NVIDIA Stock Tumbles Amidst Analyst Talk of Gaming's Decline

[Xaled]

..and this is for people who are saying Titan is not a gaming card.

 

[Fluffmeister]

Of course it's a gaming card, and real enthusiasts have at least two.

http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/timespy+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.0/2+gpu

 

[Manu_PT]

Wow, I bow to your superior intellect and knowledge.

Of course it appears you are unaware of the sheer numbers and near balance between PC's and consoles, so I can understand your misplaced statement.

No "superior intellect knowledge". Don´t pretend I´m acting like that. I´m just saying it by reading. I will give you some links that make me think like that, if you don´t agree with me you are free to contest them, I don´t like to say something just out of my mouth, without any base:

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?l=

http://www.pcgamer.com/pc-gaming-market-worth-36-billion-in-2016/

These 2 links tell us that 72% of steam users are on Dota 2 and CS:GO. Also tell us that "Once again, free-to-play leads the way." and that "while the free-to-play and esports markets are expected to see continued healthy growth over the next three years, the "premium" PC games market is predicted to decline", where the facebook and f2p games lead the revenue numbers, AAA games decline.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

This link tell us that most PC gamers use 1366x768 and 1080p displays, with only 2% using 1440p and upwards.

This link is just one game stat, but is the only one I would find for direct comparasion: http://bf1stats.com/ Where we can see the userbase size on console in Battlefield is 6 times bigger than the PC one. I´m talking about a game that was originally a PC masterpiece (Battlefied 1942 and 2142). Altho this analysis on this game is subjetive because as we all know the userbase is shrinking because the game has too many haxors around (as easy as going on google and download wallhack file).

And, finally, I read this article 2 days ago wich someone linked me:

https://www.vg247.com/2017/01/23/mo...-is-the-consoles-software-attach-rate-report/

I wasn´t aware at all that PS4 is beating stuff like NES, Gameboy and Wii, with the biggest attach rate ever and most units sold in the same time, wich clearly shows console market is growing. PS4 is making history basically.

I repeat, I´m not superior like you said (maybe you being salty? idk), I´m just quoting links to form my opinion by reading them. If I´m wrong? Maybe, I will accept if I do, but unless you throw your arguments to the table like an adult, instead of saying that I think "I´m superior intelligence", I will just ignore you.

Cheers

 

[rtwjunkie]

Well you missed a few things. PC gaming market driven by free to play AND downloadable games. Keep in mind that very few games are sold as physical copies anymore. For practical purposes we can say 90% of games are "downloadable." So your argument is flawed by conveniently leaving half the sentence out.

You also ignored from the same PC Gamer link you provided the almost equal amounts of money made from consoles and PC gaming, just as I said in my earlier post. You also ignore the same PC Gamer article points to a mere 100 million drop in income predicted for this year only before bouncing back up.

 

[Manu_PT]

I didn´t ignore it. I never said PC gaming is on decline. I said PC gaming is all about F2P low demanding games (hardware wise), while AAA games sell more on consoles. And this the reason why most ppl use low-end hardware. Wich relates to this article about nvidia GPUs, and to steamstats most used hardware.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Then you, good sir, have never Star Citizen'd.

Also, have a look at this. For Honor is pretty much #1 on every PC digital download platform that offers it. Yeah, it isn't PC exclusive but when titles sell by the tens of thousands on all platforms, why does it matter?

Steam Hardware Survey pops up on all computers with Steam installed. I occasionally install Steam on my crappy laptop, for example, because I'm going some where. One doesn't need an amazing computer to play amazing games like Undertale. At the same time, Stardew Valley won't even start on it.

The demand for newer graphics hardware is driven mostly by the push for higher resolutions. Soon, it will also be driven by the push for HDR.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I said PC gaming is all about F2P low demanding games (hardware wise), while AAA games sell more on consoles

Except it's not, just as per your PC Gamer link states "AND downloadable games". There is no basis for your statement that AAA games are sold mostly on consoles and non AAA games mostly on PC.

The breakdown in income from game sales is nearly equal between PC and consoles. I would argue that the PC is the realm of more hardcore gamers, while console gaming is primarily (not all tho) the realm of casual kiddies and teens.

 

[Mistral]

It's not gaming decline, NV stock just badly needs a reality check. It's still higher than it has any business being.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Investors got too excited about deep learning, me thinks. I think they expected it to draw attention beyond autonomous cars/trucks and it hasn't.

 

[medi01]

LOL.

And alcohol sales will drop, too.

Well, was the NUMBER OF CARDS increasing year on year? I doubt it.
The record sales of this year are mostly driven by insane price hike on mid-high range GPUs (we has the same story with CPUs).
314mm^2 chip for 700$ anyone?

It is reasonable to expect pricing of at least mid range cards to drop this year. (Vega simply can't not beat 1080)

 

[Manu_PT]

Then you, good sir, have never Star Citizen'd.

Also, have a look at this. For Honor is pretty much #1 on every PC digital download platform that offers it. Yeah, it isn't PC exclusive but when titles sell by the tens of thousands on all platforms, why does it matter?

Steam Hardware Survey pops up on all computers with Steam installed. I occasionally install Steam on my crappy laptop, for example, because I'm going some where. One doesn't need an amazing computer to play amazing games like Undertale. At the same time, Stardew Valley won't even start on it.

The demand for newer graphics hardware is driven mostly by the push for higher resolutions. Soon, it will also be driven by the push for HDR.

Ok, star citizen, one game. Awesome... we are talking about stuff like Nioh, Horizon, Uncharted, Bloodborne, TLOU, Gravity Rush - exclusive wise - or multiplat like fifa, call of duty, titanfall or battlefield, wich sell much more on consoles. You mentioned 1 game, ok.

Also what´s the thing with For Honor? Is a 8 rated game that is doing well on both PC and consoles, doesn´t prove anything.

As for the steam survey, big falacy there mate. You are basically telling me that by "accident" only people with weaker hardware did the survey... that doesn´t go well with maths law about statistics.

If on the next USA president elections, the first stats say that after 1 million inquiries, Trump leads by 2%, you can expect some margin error sure, when you count with 20 million. But don´t expect anything more than 5% to 7%, max. So no one can assure you that if every one completed steam survey that high-end hardware would have more %. Why is that? lol makes no sense. Is a statistic, sure may not be 100% correct, but it isn´t also 50% incorrect. Simple Maths.

HDR? You have HDR on consoles already on many games, so that doesn´t seem to be a reason to buy high-end PC hardware. All the new sony exclusives have HDR, same with some multiplatforms like fifa and call of duty, for example.

Except it's not, just as per your PC Gamer link states "AND downloadable games". There is no basis for your statement that AAA games are sold mostly on consoles and non AAA games mostly on PC.

The breakdown in income from game sales is nearly equal between PC and consoles. I would argue that the PC is the realm of more hardcore gamers, while console gaming is primarily (not all tho) the realm of casual kiddies and teens.

My basis is this:

Battlefield 1 players today:

PC - 38k online - 42k peak
Console - 217k online - 237k peak

almost 6 times more.

Also this:

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?l

Call of Duty players on PC - 5k. On consoles is like 300k at least. You can´t even play anything else than TDM gamemode on PC in this game. Not to mention the hacking going around.

FIFA 17 PC - Takes at least 5 minutes to get matched against an oponent on Online seasons game mode and all the FUT prices are triple of console, because of next to no demand. Ronaldo price on FUT PC is crazy and almost impossible to reach, because the userbase is small.

Or from the fact that from the top 20 games with bigger userbase, only 2 are actually multiplat AAA games: GTA V and Fallout 4. Is there on steamstats. Or will you tell me again that bf1stats and steamstats are only counting weak laptops playing games?

I just bring facts, you guys are talking like you knew the truth but without any links to backup your assumptions.

I even linked to two sources saying that Pc gaming is growing on Facebook and f2p games, but declining on Premium games, and a graph where you could easily see from where the revenue comes mostly: League of Legends, Dota 2, CS:GO, World of Tanks, Heartstone and World of Warcraft. The other games have "niches" playing them, in comparasion. Once again, facts.

If you can´t accept the facts you start to be what we call fanboy or PC elitists, that deny anything that might be against the platform itself. Same happens to console fanboys when they can´t accept that PC is objectively superior.

All in all, fanboyism is bad. Learn to understand facts, graphs, statistics. Use your brain to make a full good analysis of it and make a non-biased conclusion. Instead of just saying "these statistics proove nothing, I will ignore them because they don´t go the way I really wanted them to".

 

[rtwjunkie]

Yeah great. Pull out a couple games from your ass. Btw, FB doesn't count as PC gaming. WhoTheFuck cares about BF1singular example numbers. Your own provided links earlier show the total income for PC's and consoles is near even. So....maybe enjoy your console you are obviously so proud of.

In closing, let ME give YOU a one-off example, since you think singular, selective examples are indicative of the industry. Go look up TW3 sales. Largest amount? GOG. 2nd? Steam. As far as I know, those are PC gaming.

 

[Manu_PT]

Yeah great. Pull out a couple games from your ass. Btw, FB doesn't count as PC gaming. WhoTheFuck cares about BF1singular example numbers. Your own provided links earlier show the total income for PC's and consoles is near even. So....maybe enjoy your console you are obviously so proud of.

In closing, let ME give YOU a one-off example, since you think singular, selective examples are indicative of the industry. Go look up TW3 sales. Largest amount? GOG. 2nd? Steam. As far as I know, those are PC gaming.

No one said PC income is lower or different from console income. Is my english that bad? FFS if you read all my posts on the matter I only said AAA gaming is stronger on consoles than PCs! AAA gaming is what reguires more powerful hardware! (you can´t play Watch Dogs 2 or Mafia 3 or Witcher 3 decently on a Intel HD4000 laptop). I said e-sports titles, f2p games, moba, mmo, rts, simulators, are better or only good on PC! And these are the games that make revenue for the platform. Not my fault that you can´t understand that I´m not defending any platform over the other, I game more on my PC than what I do on console anyway.

Also, what do you mean with TW3? The Witcher 3? You are so wrong again mate.. your problem is not providing links:

https://gamerant.com/the-witcher-3-sales-pc-consoles-125/

"Considering CD Projekt Red’s penchant for PC gaming, one would assume that their fan base would consist mostly of PC gamers, and therefore, the majority of the sales for The Witcher 3 would’ve been for the PC version. As it turns out, that’s not the case."

"In fact, the console versions of The Witcher 3 comprised 70% of the game’s sales, with the PC version representing the other 30%"

Whatever.... I should have learned when the other guy said "never debate with a pc elitist"

Love it or hate it, there isn´t a single AAA multiplatform game that sold more units on PC compared to its console counterpart. Not a single one. Or, at least, I couldn´t find any link sayiing otherwise on my google search session. Every game sold more units on console. If there is one link me because I like to read and learn.

 

[mcborge]

Analysts, what do they know...

 

[FordGT90Concept]

No one said PC income is lower or different from console income. Is my english that bad? FFS if you read all my posts on the matter I only said AAA gaming is stronger on consoles than PCs! AAA gaming is what reguires more powerful hardware! (you can´t play Watch Dogs 2 or Mafia 3 or Witcher 3 decently on a Intel HD4000 laptop). I said e-sports titles, f2p games, moba, mmo, rts, simulators, are better or only good on PC! And these are the games that make revenue for the platform. Not my fault that you can´t understand that I´m not defending any platform over the other, I game more on my PC than what I do on console anyway.

Also, what do you mean with TW3? The Witcher 3? You are so wrong again mate.. your problem is not providing links:

https://gamerant.com/the-witcher-3-sales-pc-consoles-125/

"Considering CD Projekt Red’s penchant for PC gaming, one would assume that their fan base would consist mostly of PC gamers, and therefore, the majority of the sales for The Witcher 3 would’ve been for the PC version. As it turns out, that’s not the case."

"In fact, the console versions of The Witcher 3 comprised 70% of the game’s sales, with the PC version representing the other 30%"

Whatever.... I should have learned when the other guy said "never debate with a pc elitist"

Love it or hate it, there isn´t a single AAA multiplatform game that sold more units on PC compared to its console counterpart. Not a single one. Or, at least, I couldn´t find any link sayiing otherwise on my google search session. Every game sold more units on console. If there is one link me because I like to read and learn.

35% PS4, 35% XB1, 30% PC, seems legit especially considering that game takes serious hardware to play smooth (way more money than a console). Only serious gamers have all three platforms so they tend to buy titles for whatever platform they prefer (or more than one in some cases). Also don't forget that PC's lifecycle is much longer than any singular console. Check sales in a decade and PC sales will far exceed that of consoles.

 

[Manu_PT]

35% PS4, 35% XB1, 30% PC, seems legit especially considering that game takes serious hardware to play smooth (way more money than a console). Only serious gamers have all three platforms so they tend to buy titles for whatever platform they prefer (or more than one in some cases). Also don't forget that PC's lifecycle is much longer than any singular console. Check sales in a decade and PC sales will far exceed that of consoles.

And another one... I´m really dumb by talking about consoles on techpowerup, I should have known what would happen next.

Listen, if we don´t separate Microsoft Windows users and Linux Users or desktop and laptop users, why would we separate console gamers as microsoft and sony? Makes no sense, i´m talking about consoles, I´m not talking about PS4 or Xbox specifically. Each one buys the console he wants, each one uses the OS he wants. Witcher 3 sold 70% on consoles, it was bought by console gamers. I´m not talking about any console specifically. If we split the sale numbers between laptops and desktops, for sure we had different numbers too.,

But whatever.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Actually the most recent numbers are here, and though 30% is still the PC total, one contributor below lists the actual number of PS4 copies,
https://www.vg247.com/2016/03/10/the-witcher-franchise-has-sold-20-million-copies-worldwide/
which would make the PS4 44% and the xbox at 26%. Since PC's are a system, its only fair to look at sony and MS consoles separately.

My apologies, the last numbers I had looked at prior to today had the PC in the lead. Nevertheless, as @FordGT90Concept says, PC games tend to continue to sell long after consoles, and even moreso if they are moddable.

Speaking of moddable, Skyrim recently surpassed 30 million http://www.glixel.com/interviews/sk...alks-switch-vr-and-elder-scrolls-wait-w451761 .
This is where the long term tortise comes in. Todd Howard even talks about the modding being the key for the continuing PC sales.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/18/apparently-we-wont-hear-about-fallout-4-for-a-while/

No point in arguing any real numbers, since Skyrim only sold on Steam for PC, and Valve does not release sales figures.

 

[SaltyFish]

Don't see anything wrong with ~ "valuation and a tempered outlook for gaming."

The Ryzen APU & Vega GPU both will hit Nvidia hard, in gaming, especially if there's an HBM2 APU released later in the year, though I'd expect them to debut no sooner than 2018.

Pretty much that. That tempered outlook thing is important and people seem to miss that. It just means people are holding back.

It could be:
1. There hasn't been a massive jump in performance in new products to get PC hardware enthusiasts excited (Intel has slowed down on its CPU march, FuryX's HBM was the last major noteworthy thing... heck, some people are fine with their GPU from two or three generations ago)
2. PC hardware enthusiasts are holding out for some upcoming release (Ryzen, Vega, 1080Ti, etc.) though this overlaps a bit with the previous reason.
3. The parents of teenage gamers have begun tightening credit card access (a major source of income for PC gaming)

 

[The Jedi]

The Ryzen APU & Vega GPU both will hit Nvidia hard, in gaming, especially if there's an HBM2 APU released later in the year, though I'd expect them to debut no sooner than 2018.

Can AMD put HBM2 memory on a CPU package? If so that would be a really interesting possibility, considering PC APUs so far have been lower performing than one would've thought.

And I mean on that note, HBM built into the CPU could compete with Intel's Optane cache memory, right?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I expect next gen consoles to have exactly that. I can't see it happening in the PC space because how much memory people need is highly variable.

 

[Caring1]

Can AMD put HBM2 memory on a CPU package? If so that would be a really interesting possibility, considering PC APUs so far have been lower performing than one would've thought.

And I mean on that note, HBM built into the CPU could compete with Intel's Optane cache memory, right?

I would expect it to be similar to eDram that Intel used on Haswell.
More as a cache than as typical Ram.

 

[remixedcat]

The decline of gaming can be blamed on lazy devs that can't make games that don't crash every hour, and the lack of money people have to spend on games as a result of crappy governmental policies like outsourcing and offshoring... Nobody has the money to beta test for these greedy game devs that blow the money on lavish offices in SF and Stockholm instead of paying devs good money and investing in better technologies.

 

[Vayra86]

Ok, star citizen, one game. Awesome... we are talking about stuff like Nioh, Horizon, Uncharted, Bloodborne, TLOU, Gravity Rush - exclusive wise - or multiplat like fifa, call of duty, titanfall or battlefield, wich sell much more on consoles. You mentioned 1 game, ok.

Also what´s the thing with For Honor? Is a 8 rated game that is doing well on both PC and consoles, doesn´t prove anything.

As for the steam survey, big falacy there mate. You are basically telling me that by "accident" only people with weaker hardware did the survey... that doesn´t go well with maths law about statistics.

If on the next USA president elections, the first stats say that after 1 million inquiries, Trump leads by 2%, you can expect some margin error sure, when you count with 20 million. But don´t expect anything more than 5% to 7%, max. So no one can assure you that if every one completed steam survey that high-end hardware would have more %. Why is that? lol makes no sense. Is a statistic, sure may not be 100% correct, but it isn´t also 50% incorrect. Simple Maths.

HDR? You have HDR on consoles already on many games, so that doesn´t seem to be a reason to buy high-end PC hardware. All the new sony exclusives have HDR, same with some multiplatforms like fifa and call of duty, for example.



My basis is this:

Battlefield 1 players today:

PC - 38k online - 42k peak
Console - 217k online - 237k peak

almost 6 times more.

Also this:

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?l

Call of Duty players on PC - 5k. On consoles is like 300k at least. You can´t even play anything else than TDM gamemode on PC in this game. Not to mention the hacking going around.

FIFA 17 PC - Takes at least 5 minutes to get matched against an oponent on Online seasons game mode and all the FUT prices are triple of console, because of next to no demand. Ronaldo price on FUT PC is crazy and almost impossible to reach, because the userbase is small.

Or from the fact that from the top 20 games with bigger userbase, only 2 are actually multiplat AAA games: GTA V and Fallout 4. Is there on steamstats. Or will you tell me again that bf1stats and steamstats are only counting weak laptops playing games?

I just bring facts, you guys are talking like you knew the truth but without any links to backup your assumptions.

I even linked to two sources saying that Pc gaming is growing on Facebook and f2p games, but declining on Premium games, and a graph where you could easily see from where the revenue comes mostly: League of Legends, Dota 2, CS:GO, World of Tanks, Heartstone and World of Warcraft. The other games have "niches" playing them, in comparasion. Once again, facts.

If you can´t accept the facts you start to be what we call fanboy or PC elitists, that deny anything that might be against the platform itself. Same happens to console fanboys when they can´t accept that PC is objectively superior.

All in all, fanboyism is bad. Learn to understand facts, graphs, statistics. Use your brain to make a full good analysis of it and make a non-biased conclusion. Instead of just saying "these statistics proove nothing, I will ignore them because they don´t go the way I really wanted them to".

Facts too:
763,981 873,605 Dota 2
398,538 693,275 Counter-Strike: Global Offensive

Stable for a few years now, like this. You mentioned this as well, but you draw the wrong conclusion based on those numbers. You say high end games are only niches on PC. I say that high end games were never a niche to begin with, its just a category of games that nobody really attributes any special value to, which makes sense because the overall quality of these 'high end' games has been declining ever since the release of the PS3. It's fact as well that the hardcore gamers consolidate on PC and that the casual gamers consolidate on the consoles. Logical, but it also says a lot about the overall quality of gaming on both these platforms. Consoles suffer from simplified games, and as a result, they cater to a different part of the market. Console gamers jump from one triple-A spoonfeeder title to the next, no wonder concurrent players on recent games are higher.

PC on the other hand has:
- an extremely diverse target audience
- a massive playerbase outside of Steam
- MMO's like WoW that still run over 6-7 *million* subs, of which the vast majority is active because monthly fee
- Free to play
- Browser gaming
- LAN gaming
- Self-run servers
- An absolutely limitless library of games that spans across more than two decades of releases, all fully backwards compatible.
- Modded games like Skyrim, almost every isometric strategy game and 4X, lots of others

PC gaming has been called dead and forgotten many times, yet it still represents a platform that consoles cannot match in any way shape or form. The only tangible advantage of the console is its plug-and-play simplicity, but even that has taken a huge hit since the PS4 and paid online, large game installs and craploads of OTA updates.

 

[Manu_PT]

Once again, no one said pc gaming is dead or dying. I just said AAA gaming on PC is way smaller than consoles. Everything else you said and every topic you wrote is absolutely right.

However, AAA games is what makes people buy high-end GPUs. That´s all I said. All the PC advantages you mentioned on those 9 topics, can be achieved with an Intel HD520 iGPU + Dual Core i5 6200u, on a 350 bucks laptop. And that´s what you find on most ppl houses. A low to mid spec computer (laptop or desktop), because almost everyone has one, and... a console.

 

[Vayra86]

Once again, no one said pc gaming is dead or dying. I just said AAA gaming on PC is way smaller than consoles. Everything else you said and every topic you wrote is absolutely right.

However, AAA games is what makes people buy high-end GPUs. That´s all I said. All the PC advantages you mentioned on those 9 topics, can be achieved with an Intel HD520 iGPU + Dual Core i5 6200u, on a 350 bucks laptop. And that´s what you find on most ppl houses. A low to mid spec computer (laptop or desktop), because almost everyone has one, and... a console.

Yes, and what you see happening on PC is that almost half of the playerbase on PC is actually also driving a high-end system, only 25% is on low-end, and year-over-year there is a trend towards an ever growing % of high end systems. So your assumption about PC gaming and high end is flawed in that sense. Again: this is a very diverse population, but it is also a flexible one, and since a half-decent gaming PC from five years ago can actually still compete today, (and also: realistically does compete today with current gen consoles) the definition of high end or 'triple A gaming' is a very difficult one to make so clearly.

I remember the outrage when No Man's Sky wouldn't run on many a gamers' old Phenom CPU. That alone speaks volumes of the diversity of systems in the PC market. A decline in PC gaming is very easy to see because there is no fixed upgrade cycle for ANYONE - it depends not on the release of a new console, not on a new iteration of API's like DX12 (you don't see everyone building new PCs all of a sudden) or a new OS like Windows 10. It does not even depend on the release of new hardware, because as we've seen with Intel's offerings but also on GPU, new hardware does not mean a faster machine, it just means that similar performance is available at a lower price point, and a new tier of performance gets added on top.

And this, is why a release such as Star Citizen is extremely relevant as an indicator of the popularity of PC gaming. PC gamers upgrade their rigs according to only ONE motivation: the release of a new game that requires it. A slow year for PC gaming, riddled with console ports on dated hardware, is a slow year for PC hardware. Now, with the updated console specs ánd 4K, the resolution bump on monitors as a whole, a handful of PC exclusives, ánd the return of competition on CPU, we will likely see a new surge in PC gaming for 2017.