Microsoft Entering Agreements with Laptop Makers to Block Linux

[Naito]

You probably don't realize you have the PC primarily because IBM opened up the BIOS spec...

This was only due to prior antitrust cases - otherwise it may have been a completely different story. Wintel allowed for hardware diversity while providing a common software platform. I doubt we'd have such a diverse range of hardware and peripherals in the PC market today if manufacturers of such had to target several different OS's with drivers and support...

So what? They got us here. Now they are abusing and ruining it

They want what Apple's got. And let's face it, brands and their respective ecosystems are going that way -it's easier to monetize a closed platform. You can thank Apple's successful business model for that. Google also throw their weight around more often than not too - Android, Chrome, search engine. Seems to be double standards around here.

In regards to OP, if you're buying a 'Signature Edition' from Microsoft, wouldn't you expect it to be somewhat locked down? You are getting the 'premium Windows experience'...

 

[TRWOV]

What. Did you really think Lenovo would put a big sign that siad "Yes, we agreed with M$ that we would only allow installations of their OS." Seriously?

The limitation is the NVMe RAID. Linux currently doesn't have support for it.

The rep that replied to the 1 star review probably didn't have all the technical information about what prevented Linux to be installed and just assumed it was due to the Windows Signature edition being exclusive to the laptop.

This wasn't a support rep replying to a support ticket, just some sales rep replying back to a review on Best Buy's site. If you'd ever been to a Best Buy you'd know that they aren't exactly the most knowledgeable folks when it comes to technical questions (with it's exceptions of course).

 

[HD64G]

Same dirty tactics again. Pushing Win10, auto-installing Win10, now blocking changing Win10. Those moves make me to totally disgust MS and their practices.

 

[TRWOV]

Same dirty tactics again. Pushing Win10, auto-installing Win10, now blocking changing Win10. Those moves make me to totally disgust MS and their practices.

How is Microsoft's fault that Linux doesn't support NVMe RAID?

Again, the "statement" comes from a Best Buy sales rep that probably didn't know better.

 

[bug]

The limitation is the NVMe RAID. Linux currently doesn't have support for it.

The rep that replied to the 1 star review probably didn't have all the technical information about what prevented Linux to be installed and just assumed it was due to the Windows Signature edition being exclusive to the laptop.

This wasn't a support rep replying to a support ticket, just some sales rep replying back to a review on Best Buy's site. If you'd ever been to a Best Buy you'd know that they aren't exactly the most knowledgeable folks when it comes to technical questions (with it's exceptions of course).

Indeed, NVMe RAID seems to be a rather exotic thing at the moment, so chances are this is squarely on Lenovo for disabling BIOS/UEFI options: http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-buzz/understanding-m2-3xraid0-nvme-boot-performance/

Limited BIOS/UEFI is one of the reasons I hate laptops.

 

[HD64G]

How is Microsoft's fault that Linux doesn't support NVMe RAID?

Again, the "statement" comes from a Best Buy sales rep that probably didn't know better.

Lenovo's response on the ticket shows an agreement which I critisized.

 

[TRWOV]

Lenovo's response on the ticket shows an agreement which I critisized.

It's not a support ticket, is a sales rep response to a 1 star review on Best Buy's site. @btarunr mentions a "ticket" but I guess is just an oversight.

Heck, the 1 star review even tells the whole story, I don't know why people don't read it.

 

[bug]

It's not a support ticket, is a sales rep response to a 1 star review on Best Buy's site. @btarunr mentions a "ticket" but I guess is just an oversight.

Nevertheless, it is was he was criticising

 

[Giggles]

Indeed, NVMe RAID seems to be a rather exotic thing at the moment, so chances are this is squarely on Lenovo for disabling BIOS/UEFI options: http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-buzz/understanding-m2-3xraid0-nvme-boot-performance/

Limited BIOS/UEFI is one of the reasons I hate laptops.

You are correct, the fault lies entirely on UEFI forum for not providing some specifications or certification which would ensure that the users have at least the most basic options available. I have been telling people that for years.

Someone should check product page if there is a manual with firmware options, when I was going to buy E560, I checked all the options in the manual.

Microsoft is innocent until proven guilty, or if you want you can blame Microsoft but remember how would you feel if someone kidnapped you and held you in some detention camp. Be vigilant and not vindictive for the past Microsoft sins.

 

[iO]

Without the driver from Intel you can only install the specific OEM recovery image, no other retail Windows, not even Win10.

How is this Microsofts fault and not Intels?

 

[TRWOV]

In a nutshell:
1. Guys buying the Yoga 900S wanted to run Linux on it.
2. The BIOS is locked into a custom RAID mode that Linux can't install to... neither vanilla Windows 10 for that matter.
3. Guys in Lenovo forums ask for a way to enable AHCI and Lenovo doesn't help them.
4. A guy posts a 1 star review on Best Buy's site warning people about this issue.
5. A Lenovo sales rep on Best Buy's site that probably didn't know better says that is because they have an agreement with Microsoft.
6. Shitstorm ensues.

 

[alucasa]

It feels like a lot here are commenting just based on the thread title or just skimmed through.

 

[ensabrenoir]

.....wonder if we can all ambush apple and make them open their software to be installed on anything.......

 

[TRWOV]

Now you know people, if Linux doesn't have support for a hardware feature it's Microsoft's fault... somehow

The Linux kernel that Unraid 5 uses doesn't fully support my built in network chip and had to get a network card. I guess I should blame Microsoft too... for some reason.

 

[Vayra86]

Why is it against the law to include a piece of hardware that is not supported on all operating systems?
Is it against the law to produce ARM based tablet that can install android and not blackberry os? (Not by blocking, mind you, but for example by using some exotic wireless network controller)

In the case of Microsoft and its near-monopoly of Windows OS, yes, it might very well be against the law to lock a piece of hardware into Windows and Windows alone. It is a similar situation as the Internet Explorer lock-in.

If this is just all about NVME support, a BIOS fix will do the trick and also seems like the likely solution. Will be interesting to see Lenovo's official response on this...

 

[alucasa]

One could argue that Lenovo should have *nix driver ready but that's stretching a lot since Lenovo isn't known to support unix of any kind.

 

[TRWOV]

In the case of Microsoft and its near-monopoly of Windows OS, yes, it might very well be against the law to lock a piece of hardware into Windows and Windows alone. It is a similar situation as the Internet Explorer lock-in.

If this is just all about NVME support, a BIOS fix will do the trick and also seems like the likely solution. Will be interesting to see Lenovo's official response on this...

Lenovo already replied:
http://www.techrepublic.com/article/lenovo-denies-deliberately-blocking-linux-on-windows-10-pcs/

To improve performance, the industry is moving to RAID on the SSDs and Lenovo is leading with this change, Lenovo does not block customers using other operating systems on its devices but relies on the alternative operating system vendors to release appropriate drivers.
When the appropriate drivers and kernel support are in place for Linux-based operating systems users will be able to install the operating system on an SSD with RAID.

This comes from a company rep, not a random store sales rep.

About the BIOS fix, they already said they won't supply one, that was what triggered the 1 star review in the first place.

 

[Patriot]

It is a proprietary raid on nvme... there will never be an opensauce driver for it.
they need to allow un binding of the drives so customers can choose the config...

 

[Easo]

I'm sorry, you "know" this?

So.... we're really in the need of a couple hundred thousand.. not a lot, just enough to make some problems go away, and get us back on our feet. Could you get me the winning numbers for a small jackpot?

Matthew Garrett should be enough in this case, no?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Garrett
Because the reddit I linked leads to his blog (http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/44694.html), where he plainly says that this is not MS doing.

 

[Assimilator]

Oh my god this is such disgusting FUD from TPU.

Microsoft is not blocking anything or anyone. It's Lenovo who have chosen to use a proprietary NVMe RAID controller and only write a Windows driver for it. If you want a Linux driver, yell at Lenovo to write one, or get off your fat ass and write one yourself (isn't that what open source is all about?).

But nope, Linux fanboys would rather blame Microsoft (spelled with a dollar sign because that's edgy and cool) because that's easier than actually trying to understand what's actually going on, and also because they are subhuman and/or certifiably retarded. As some of the posters in this thread have demonstrated.

These are the same people who vote in elections for important things like splitting from Europe and choosing the next US president. And we wonder why the world is screwed.

 

[dozenfury]

The sad part is that this kind of thing has been going on for awhile, just less blatantly by intentionally not providing drivers or doing it very, very, slowly (like taking 2+ years). The fact that they'd actually sign an agreement in a contract like this, has to have lawyers chomping at the bit on this one.

 

[yogurt_21]

what a mess

so lenovo did a bad bios, intel has a new req for better power management and somehow that deathspiraled into linux vs microsoft...

I mean seriously we have a group of models from one brand (not even a manufacturer, they farm that out) with a dumb bios and suddenly the world had ended satan is here and he demands you switch to windows 10... way to fan the fire y'all.

 

[ironwolf]

So I presume that this issue with Linux compatibility would be resolved if someone crafted up driver support for this unusual setup? I would think that some intrepid Linux lover would be working on that.

 

[BiggieShady]

Linux compatibility would be resolved if someone crafted up driver support for this unusual setup?

More like painstakingly reverse engineer complete raid controller logic because it's proprietary stuff ... that takes huge amount of time all for unstable and mediocre result. If it was for example an audio driver, occasional bugs wouldn't mean much, but this one needs to be bugless

 

[Patriot]

More like painstakingly reverse engineer complete raid controller logic because it's proprietary stuff ... that takes huge amount of time all for unstable and mediocre result. If it was for example an audio driver, occasional bugs wouldn't mean much, but this one needs to be bugless

No one here posting besides us seems to understand drivers ... All they have to do is allow the drives to be passed through instead of using their proprietary (probably software) raid. And let Linux users mdadm them.
This is not hard, if you are not purposefully trying to lock out other OS's...