOA.

System will still boot from where you left it even if power is cut.

Ummm, sorry, but no it won't. If power is totally cut, the system does a "cold" boot and boots completely anew, not from you left it. That is, if you are working on a Word document and the "power is cut" via the master power switch, when you reboot, Word will not be started and your document will not be opened. You will (if nothing was corrupted) be at your normal desktop with only the programs you have starting with Windows started.

 

[RejZoR]

Erm, no. Hybrid sleep keeps two data sets in parallel. One in memory and one on HDD. If you wake it with data still in RAM it'll wake like from normal sleep. If power gets cut during Hybrid sleep, it will wake itself up the same way it does from hibernation (copies RAM data from HDD back into RAM). Takes a bit longer but still faster than regular cold boot. Plus it starts off where you left it.

 

[Bill_Bright]

If power gets cut during Hybrid sleep, it will wake itself up the same way it does from hibernation (copies RAM data from HDD back into RAM). Takes a bit longer but still faster than regular cold boot. Plus it starts off where you left it.

I am sorry. You are right. If you let it go into hybrid sleep, then kill power, it will come back where you left it. That's why it is called "hybrid" - it has features of hibernation as used on notebook but if for PCs. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Aquinus]

@RejZoR I'm still waiting for a response to my question. I want to try and rule the BIOS out.

Question: Does it only ever disappear after reboot, or does it disappear after shutdown, restart, sleep, or hibernation? As in, Windows doesn't play some sound saying the device was "disconnected"?

If the answer is yes (doesn't occur when after Windows is already loaded and running,) could you be a sport and reset your BIOS back to stock and see if it still occurs? If it does, I would try re-flash the BIOS with the latest version, even if it's the same version as what you have. If the answer is no, it sounds like a hardware fault because a fault won't be picky about when it occurs in most cases.

That might not be super clear. Does the device ever disappear before your eyes in Windows is my question. If it does, that's a much bigger sign of a hardware fault, so ruling the BIOS out would be the way to go if this isn't occurring.

 

[RejZoR]

Now this does make sense. It's unlikely but it might happen. I've reset and cleared CMOS by removing battery (might buy a new one while I'm at it), but the BIOS would still be the same. I'll actually try this...

 

[RejZoR]

Got a brand new battery and have the ROM ready. I wonder if it's possible to also erase ALL data stored on motherboard (like custom overclock profiles and all that stuff). I'd try to clear it all to absolute stock.

 

[Aquinus]

Got a brand new battery and have the ROM ready. I wonder if it's possible to also erase ALL data stored on motherboard (like custom overclock profiles and all that stuff). I'd try to clear it all to absolute stock.

BIOS settings aren't volatile memory on modern computers. The battery is only to keep the real-time clock going if there is no power. You will need to reset the CMOS using a jumper or button on the motherboard to actually clear it. Telling the BIOS to load defaults will accomplish the same thing. However it's important to state that the battery is really only used for the real-time clock nowadays.

 

[RejZoR]

I know how EEPROM chips work and what's CMOS, I was talking about clearing the custom save settings just to be sure. They can't be erased by loading default settings. I'm changing the battery just because I can get them for free and want to be sure it's not some random retarded bullshit causing it (like a ~5 years old battery that causes entire system to flip out).

 

[Bill_Bright]

The battery is only to keep the real-time clock going if there is no power.

Ummm, sorry, but no. That is not its only purpose. The battery is also used to keep the CMOS memory module "alive" so it maintains the data it is holding. And that data is the "user changes" to the defaults set in the BIOS EEPROM. So removing the battery (or shorting the circuit with the jumper) removes the voltage keeping the CMOS memory device alive "instantly" dumping the data saved in CMOS.

If motherboard designers/engineers wanted it to be hard to reset the BIOS and purge user settings, they would have used a different memory device than CMOS technologies.

 

[RejZoR]

BIOS is basically read only (apart from when you flash it), CMOS actually holds the BIOS settings. Think of BIOS like disk boot sector. It's writable, but its main purpose is to boot system of it. BIOS does the same job. Boots hardware to life. Since it has settings, they need to be stored in CMOS which is volatile. Battery is keeping this volatile memory alive. Along with time oscilator, yes...

 

[Aquinus]

How certain are you that the BIOS settings on your board are actually stored with CMOS? More and more motherboards use nvram or flash memory to store configuration. I'll take a quote from SuperUser.com on the matter.

It is worth mentioning that the BIOS settings do not have to be stored in volatile CMOS memory. There are plenty of embedded systems that store their settings in NVRAM. The only reason PCs have gotten away with using volatile CMOS over all these years is that they already had a battery to keep the internal real-time clock ticking while the power is off (recall that when you pressed the power switch on a PC-AT, it literallycut all power off to the motherboard). This meant that cheaper volatile memory could be used to store system settings. So it is mostly for historical purposes.

Source: http://superuser.com/questions/707254/where-is-the-bios-stored

 

[Ferrum Master]

khrmm khrmm we had already one fight about that... it didn't end up well...

Use Flashback option... It actually does a pretty brutal stuff and resets things properly, as it does not do a simple update, it usually does unbricking, it writes the CAP image dump and then puts back the critical SN/MAC numbers, albeit it doesn't touch the MEI region. Intel update too is needed for that...

You can also try to make some fun with UBU, the BIOS mod tool... more info on winraid forums.

 

[RejZoR]

Maybe UEFI boards use NVRAM, but the old ones most certainly use CMOS. If it goes gold fish with the memory after taking out the battery, then it's CMOS for sure...

 

[Bill_Bright]

CMOS actually holds the BIOS settings.

It is "user changes" to the BIOS settings that are stored in the CMOS, not the BIOS "default" settings. The BIOS and its default settings are typically in the EEPROM or some similar "firmware" device. The CMOS devices holds the actual date and time, drive information, custom timings, checksums, and other changes from the defaults as detected during the initial boot process. While the device used to store this information may not physically be comprised of complementary metal–oxide–semiconductor (CMOS) materials on some modern motherboards, the function of the CMOS device is still the same.

 

[RejZoR]

Isn't that kinda obvious? You don't store default settings on a medium that gets cleared...

 

[OneMoar]

CMOS IS A TYPE OF NVRAM

 

[RejZoR]

CMOS (by its strict original definition) is VOLATILE. Volatile means when you cut power it goes blank. NVRAM will stores the data even if it has no power for extended periods of time... Routers use NVRAM and it'll keep all the settings even when it's without any power for days...

 

[Aquinus]

CMOS just describes (albeit, vaguely) what was traditionally was a SRAM store and SRAM is simply done on a CMOS process. CMOS is a much more generic term that spans a variety of different kinds of integrated circuits. Consider for a moment these two statements:

"CMOS" refers to both a particular style of digital circuitry design and the family of processes used to implement that circuitry on integrated circuits (chips). CMOS circuitry dissipates less power than logic families with resistive loads. Since this advantage has increased and grown more important, CMOS processes and variants have come to dominate, thus the vast majority of modern integrated circuit manufacturing is on CMOS processes.

CMOS circuits use a combination of p-type and n-type metal–oxide–semiconductor field-effect transistors (MOSFETs) to implement logic gates and other digital circuits.

As a result, CMOS can describe any number of devices which includes both SRAM and Flash memory. All I'm saying is that most modern computers are moving to non-volatile stores for BIOS configuration settings.

Either way, this is all starting to get way, way, way off topic.

@RejZoR get back to us after you reflash the BIOS and let us know where everything stands. I really want to find out where this goes.

 

[RejZoR]

Battery is replaced and BIOS reflashed. The system is ON for now, I'll shut it down in the morning before I leave for work. Then I'll see how it goes when I get back from work. It's when I'll see if it did anything to the system. I also get LAN card tomorrow so I'll make it functional either way...

 

[Shou Miko]

I am following here to see how this goes ^^

 

[Pill Monster]

Anyone ever had this weird problem where LAN device integrated on motherboard (in my case on ASUS Rampage II Gene) almost 99% of time doesn't work at all with red cross in Windows 8.1 (it's not even detected at all in Device manager) when you boot system after having it turned off for few hours. Rebooting system doesn't resolve the issue. However, if I shut down the system, turn PSU switch to OFF, wait for all lights to go out on motherboard, power it back on and in same 99% of time, LAN magically appears.

This crap started happening all of a sudden for no real reason. I've rechecked everything and everything is in order. I've also tried stock clocks and everything and it's still happening.

Only thing that seems to somewhat corelate is installation of GTX 980. With HD7950 I nevr had such issues. Might be just weird coincidence though.

Any ideas? I'm really not in the mood for changing the whole system right now (was hoping to do that decision when AMD Zen will be released) so I'm looking for solutions. Any ideas?

Maybe try flashing the OpRom, you never know......
Latest OpRoms can be found over at Win-Raid, a guy there developed a tool which integrates Realtek/AsMedia/Marvell etc firmware into the BIOS. The ROM's are updated all the time.

I've flashed my AsMedia RAID controller, Realtek NIC, USB. bunch of stuff.... Even microcode updates for Vishera.

Remember Fernando from NVNews days? He runs the site...

 

[jboydgolfer]

Yeah, but if that would happen, I'd never be able to fix the issue. Instead it goes away when I cycle my system. That's why I'm excluding hardware issues of this sort and more focusing on hardware issues that might be on board itself. I'm just not sure what the hell could go wrong in such a way that cycling a system fixes the issue. Seems, well, bizarre.

You say that it will work when you kill the power to the PSU....Now By chance are You moving the PC when You go to do this??or moving the desk or whatever Your PC might be in (if it is inside something)?

 

[RejZoR]

No. I just flip the switch at the back. Absolutely ZERO motion of ANYTHING.

I've booted the system today and it wasn't working. Got the LAN card and it's already installed. I'm guessing it'll work flawlessly. Stupid, but eh, It was 10€ for a 1Gbps LAN card. It's still weird problem though lol...

 

[Bill_Bright]

Isn't that kinda obvious?

We, as forum regulars, must not assume everyone reading has the same level of knowledge. So what may be obvious to you, may

CMOS IS A TYPE OF NVRAM

No it isn't!

I know there is confusing data out there but you cannot believe everything you read in Wikipedia. CMOS memory "devices" have been around and used in electronics for many years longer than the PC.

CMOS memory "devices" are volatile! If you remove the power from the device, the stored data is lost. That's the definition of volatile memory. That is exactly why CMOS "devices" were selected by IBM engineers in the original IBM PCs to store changes to the defaults set in the BIOS - so the BIOS could easily be reset.

CMOS "circuits", on the other hand, are non-volatile because, and as long as, they have a battery to keep the CMOS module powered, they will retain their data when the entire computer is powered off.

Computers are electronics. This is basic electronics any student of electronics knows. Sadly, many so called technical computer articles are not written by formally educated EEs or technicians and the authors of these articles don't know the difference between a CMOS device and a CMOS circuit.

If the CMOS was non-volatile as you proclaim, then by the definition of non-volatile, you should be able to unplug the computer and remove the battery and the CMOS data will still be retained - just as it is on a hard drive, SSD, or flash drive. But it's retained. In fact, it gets dumped almost instantly.