You Really Shouldn't Delid AMD's Ryzen 7 CPUs

[peche]

The reason: attempting to delid said processors cost overclocking genius der8auer a grand total of 3 (three!) Ryzen 7 samples before he managed to do it without damaging the processor.

yeah, wise... took 3 samples to find out that was soldered and delid wont help that much... sorry but...

 

[theonedub]

@Raevenlord Title should read "You Really Shouldn't Delid AMD's Ryzen 7 CPUs"

 

[OneCool]

If your heatsink is copper and lapped and you lapped the CPU it will remove the coating on the spreader and it will be copper. Im sure a copper to copper contact would help some but not enough to kill the warranty on a brand new CPU. Maybe when the warranty is up.

 

[Hnykill22]

For a 2ºC decrease, fuck no. AMD did a good job with thermal solution on this chip. give it a proper cooler and you are done. i don't even think lapping it would do any better than delid. and it gave just 2ºC decrease, so no it is as good as it gets there.

 

[Fluffmeister]

Yeah all credit for the effort, but these things are hardly.... *drum roll* .... an overclockers dream.

 

[arnold_al_qadr]

intel didn't soldered 7700k because of small die size, check this thread by der8auer

http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/

 

[eidairaman1]

I wonder if lapping would help any. I'm guessing no.

Shaves off a few degrees when done properly to the ihs and the hs.

 

[GreiverBlade]

well indeed no, you shouldn't ... it's not a 7700K where it's mandatory .... ok ok ... a 7700K Overclock better ... (but the heat issue with it was not only during OC and 3.8 goes toe to toe with 5.0 .... joke... )

ok my next swap will be red, but for now i still have time till early issues are sorted out and maybe till a slight price drop

Yeah all credit for the effort, but these things are hardly.... *drum roll* .... an overclockers dream.

well they don't need a hight OC to reach them ... it seems

edit: what about a 8 core 4.3 4.4 wall ... my 6600K does not OC past 4.4 (4.48 under custom loop ) ... it's fine ... 5ghz 7700K are common or was it only ES that did that

one small question ... what's the highest X99 top dog OC? (i mean 24/24 7/7 ... not LN2 nonsense )

yeah, wise... took 3 samples to find out that was soldered and delid wont help that much... sorry but...

@peche peche peche ... do you do it on purpose ...he did use 3 to until he managed tho delid the 3rd without damaging it, he probably already knew it was soldered even before the 1st attempt ... so ... yep that guy is a genius (tho a real genius would have achieve it in 1 attempt ... )

are you still mad at him because of the Thermal Grizzly post in your thread? (what did you wanted to know ... he perfectly answered )

and also the fact that it only give 2° less ... well in that case AMD is the genius ... on a 7700K it translate in 30° drop

 

[Super XP]

Power users sometimes really go the extra mile towards achieving the best performance on their hardware. And sometimes, this process includes delidding, as in, removing the processor's Integrated Heatspreader (IHS). This would allow for users to sometimes replace less than perfect TIM (Thermal Interface Material) companies use, achieving lower operating temperatures, and possibly even higher overclocks.

Well, you really shouldn't try to do so with AMD's Ryzen 7. The reason: attempting to delid said processors cost overclocking genius der8auer a grand total of 3 (three!) Ryzen 7 samples before he managed to do it without damaging the processor. This happens because contrary to other CPUs, AMD's Ryzen 7 IHS comes soldered to the chip, which obviously increases difficulty and risk of such a delidding process. Apparently, AMD did a pretty good job with the thermal interfaces of Ryzen 7 anyway - der8auer achieved only a 2ºC decrease in operating temperatures on the delidded Ryzen sample. Long story short: maybe it's not worth it. Especially if your cooling solution of choice isn't able to achieve proper contact with the CPU after the process. You can see a video of the direct cooling test, after the break.

Is it me or is he putting too much thermal paste on the CPU? Because wouldn't that spill over onto the actual chip once you place the heatsink on? Squeezing them together? I thought a small ball of thermal paste is only required, in the centre of the CPU.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Is it me or is he putting too much thermal paste on the CPU? Because wouldn't that spill over onto the actual chip once you place the heatsink on? Squeezing them together? I thought a small ball of thermal paste is only required, in the centre of the CPU.

They're solder pads not Tim so they'll be designed per use I'd imagine ,be fine.
It's humourous the random stuff on the net sometimes, i read somewhere on the webz that RyZen has sensors attached to it's IHS and delidding would damage these , looks to be nonsense that though looking at these pics.

 

[Mussels]

well good to know its not worth it as AMD did a good job

Also if you would go through the trouble of Delidding, idk why on earth you would put the ermm lid, back on it.
Leave it off and get something like a:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-...qXY8UG8g/43a03bcb822e_1417122141649341871.jpg

and connect the cooler directly.

not every cooler can be mounted lower. i delidded my 3770k and just stuck my IHS back on with liquid metal ultra, huge temp differences and compatible with all coolers.

 

[TheDeeGee]

This isn't cheapo Intel garbage, AMD does stuff properly and they soldered IHS on top of it. Like every CPU should be.

Even with Intel TIM you can OC the hell out of it and still have acceptable temps with an Air Cooler.

Try that with a Ryzen which can't be OCed at all without Thermal Throttling. AMD has a long way to go, Soldered IHS or not.

That being said, i hope AMD does get there, Ryzen is a great start for sure as an All-Round CPU.

 

[cdawall]

Even with Intel TIM you can OC the hell out of it and still have acceptable temps with an Air Cooler.

Try that with a Ryzen which can't be OCed at all without Thermal Throttling. AMD has a long way to go, Soldered IHS or not.

That being said, i hope AMD does get there, Ryzen is a great start for sure as an All-Round CPU.

What amd chip is thermal throttling? I experienced 60C load temps with my 1800x.

 

[DarkHill]

soooo.. 2 points:

1. this "news" is almost a week old

2. All the AMD fanbois in this thread seem to miss that Intel also solder their HEDT cpus.

 

[bug]

deliding to clean up the cheapest grey paste garbage is for intel chips only.

Eh, HardOCP did it for Kaby Lake. A better paste lowered the temps a bit, but did not improve overclocking at all. So whatever intel put in there is already good enough. Of course, an enthusiast will delid no matter what.

 

[EarthDog]

On average, you are seeing 5-10C drops. It's only worth it if you are temp limited and have more voltage headroom.

(Kaby Lake)

 

[Ruru]

AFAIK the older FX chips were also soldered.

 

[GreiverBlade]

2. All the AMD fanbois in this thread seem to miss that Intel also solder their HEDT cpus.

you seems to miss the price point of the highest model of Ryzen well HEDT intel does have solder but cost a "little" more for the direct counterpart.

technically 1700/1700X are mainstream 1800X is in between (afaik HEDT are Naples, edit: semi confirmed somewhere ... ) and they only require 1 chipset for it meaning you can go with the cheapest and upgrade later only the CPU (tho who buy a 1700 does not really need a 1800X since it's the same chip without XFR and a slightly lower clock )

i'd love to get a 379chf Intel CPU with soldering ... but the 7700K does not offer that.

and as i wrote previously ... technically if intel K CPU OC quite well ... i saw a 3.8ghz 1700 being in the same performances in gaming as a 5.0ghz 7700K (ok that's 16 thread versus 8 but they have the same price point.)

i'm of neither side, tho it's clear AMD did a good job nonetheless.

 

[newtekie1]

technically 1700/1700X are mainstream 1800X is in between

All the current Ryzen parts available are the high end parts. The Ryzen 5 and 3 chips are the mainstream, though I expect them to be soldered as well. Only AMD APUs seem to use TIM.

Yes, I would agree AMD did a good job. But I also know if they had done a better job(and actually managed to best Intel) they'd be charging $1,000+ for the 1800X.

 

[GreiverBlade]

All the current Ryzen parts available are the high end parts. The Ryzen 5 and 3 chips are the mainstream, though I expect them to be soldered as well. Only AMD APUs seem to use TIM.

Yes, I would agree AMD did a good job. But I also know if they had done a better job(and actually managed to best Intel) they'd be charging $1,000+ for the 1800X.

yes but the price is ranked in the mainstream counterpart from Intel and also the 1800X is priced like the lowest Intel HEDT part while having spec and performances close to the highest

7700K is mainstream so is the R7 1700 at the same price but the performances of the Ryzen chips are not mainstream for some task and that bare new and probably with a few youth bug/issues ...

to me by my book a R1 1700X/1800X going toe to toe with a 6900K on some task is a win win situation... and i doubt they would be charging 1000$+ if they bested it ... after all we talk about 1069chf CPU getting challenged by a 500-600chf CPU ...
if i had a CPU that perform close to one that is around 1000$ i would not ask for half the price

i will obviously keep my 6600K until these issues are sorted ... tho a R7 1700 is a way more desirable replacement than a 7700K and that even with the aforementioned issues.

 

[newtekie1]

yes but the price is ranked in the mainstream counterpart from Intel and also the 1800X is priced like the lowest Intel HEDT part while having spec and performances close to the highest

7700K is mainstream so is the R7 1700 at the same price but the performances of the Ryzen chips are not mainstream for some task and that bare new and probably with a few youth bug/issues ...

to me by my book a R1 1700X/1800X going toe to toe with a 6900K on some task is a win win situation... and i doubt they would be charging 1000$+ if they bested it ... after all we talk about 1069chf CPU getting challenged by a 500-600chf CPU ...
if i had a CPU that perform close to one that is around 1000$ i would not ask for half the price

i will obviously keep my 6600K until these issues are sorted ... tho a R7 1700 is a way more desirable replacement than a 7700K and that even with the aforementioned issues.

I'm not arguing any of that. The thing you have to remember is that AMD has to price them low. Even if they are good, and close enough to Intel, AMD had to price them low. AMD has to beat Intel in Price/Perforamance. To do that, they had to either beat them in performance and price them the same as Intel, or closely match them in performance and price them lower. Well, they didn't really beat Intel in performance, so their only option was to beat them on price. So saying "they are priced like Intel's mainstream, so they are mainstream" doesn't work. They are still the high end.

 

[silkstone]

It seems like a company actually listened to the complaints from the enthusiast community (albeit on a competitors product) and actually did something about it.

Bravo AMD.

 

[GreiverBlade]

So saying "they are priced like Intel's mainstream, so they are mainstream" doesn't work. They are still the high end.

yeah just how, 7700K buyer think they own a high end CPU (i am fine with my mid range ) high end for AMD will be non AM4 HEDT based on Naples, (tho it's only a rumor for now )

in intel categorization if it's not S2011-v3 it's not HEDT (high end desktop)
soooo AMD has a mainstream serie that perform like a HEDT... no issue calling them mainstream right?

on the price i don't intend to fight on that, still ... they are being competitive enough while pricing one of the 3 top dog, half the price of the CPU he challenge (with a relative ease) ... while they could have priced it between 60 and 75% of the price, well that's technically what they do with the 1700X and 1800X but these 2 feel redundant over the 1700 (XFR and slightly higher clock ... well it's worth a higher pricing, why not )



actually what's the issue if i call R7 series Mainstream?
mainstream does not refer to the performance but rather to the user group that can afford to buy those CPU, while i can't afford a 6900K i can afford a R7 1700, tho i have a 6600K and wanted to go 7700K later ... oh well ... i can afford a HEDT non mainstream CPU now ... thanks to your explanation (and thanks to AMD )

 

[DarkHill]

It seems like a company actually listened to the complaints from the enthusiast community (albeit on a competitors product) and actually did something about it.

Bravo AMD.

if they didnt solder, there seem to be evidence that the cpu would overheat - based on the temps at it is they NEEDED to user solder to even reach the (very) minor OC of the 1800x

On the other hand kabylake still reaches 4.8-5.1 depending on the lottery. Would it be nicer to reach this with 10-20 C lower? yes - but it still does it.

Intel uses solder on HEDT because its needed there and paste on mainstream becauses its not. Overclockers can void their warrenty, delid at get 100-200 MHz more at lower temps. But its just business strategy - plain and simple, you cant fault them for that (although im sure there are plenty of entitled people that will).

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

intel didn't soldered 7700k because of small die size, check this thread by der8auer

http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/

That has already been long debunked. Intel soldered smaller CPU dies in the past without issue (see every sandy bridge i3 for instance at 149mm2).

Ryzen is smaller then a sandy bridge quad core (195mm2 vs 216mm2) yet AMD had no issue soldering them. Intel simply cheaped out because they could.