AMD Unlikely to Fix DX9 Games Bugged by Adrenalin Driver

[Paganstomp]

The company's full statement reads "This title is from 2007, so we are unlikely to devote any valuable engineering resources to this issue, which is most likely caused by outdated API modules."

So now it goes down the line to the developers to make new code for their old game. An example is Blizzard has a boat load of money and have been fixing their old games to run on newer hardware and drivers. Others just don't have those type of resources or gone out of business. Sucks doesn't it. But that's the way it is. It takes $$$!! Unless you like working for free...

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

The company's full statement reads "This title is from 2007, so we are unlikely to devote any valuable engineering resources to this issue, which is most likely caused by outdated API modules."

So now it goes down the line to the developers to make new code for thier old game. An example is Blizzard has a boat load of money and have been fixing thier old games to run on newer hardware and drivers. Others just don't have those type resources or gone out of business. Sucks dosen't it. But that's the way it is. It takes $$$!! Unless you like working for free...

How much you want to a bet a pirated version running on Linux via Wine would work just fine?

 

[ManofGod]

Microsoft's archaic and monolithic approach to graphics APIs over the decades has contributed to this problem. OpenGL has grown far more gracefully than DX has because DX doesn't grow, DX gets replaced. It's hard to manage change, which is why strictly adding features and not changing them yields stability and scalability. Rewriting APIs takes a ton of time for everyone involved and it's a terrible way to develop software.

You can thank Microsoft for that nightmare, not the driver dev shops that have to implement them.

Looks to me like Microsoft's way of doing it is working much better than OpenGL. The Direct X performance is typically better than OpenGL and more robust to boot.

Or simply buy an nvidia card that not only performs better, but still supports the games.

Until it doesn't or you have to install a different driver just to get one game to work.

 

[Paganstomp]

How much you want to a bet a pirated version running on Linux via Wine would work just fine?

Linux has issues of its own in getting games to run. Been major improvements, but still has a ways to go. { I buy my games GoG / Steam / CD-DVD or Floppy. Sometimes on cassette tape. }

 

[ManofGod]

LOL the miles AMD fanatics go through to justify this dick move is simply mind blowing! Really if AMD went tomorrow or next year or whatever and announced they are dropping DX10 and DX11 games as well they wouldn't even flinch.

5 games is not the end of DX9 support, as much as it is spun that way. Also, I would love to see an NVidia 1080 Ti support all games 100% without issue on the latest version of Windows 10 with only the latest drivers, which as all is truly and fully aware, is not possible.

 

[lexluthermiester]

The Witcher will likely be fixed by CD Projeckt due to their GoG platform etc. The other games tho are unlikely to see a Developer fix cause well its EA lol. Generally speaking this is expected but still disheartening.

For all of EA's faults, they are actually pretty good at patching their old game titles. Still, this fix is very likely going to reside with AMD.

 

[oxidized]

I have the feeling soon AMD will stop having a GPU department, i mean they've been giving 0 fuc*s for how long now? I honestly don't think they still hope to fool somebody else, sounds like they're preparing to get rid of the RTG, and maybe create something else in the future (when they'll actually have enough money to afford a proper Graphics team and not starve it) otherwise they're just digging their own grave, i don't know, i can't think of anything else.

 

[Vya Domus]

What a shitshow. Good job everyone.

Good thing the forum updated recently , otherwise I could have sworn I am on wccftech.

 

[oxidized]

What a shitshow. Good job everyone.

Good thing the forum updated recently , otherwise I could have sworn I am on wccftech.

Hey! At least you're not on OCN lmao.

 

[OneMoar]

btw the DLLS are here and yo

Dx9 is far from dead, Take a look at Steam game library of indie games added over last year. You will find a ton that STILL made using DX9. Even one the most popular games right now League of Legends is a DX9 game. Just cause you think its dead and gone is far from the fact ton's of people use it cause its easy to use and tons of documentation for it makes it easy for them to code games for. Lets not also forget games like DOTA and CS:GO that still use it.

and they are doing it wrong

 

[rtwjunkie]

Hence why an entire code base needs to be maintained. A testament to bad decisions made upon bad decisions. This is the kind of bed you have sleep in when you by a mattress from Microsoft.

I'm not sure where you fall on this, since I've seen you respond seeming for both sides. And I will be honest, you are talking riddles with this response and have me confused.

I will say there has never been a reason why Direct X versions were tied to OS, other than a carrot used by MS to get us to buy the new operating systems.

There is really nothing wrong with Direct X. It runs fine in W10, and is not a security hole, otherwise it would have been blocked just like disc based games were. It strikes me funny that OneMoar keeps acting like he is the worlds most knowing person and calls it a cancer that must be ripped out. At least your posts contribute, even while confusing me sometimes.

 

[Vya Domus]

There is really nothing wrong with Direct X. It runs fine in W10, and is not a security hole, otherwise it would have been blocked just like disc based games were.

There is nothing wrong with it other than the fact that it relies on an antiquated code base and concepts from a time when GPUs didn't even have unified shaders. And not just that , DX and OpenGL up until recently have been fully reliant on drivers for performance and compatibility. I wouldn't go as far as to call it a cancer but MS shouldn't have let it become so widespread after so much time.

 

[xkm1948]

Just tested Max Payne 2. Broken as well. You can add just to the list. Now who knows what else is broken.

Does not want to roll back to 17.11.4 though. Last time I played this was on the first Relive driver release. It played just fine last time.

 

[Aquinus]

I'm not sure where you fall on this, since I've seen you respond seeming for both sides.

I think that DirectX is garbage and hard for driver devs to maintain however, I do think AMD needs to get their act together and fix it. This was simply sloppy QA but, this shouldn't be a surprise with something as monolithic as DirectX when people want driver bug turnarounds to be quick. You don't see this kind of crap typically happening with OpenGL implementations, even with bleeding edge code.

 

[evernessince]

The HD 7000 series and the R 200/300 series of cards did see a lot of improvement in performance as the drivers for them matured, allowing them to outperform their original nvidia counterparts substantially in some of the more recent games, till Polaris and VEGA cards became a priority.

You will not see reviewers benching cards like the GTX 770, GTX 780 or the GTX 780 Ti in their benchmark suite, but you'll see a couple of R9 200 cards. The AMD cards from the HD 7000/R 200/R 300 did age better. But the same can't be said for the Fury lineup. So I wouldn't pass off FineWine as simply a myth. I myself had a GTX 770 and a HD 7950 side by side and I saw how things unfolded.

If TechPowerUp wants another scoop, I can give them one right now. Some keen soul tried asking AMD to add HBCC support for the Fury/Fury X cards. Here's how they responded:

View attachment 95411
Source: Here
​

And ever since the RX 400 series of cards launched, older cards have seen a drastic loss in performance in newer titles. You can say all you want about the newer architecture being more efficient in tasks like Tessellation and all, the performance figures in some of the more recent titles just don't add up. Planned obsolescence is something both nvidia and AMD are guilty of, it's just that how and when it happens is relative to how the ball is rolling.



Yeah, AMD doesn't want to fix what developers screwed up more than a decade ago.. only that if you uninstall AMD's Latest Adrenalin drivers, and install an older driver, it un-screws whatever the developers managed to screw up a decade ago. Isn't that odd?

The Fury X wasn't planned obsolescence, it was just a turd of a card just the same as Vega is.

 

[lexluthermiester]

and they are doing it wrong

That's your opinion, not shared by everyone, including devs still making damn good games.

The Fury X wasn't planned obsolescence, it was just a turd of a card just the same as Vega is.

Also an opinion not shared by everyone.

I'm sensing a trend here..

 

[Jism]

I have the feeling soon AMD will stop having a GPU department, i mean they've been giving 0 fuc*s for how long now? I honestly don't think they still hope to fool somebody else, sounds like they're preparing to get rid of the RTG, and maybe create something else in the future (when they'll actually have enough money to afford a proper Graphics team and not starve it) otherwise they're just digging their own grave, i don't know, i can't think of anything else.

Bullshit.

AMD is not forced to update their latest *new* drivers for games dating back from 2007 or even older. I mean, you could still install a previous driver and hapilly play the game. The adrenaline update is for latest games, cards and all. AMD is right. Why 'waste' valuable engineering resources into drivers for older games? It's just 5.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

That's your opinion, not shared by everyone, including devs still making damn good games.

But AMD aren't doing it right either. AMD could use all the good PR they can get, and this throws up an obstacle that could be a potential deal killer for someone looking to buy a graphics card that also plays old/older games. This will push some people towards Nvidia rather then stick with AMD.

They are alienating themselves from the part of the community that does play these games.

 

[Aquinus]

This will push some people towards Nvidia rather then stick with AMD.

I like the driver model in Linux which is a big plus for me but, really having no good upgrade path while sticking with AMD is what's bothering me. A 580 is a side-grade or a very minor upgrade at best from the 390 and Vega cards are nowhere to be found. If AMD wants me to buy another card, they need to make a Vega 56 using regular VRAM. HBM isn't worth all of these shenanigans.

As for the drivers (maintained by AMD,) I don't expect it to get any better. It hasn't for a long time.

 

[R-T-B]

That's your opinion, not shared by everyone, including devs still making damn good games.

Also an opinion not shared by everyone.

I'm sensing a trend here..

This.

Others can say how invalid opinions are all they want, and how this is a storm in a teacup and all, but people have a right to be mad about what they want to be mad about. Simple as that.

I'm mad because my old games don't work, and that eliminates AMD as a purchasing choice for me. I'm afraid it really is that simple.

Drivers are always going to broken somewhere on both sides. What I don't understand is why AMD felt like announcing that they're going to continue doing what they and Nvidia already do.

NVIDIAs drivers tend to be broken more in modern titles... lol

 

[Th3pwn3r]

Bullshit.

AMD is not forced to update their latest *new* drivers for games dating back from 2007 or even older. I mean, you could still install a previous driver and hapilly play the game. The adrenaline update is for latest games, cards and all. AMD is right. Why 'waste' valuable engineering resources into drivers for older games? It's just 5.

There was nothing bullshit about his post. And sure, they're not forced to update anything, it's always a good thing to do. When you buy a product you expect it to work right and get some support, at least in our world of hardware. In my opinion it doesn't matter how many games are bugged and no longer work. If it once worked with old drivers it should work with new drivers.

This.

Others can say how invalid opinions are all they want, and how this is a storm in a teacup and all, but people have a right to be mad about what they want to be mad about. Simple as that.

I'm mad because my old games don't work, and that eliminates AMD as a purchasing choice for me. I'm afraid it really is that simple.



NVIDIAs drivers tend to be broken more in modern titles... lol

Yep, everything really should work and for anyone be it Nvidia or AMD to say something as stupid as the AMD rep did...that's just someone who shouldn't have their job.

 

[Prince Valiant]

Perhaps TPU could (should?) reach out to AMD for more information? All I see in the original thread is a single support team member making a generic blanket statement.

 

[lexluthermiester]

But AMD aren't doing it right either. AMD could use all the good PR they can get, and this throws up an obstacle that could be a potential deal killer for someone looking to buy a graphics card that also plays old/older games. This will push some people towards Nvidia rather then stick with AMD.

But you could say the same with some of NVidia choices. The choice to ditch 32bit OS support and the attempt at limiting Datacenter usage are the most recent. Those will have a similar effect, though to different market segments. And this little problem is going to push people to Geforce?

They are alienating themselves from the part of the community that does play these games.

And this is a similar problem that the very same community has had to deal with in the past. It's not new problem. It happens, time marches on and technology with it. AMD is not heartless and likely will figure it out and correct it. Just not a priority for them, and it shouldn't be.

I'm mad because my old games don't work, and that eliminates AMD as a purchasing choice for me. I'm afraid it really is that simple.

Simple though it may be, don't you think that is an over reaction? Do you think it worth AMD's time, or NVidia's for that matter, to tackle what amounts to a minor problem for a seriously minor audience? It's not like the games won't run(from what I've read), they just glitch up with certain "features" enabled. Turn them off and the problem goes away.

It seems the term " Mountains out of mole-hills" would apply very aptly here..

By way of qualification I own, and enjoy, most of those games affected. However, I would not whine and moan about it too much. Instead, I would and have had to find a way to fix it myself. Interestingly enough, a similar problem happened with C&C-TiberianSun with the FireStorm expansion pack and a set of Geforce drivers back in the day. NVidia fixed it a few months later but by then a work-around had been discovered(rolling back to a previous driver).

 

[R-T-B]

Do you think it worth AMD's time, or NVidia's for that matter, to tackle what amounts to a minor problem for a seriously minor audience?

I don't consider playing old games a minor audience, really. There may be less cashflow though.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I think this is an unintended consequence of adding overlay support to Radeon Settings.