MSI RX 480 Gaming X 8 GB

[HumanSmoke]

Actually there are very good reasons for them to choose something different than Samsung:
1. Samsung is a competitor, so why to give them money and finance their R&D not to mention that to depend on a competitor to produce your product is not very good business.
2. By manufacturing in Samsung fab you give them access to your blueprints so they can either copy, inspire or be notified in time to respond to any significant architectural change you are doing.

For the above reasons if I would be Apple I'd choose anything other than Samsung, even if it will cost me a bit more, even if the quality isn't that good.
The fact that they went to Samsung in the first place proves that they found there something they couldn't find anywhere else.

You clearly don't understand how the pure-play foundry model works. Analyzing and copying the IP logic blocks of a customers IC's would destroy Samsung's foundry business - they wouldn't retain or gain a single customer, and by the time the court system finished pounding them into dust for breaches of confidentiality, contract, and IP theft, Samsung wouldn't have a pure-play foundry business.

 

[sweet]

Actually there are very good reasons for them to choose something different than Samsung:
1. Samsung is a competitor, so why to give them money and finance their R&D not to mention that to depend on a competitor to produce your product is not very good business.
2. By manufacturing in Samsung fab you give them access to your blueprints so they can either copy, inspire or be notified in time to respond to any significant architectural change you are doing.

For the above reasons if I would be Apple I'd choose anything other than Samsung, even if it will cost me a bit more, even if the quality isn't that good.
The fact that they went to Samsung in the first place proves that they found there something they couldn't find anywhere else.

Samsung is a big-ass corporation. Their fab and their mobile unit are completely different entities.

 

[Malabooga]

cool. but what games nowadays have dx 12 and async? its just a few games. And thats why i think for the majority of actual games, the 1060 is a better deal. IMHO

The list of DX12 games is already quite long and will only get longer.

So its mostly: if youre buying GPU for yesterday choose 1060, if you buy GPU for tomorrow choose AMD.

The only valid case of "1060 being better" is if you dont have interest in new games.

Well AMD used TSMC 16nm for XBox One S.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...as-a-gpu-overclock-and-we-have-benchmarked-it

The new SoC is pretty much direct shrink from old SoC which was done on 28nm TSMC. They even talk about "2 disabled CUs".

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7546/chipworks-confirms-xbox-one-soc-has-14-cus

there was even talk of 20nm, so this design might have been in existance for a long time (for 20nm then just shifted to 16nm as those are not all that different)

 

[rtwjunkie]

The list of DX12 games is already quite long and will only get longer.

 

[bug]

So its mostly: if youre buying GPU for yesterday choose 1060, if you buy GPU for tomorrow choose AMD.

That usually works out well. For Nostradamus, that is.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

He's right though. Pretty much every major PC release going forward is going to have a DX12/Vulkan mode from the get go or have it patched in afterwards.

 

[rtwjunkie]

He's right though. Pretty much every major PC release going forward is going to have a DX12/Vulkan mode from the get go or have it patched in afterwards.

Mostly I'm laughing at the "long list". Also, prepare to be surprised, DX12 adoption is not going quickly, nor will it be wholesale adopted by game studios.

As for games having DX12 backwards shoehorned onto existing games, well let's say those results leave alot to be desired.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

Mostly I'm laughing at the "long list". Also, prepare to be surprised, DX12 adoption is not going quickly, nor will it be wholesale adopted by game studios.

As for games having DX12 backwards shoehorned onto existing games, well let's say those results leave alot to be desired.

DX12 or Vulkan adoption by the big studios is/is going to be universal as it gives performance advantages across the board. As we're (or at least I was) talking about the benchmarks of a suite of big PC titles developed by said AAA developers (used for all benchmarks of nearly every major site), them adopting low-level apis quickly is more relevant than whether every other small or indie game studios adopts them wholesale too. In any case by and large the games made by smaller and more indie studios tend to have graphics engines that run in 100+fps in DX11 so they are mostly irrelevant when judging performance anyway. It doesn't change the value proposition between an AMD and Nvidia card if Truck Simulator 4000 runs at 180fps in DX11 on a 1060 versus 168fps in DX11 on a 480.

What is going to change perceptions going forward is DX12 performance of the likes of Battlefield 1, Deus Ex or Civilization VI. These are the big games that are going to be benched and what people are going to draw conclusions from.

 

[rtwjunkie]

DX12 or Vulkan adoption by the big studios is/is going to be universal as it gives performance advantages across the board. As we're (or at least I was) talking about the benchmarks of a suite of big PC titles developed by said AAA developers (used for all benchmarks of nearly every major site), them adopting low-level apis quickly is more relevant than whether every other small or indie game studios adopts them wholesale too. In any case by and large the games made by smaller and more indie studios tend to have graphics engines that run in 100+fps in DX11 so they are mostly irrelevant when judging performance anyway. It doesn't change the value proposition between an AMD and Nvidia card if Truck Simulator 4000 runs at 180fps in DX11 on a 1060 versus 168fps in DX11 on a 480.

What is going to change perceptions going forward is DX12 performance of the likes of Battlefield 1, Deus Ex or Civilization VI. These are the big games that are going to be benched and what people are going to draw conclusions from.

DX 12 works better since it is low level, but as far as Implementation, it is harder to program from everything I have read. Your statement is thus only hope at this point.

Independent games en masse are a majority of the market, mostly because of actual content, so their use of DX11 and it's influence should not be discounted too swiftly.

BTW, some of those indie games you discounted as being irrelevant performance-wise are well optimized and still push PC's as hard as so thing like Crysis 3 or TW3.

It's always wise to refrain from blanket predictions such as DX12 will be everywhere when dealing in the tech world, which is the only reason I even commented. Oh, and the "quite long" list of DX12 titles already published. That really got me laughing.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

DX 12 works better since it is low level, but as far as Implementation, it is harder to program from everything I have read. Your statement is thus only hope at this point.

Independent games en masse are a majority of the market, mostly because of actual content, so their use of DX11 and it's influence should not be discounted too swiftly.

BTW, some of those indie games you discounted as being irrelevant performance-wise are well optimized and still push PC's as hard as so thing like Crysis 3 or TW3.

It's always wise to refrain from blanket predictions such as DX12 will be everywhere when dealing in the tech world, which is the only reason I even commented. Oh, and the "quite long" list of DX12 titles already published. That really got me laughing.

Laugh all you want (don't know what is funny)

You have a curious position on something that will advance PC gaming for everyone, trying to write DX12 adoption as merely 'hope' on my part. This hints that perhaps you have an agenda - could it be that you are willing DX12 to be slowly adopted, and thus the whole of gaming development is kept shackled, so that Nvidia maintains its performance advantage? Foolish and futile hope on your part.

Bye.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Laugh all you want (don't know what is funny)

You have a curious position on something that will advance PC gaming for everyone, trying to write DX12 adoption as merely 'hope' on my part. This hints that perhaps you have an agenda - could it be that you are willing DX12 to be slowly adopted, and thus the whole of gaming development is kept shackled, so that Nvidia maintains its performance advantage? Foolish and futile hope on your part.

Bye.

Where the F*&K would you get an idea that I have an NVIDIA agenda? Do you not check signatures as well as specs (just to make sure you aren't talking out your rear)? I own green and red. I am far too old to play fanboi games that you think I might ascribe to.

I have a PC gaming agenda, and I am a realist. And yeah, there is no "long list" of DX12 titles, that is what is funny. I am a realist in the breakdown of AAA to Indie, and have observed the extremely slow adoption of DX12.

 

[geon2k2]

You clearly don't understand how the pure-play foundry model works. Analyzing and copying the IP logic blocks of a customers IC's would destroy Samsung's foundry business - they wouldn't retain or gain a single customer, and by the time the court system finished pounding them into dust for breaches of confidentiality, contract, and IP theft, Samsung wouldn't have a pure-play foundry business.

you might be right ... but still having a look never hurts, you don't need to blatantly copy, and imagine how hard it would be to prove that such an inspiration exists.
Industrial espionage will always exist and S is definitely struggling hard to find out what A is working on, and I'm sure A is doing the same, you just don't go unprepared in current times.
And I'm just saying that going with the schematics in their courtyard will kind of ease their job.

BTW, I don't have any sort of information, this is just pure speculation, but just can't believe someone is such a gentleman and just prints, while being turned with the back and doesn't even glance at what is being printed.

 

[eidairaman1]

Good Card I'd say Reference boards are easier to watercool though.

 

[HumanSmoke]

you might be right ... but still having a look never hurts, you don't need to blatantly copy, and imagine how hard it would be to prove that such an inspiration exists.

No, it is actually quite easy to prove IP theft on a IC logic block basis. It was easy 35 years ago when NEC was found to have copied Intel's 8086/8088 and marketed them as the µPD 8086/8088, and it is even easier now where private companies routinely shave heatspreaders off chips and produce highly detailed X-Ray metrology images for anyone with $5000 to buy. Semicon giants of course have much more resources at their disposal including (obviously) the orginal logic block floorplans, transistor placement, and metal layer interconnects.

 

[Malabooga]

Where the F*&K would you get an idea that I have an NVIDIA agenda? Do you not check signatures as well as specs (just to make sure you aren't talking out your rear)? I own green and red. I am far too old to play fanboi games that you think I might ascribe to.

I have a PC gaming agenda, and I am a realist. And yeah, there is no "long list" of DX12 titles, that is what is funny. I am a realist in the breakdown of AAA to Indie, and have observed the extremely slow adoption of DX12.

sure dude, you dont even have a clue about DX12 games, DX12 adoption or anything else. The be a "realist" you first have to step into reality. Indie? You mean 8bit games that you can run on current smartphone? Thas your "leverage".

Yeah, now im laughing my socks out

Fact is that this benchmark suite is good for measuring performance of 2-3 years ago and has nothing to do with todays or tomorrows performance and is good only if youre buying GPU for games of 2-3 years ago.

He's right though. Pretty much every major PC release going forward is going to have a DX12/Vulkan mode from the get go or have it patched in afterwards.

dont bother, loudest people are those who know the least. Almost all major 2016. releases had/will have DX12/Vulkan, and thats only 2016. I guess hes one of those people that few months ago yelled DX12 is 3-4 years away lol

 

[rtwjunkie]

sure dude, you dont even have a clue about DX12 games, DX12 adoption or anythiung else. The be a "realist" you first have to step into reality. Indie? You mean 8bit games that you can run on current smartphone? Thas your "leverage".

Yeah, now im laughing my socks out

obviously you're fuckin clueless. You're talking idiocy. You're a waste of all of our air. Go find yourself while I put you on ignore.

What's simply amazing is how little you know of the gaming industry if you think Indie = 8-bit.

 

[eidairaman1]

sure dude, you dont even have a clue about DX12 games, DX12 adoption or anything else. The be a "realist" you first have to step into reality. Indie? You mean 8bit games that you can run on current smartphone? Thas your "leverage".


Yeah, now im laughing my socks out

Fact is that this benchmark suite is good for measuring performance of 2-3 years ago and has nothing to do with todays or tomorrows performance and is good only if youre buying GPU for games of 2-3 years ago.



dont bother, loudest people are those who know the least. Almost all major 2016. releases had/will have DX12/Vulkan, and thats only 2016. I guess hes one of those people that few months ago yelled DX12 is 3-4 years away lol

CoughCough900u110r7coughcough.
Go elsewhere youre not welcome for trying to start fights here.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Might I suggest some of you calm down to a frenzy, take a breath and possibly even re-read the guidelines, assuming you had in the first place, any further insults/attacks and free holiday passes will be issued...... thank you.

 

[Malabooga]

ah, i see, some people have "special pass to troll" here

ok

 

[eidairaman1]

ah, i see, some people have "special pass to troll" here

ok

Actually no one does but you started it.

 

[Caring1]

As I have mentioned previously regarding the RX480, power consumption is a big negative tick against it's name for me.
It would be a no brainer to most people to put this card, or another brand in their cart, if it used half the power it currently does.
Hopefully AMD pulls their finger out and actually does something about it.
I'm really hoping changes like those in this article are an incentive for them.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/04/california_to_put_powerhungry_pcs_on_diet/

 

[Ungari]

As I have mentioned previously regarding the RX480, power consumption is a big negative tick against it's name for me.
It would be a no brainer to most people to put this card, or another brand in their cart, if it used half the power it currently does.
Hopefully AMD pulls their finger out and actually does something about it.
I'm really hoping changes like those in this article are an incentive for them.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/04/california_to_put_powerhungry_pcs_on_diet/

This whole Power Consumption issue is such a non-issue that has been pushed as a marketing point by Nvidia even though the difference is mere pennies per month.
Even the Etherium Mining community who live and die in the profit margins have chosen the RX 480 as the card of choice.
Every time I see the point brought up, I think of a parrot; "Power Consumption, the Power Consumption...caw caw rawwwk!" .

 

[dalekdukesboy]

Ok, how many other performance or consumption figures are you going to selectively ignore so you can profess your deep love for the rx 480 while mocking everyone who brings up facts about it you don't like? You can have your opinions, but you're not entitled to your own facts. How about rather than being a bird brain mocking people ironically calling them parrots you actually give us your factual positive reasons for the 480 (which of course there are) and maybe actually bring up facts about the 1060 and tell us why you prefer the 480 in comparison rather than just belittle and marginalize whoever actually happens to care about power consumption. Ironically I rarely even care about power consumption myself I care about how cool the card runs, how it performs, and is it not a hair dryer; that said stick to dealing with facts and give your opinions on those rather than just being insulting and flaming others' legitimate opinions.

 

[Ungari]

The fact is that power consumption on all these new cards are much lower than the last generations, and that the talking point itself is contrived as a sales feature/benefit by Nvidia, which is fine.
However, what I object to is when so called tech-savvy enthusiasts embrace this nonsense as if was some sort of dealbreaker, and keep spouting it incessantly as if it was really going to impact them.
Let's be honest; is someone who can afford $750 for a video card really pinching pennies each month to pay the electric company?

BTW Tom Baker is the one and only Doctor!

 

[dalekdukesboy]

Yep, long live Tom Baker! That tip of the hat aside I will say you destroy your own argument by saying "$750" card and power bill penny pinching when we are discussing a card that is barely a 1/3 as expensive as unnamed card you refer to by a 3/4 of a grand cost; So therefore you are undercutting your own argument by talking about a totally different group of consumers ( as in entry level enthusiasts versus high end enthusiasts like RX 480 users vs. highest end custom 1080 users)...And you are either intentionally or unintentionally misrepresenting the customer group we are talking about and therefore invalidating your own point.