Overwatch, Star Wars Battlefront II Loot Crates Under Gambling Scrutiny

[Vayra86]

I understand it since Free to play online games such as Project Torque/Heatonline, Crossfire, Combat Arms appeared online back in 2008/2009 with micro transactions...

I fell victim to quite a few F2P and Pay to Win titles myself (such as Allods: Online) - willingly, and I had fun while doing it. Now that I think back and objectively look at those systems though, it is so glaringly obvious that the reason I had fun entirely wasn't the actual gameplay. It had nothing remarkable, all of it was stuff I did a dozen times before. Why was it fun? You could legally cheat your way to the top.

 

[the54thvoid]

If you purchase a loot crate because EA sell it as a way to improve your chances in game, then you could argue, a loot box with little game benefit might spur some to purchase another loot box. If you purchase an item without knowing it's exact contents, it is technically a lottery, not so much gambling as a skill based outcome. If the loot crates are more akin to a lottery (a lucky dip) then it is worse than gambling.

EA could fix this by simply saying you can buy Loot Crate A which has item A, B & C. Specify the contents to remove uncertainty of outcome.

 

[eidairaman1]

I fell victim to quite a few F2P and Pay to Win titles myself (such as Allods: Online) - willingly, and I had fun while doing it. Now that I think back and objectively look at those systems though, it is so glaringly obvious that the reason I had fun entirely wasn't the actual gameplay. It had nothing remarkable, all of it was stuff I did a dozen times before. Why was it fun? You could legally cheat your way to the top.

Yeah whats even worse is when game devs cease to exist and all servers go offline, Project torque I put time in and then it went from being able to be tuned for handling to arcade controls...

 

[Vayra86]

The contents of the Lootboxes in Overwatch are pure cosmetics as well... so why does it have to be investigated?

A Lootbox is a Lootbox... don't make exceptions then and investigate all games with Lootboxes.

So that is what they do But investigation doesn't mean guilt.

Come to think of it - I actually also bought 20 loot boxes for Overwatch at some point a few months ago. Just because I could, there was no rationale behind it, didn't even need or want any specific thing they give.

Shit.

I only advocate an intervention btw because gamers are too stupid (not nice... I'll say impulse driven) or too young to fix it themselves. I also hate condescending words like "sheep", but that's like exactly what many are being. They're better than this, but don't know it.

I think this specific case, other than the impulse buying of pre-orders and DLCs or normal 'store content' in games, is not one of gamers being stupid. Its just a clever system that takes advantage of people, and most of us are vulnerable.

 

[eidairaman1]

So that is what they do But investigation doesn't mean guilt.

Come to think of it - I actually also bought 20 loot boxes for Overwatch at some point a few months ago. Just because I could, there was no rationale behind it, didn't even need or want any specific thing they give.

Shit.



I think this specific case, other than the impulse buying of pre-orders and DLCs or normal 'store content' in games, is not one of gamers being stupid. Its just a clever system that takes advantage of people, and most of us are vulnerable.

I guess I quit with the buying of stuff in game because in the end it was worthless.

 

[dj-electric]

Excuse me but... where the hell is the CS:GO stuff?!

This has been a running casino for years now! with out-of-game gamble sites! hello?!?!

 

[Eric3988]

Keep the government out of this crap. Loot boxes are terrible game design, but not gambling in the sense that there is money to be won. Consumers should be the one to make the choice if they want to support games that feature loot boxes. If enough consumers opt not to, then developers will be forced to move away from them.

 

[toilet pepper]

The problem with these so-called "micro-transaction" is they are not regulated like normal goods. These companies can price them astronomically high just because they can. I know there's R&D put into making these transactions but it will not justify the price they are asking for it.

These "micro-transactions" are not bounded by simple Economics like other products where companies price their products because there is limited supply to make them. To make it simple, micro-transaction for these companies are like "money-bearing trees" where they can make money out of nothing once R&D had been paid for. This should really be regulated.

 

[Vayra86]

The problem with these so-called "micro-transaction" is they are not regulated like normal goods. These companies can price them astronomically high just because they can. I know there's R&D put into making these transactions but it will not justify the price they are asking for it.

These "micro-transactions" are not bounded by simple Economics like other products where companies price their products because there is limited supply to make them. To make it simple, micro-transaction for these companies are like "money-bearing trees" where they can make money out of nothing once R&D had been paid for. This should really be regulated.

Haha! R&D. Psychology and some simple math is all it takes to 'craft' such a system. It really isn't hard and has been done countless times before. EA didn't R&D anything, they just picked something and only had one goal: maximizing profit, any creative direction be damned. They for sure didn't R&D the public backlash.

 

[Atnevon]

I don't support the loot crates at all, but, the biggest difference between Overwatch and Battlefield II is that in Overwatch you can argue do not change the mechanics of the core game at all. D.Va with BeeVa skin and special emote do not change how she plays at all; its cosmetic and extra.

Battlefield however has mechanic altering cards and items tied to those Boxes. BIG differences. Its no longer pay-to-win but now watered down to such a point where its pay-to-have-a-better-chance-of-getting-ahead.

 

[erocker]

Lol, you definitely don't get crates that good in the retail version!

 

[Beastie]

Keep the government out of this crap. Loot boxes are terrible game design, but not gambling in the sense that there is money to be won. Consumers should be the one to make the choice if they want to support games that feature loot boxes. If enough consumers opt not to, then developers will be forced to move away from them.

Money is not the only thing that can be used to entice a sucker. EA are certainly making money, they are just not offering any at all in return. I fail to see how this makes the situation any better.

This is worse than Vegas.

If responsible adults choose to opt in, fine. But a Star Wars franchised game is by definition largely marketed at children.

 

[SaltyFish]

If responsible adults choose to opt in, fine. But a Star Wars franchised game is by definition largely marketed at children.

Are children really the main market for Star Wars? Like that recent Star Wars Titan XP? When I think "target audience of Star Wars", I don't think of children but rather of socially-stunted middle-aged men (like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons) I'm aware that there's been a broadening of the geek demographic but said man-children probably remain a rather significant portion of it. Though I guess a case can be made that such people are neither adults nor responsible when it comes to many things.

 

[rtwjunkie]

EA has been doing the loot crate thing for awhile. I remember they did it on the Co-Op of ME3. At the conclusion of of a map, the team would get random rewards for everybody, and points. The rewards were not very good. IIRC the award boxes were bronze, silver Gold, Platinum.

the chance (and it was a small one) of getting good equipment went up much higher with each level box. The levels each required an astronomical level of equipment to get enough ammo and weapon upgrades ro keep playing the muktiplayer. If you were lucky enough to mostly pair up with the same team like I did, you could score enough points to guarrantee at least a silver box.

The problem was, these boxes could also be bought, allowing a vastly increased level of success for someone who showed up to play the multiplayer with fully upgraded powers or weapons, tons of special ammo, etc. They paid to win, and because the odds of getting good ewuipment were so small, they were enticed into spending ALOT of money, especially IIRC, the prices ranged from 3.99 to 6.99.

So there ya have a good example of how this shit works.

 

[Xzibit]

Spoke to a Overwatch Rep and he had this to say.

I'll just add to this instead of posting again:
Well in case it wasn't obvious. It was in fun. One needs to play Overwatch and hear or unlock that Torb voice line through a loot box to even get it.

 

[StrayKAT]

Spoke to a Overwatch Rep and he had this to say.

What kind of "rep" was he, exactly?

I would only listen to a developer or some creative part of the team. The rest of the gaming industry seems to be just marketing grads, who find ways to turn our entertainment into their personal ATM machines (I'm not harping merely about money here.. Success is good obviously).

 

[StrayKAT]

EA has been doing the loot crate thing for awhile. I remember they did it on the Co-Op of ME3. At the conclusion of of a map, the team would get random rewards for everybody, and points. The rewards were not very good. IIRC the award boxes were bronze, silver Gold, Platinum.

They had the same randomized MT in that game too.

Only there was little reason to make use of it. It was fun enough, but it was a blip on the map of multiplayer games.. and PVE anyways. edit: Sorry about the double posts. I'll try not to do it again.

 

[LordSabathan]

And what about NFS Payback..its absolute the same sh1t..just they switch lootboxes with cards..

 

[deu]

The contents of the Lootboxes in Overwatch are pure cosmetics as well... so why does it have to be investigated?

A Lootbox is a Lootbox... don't make exceptions then and investigate all games with Lootboxes.

So there is two things in this:

1. lootboxes (whatever they put in them.)
2. Building a game where progression is based on the content of said lootbox.

My opion is:

'1' can and SHOULD exist but should be regulated so accordingly. I work at a bank (technical support), and the amount of kids able not control this is supprising. Basically these games are stresstesting ALL kids playing them to see whether or not they have a problem with gambling; if they have, you can bet your a** that it will become apparent! So the question is; should we try and help these kids from not ending up a ludomania?

'2' is another story (eventhough it has all parts of 1 included.) The problem I see is that the MAIN goal of SWBF2 is to win, and to win is to... progress and to progress is to pay (at least more than it is to play) Other games have this element, but they are; free to play games. When you release Starwars AAA game to consoles under the biggest engine franchies (BF spin-off). You are making a game that every kid in the world would wanna own! Alot of these kids does not have unregulated time to game (maybe they can game 2 hour a day if lucky) you can start to calculate how unrealistic the playtime for say the heros are. These kids are tempted to spend their hard earned money or their parents money on; progression in a game. THAT is wrong! And that should NEVER be allow or accepted in gaming. The problem is that EA KNOW that people will by this game; it is not like a random free to play indiegame with a playerbase of 50.000 players; this is the "christmas game" the "i NEED THIS GAME" to kids.

In other words; they are looking into all gambling related games (as they have gambling elements), but SWBF2 is the game that have taken this to the consolegaming (a demography that vastly consist of kids.) )

 

[laszlo]

so this "loot crates" can empty wallets

what i see bad is that you have to pay with real money instead of receiving it for free (when reaching a level) or using achievements points f.ex.

 

[StrayKAT]

So there is two things in this:

1. lootboxes (whatever they put in them.)
2. Building a game where progression is based on the content of said lootbox.

My opion is:

'1' can and SHOULD exist but should be regulated so accordingly. I work at a bank (technical support), and the amount of kids able not control this is supprising. Basically these games are stresstesting ALL kids playing them to see whether or not they have a problem with gambling; if they have, you can bet your a** that it will become apparent! So the question is; should we try and help these kids from not ending up a ludomania?

'2' is another story (eventhough it has all parts of 1 included.) The problem I see is that the MAIN goal of SWBF2 is to win, and to win is to... progress and to progress is to pay (at least more than it is to play) Other games have this element, but they are; free to play games. When you release Starwars AAA game to consoles under the biggest engine franchies (BF spin-off). You are making a game that every kid in the world would wanna own! Alot of these kids does not have unregulated time to game (maybe they can game 2 hour a day if lucky) you can start to calculate how unrealistic the playtime for say the heros are. These kids are tempted to spend their hard earned money or their parents money on; progression in a game. THAT is wrong! And that should NEVER be allow or accepted in gaming. The problem is that EA KNOW that people will by this game; it is not like a random free to play indiegame with a playerbase of 50.000 players; this is the "christmas game" the "i NEED THIS GAME" to kids.

In other words; they are looking into all gambling related games (as they have gambling elements), but SWBF2 is the game that have taken this to the consolegaming (a demography that vastly consist of kids.) )

I'm curious how many calls you get of parents begging to cancel and/or wondering what are all of the mystery gaming charges on their bills?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Excuse me but... where the hell is the CS:GO stuff?!

This has been a running casino for years now! with out-of-game gamble sites! hello?!?!

Indeed. Governments around the world have not only been slow to react to gambling in games but completely failing to regulate things like the Steam Market where Valve can basically print money.

 

[deu]

I'm curious how many calls you get of parents begging to cancel and/or wondering what are all of the mystery gaming charges on their bills?

Im in the technical department where I dont actually deal with cases like that but eventhough i've had 4+ patents trough the last two years (them dialing wrong in our system.) To that can be added the people who call in and say that they wait x blocked because they know they have a problem. I can only assume that this is the top of the iceberg. :0