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The State of Cryptocurrency

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lending your money (savings) to a bank to speculate with is also a fools game..

and thinking your money is safe in a bank is a bigger fools game.. he he

trog

LOL.... really? The past 30 years my bank hasn't really let me down to be fair and if a bank falls over, I can get up to 100.000 EUR back on the basis of a simple form to our national bank. In other news, the entire real estate market is carried by the banking system. If it wasn't for banks, we'd all be renting houses ie tossing money into a bottomless pit for just a roof over your head that you will never own.

Note: I've already experienced this when DSB (a Dutch bank) collapsed - the entirety of my savings account there was returned to me within 6 weeks. The system we have in place really is pretty solid and chock full of checks and balances. That doesn't mean it can't or should not improve, but I am confident that it will. Too much depends on it - remember the expression 'too big to fail'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSB_Bank
 
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Your money isn't safe anywhere but even less so when it comes down to crypto.
 
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All safety is relative, anyone interested in computer technology knows this.
 
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I really find it fascinating how can one bear more trust in this made up virtual cash than into a well established insured banking system.
 
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lending your money (savings) to a bank to speculate with is also a fools game..

and thinking your money is safe in a bank is a bigger fools game.. he he

trog

eh? my banks are safe enough for me (USA here). only way to lose it is to have the government or irs or something confiscate it for whatever reason. and i am not worried about that.

its just a place to park it till i find something to do with it anyway.
 
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Your money isn't safe anywhere but even less so when it comes down to crypto.

Well, crypto can be made safe as money in a mattress... but what it's going to end up worth in fiat is anyones guess.

There's the rub.
 

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thinking your money is safe in a bank is a bigger fools game

We got some money stolen form our house.

They cant steal it from our bank.
 
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the bank can steal it.. the term is bail in as opposed to bail out.. with one the tax payer puts right the failing bank.. with the other the bank helps itself to the depositors dosh.. banks must not be allowed to fail for fear of the contagion spreading and bringing the lot down.. in truth they are all broke.. he he

but with soon to come negative interest rates you will actually paying the bank to gamble with your money.. and if they lose it you wont get it back.. what did i say about a fools game..:)

trog
 

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I've never had an issue with my bank either... but I'm not looking to replace USD with crypto. Back in June/July last year I got into the game hoping to make some extra money with this, and I've been doing just that. I'd love to hold onto some BTC and let my stash grow, but alas... life is not that easy.
 

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lending your money (savings) to a bank to speculate with is also a fools game..

and thinking your money is safe in a bank is a bigger fools game.. he he

trog
Checking and savings accounts are insured by FDIC or NUCA in the USA up to a balance of $250,000. They overleverage themselves and collapse, the fed seizes the facility on Saturday evening. As long as you don't exceed that amount, the money is safe. This was created to prevent runs on banks dating back to the Great Depression.

Well, crypto can be made safe as money in a mattress... but what it's going to end up worth in fiat is anyones guess.

There's the rub.
Except that fiat isn't moving to crypto. Crypto is not a safe haven.
 

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the bank can steal it.

Hasn't happened in my 37 years while I've been living on this planet. In fact, they give us interest on our saving account.

I trust my bank more than leaving cash around the house.
 
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Except that fiat isn't moving to crypto. Crypto is not a safe haven.

I specifically said your crypto is safe NOT your fiat and you still somehow manage to go on about fiat?

You confuse me, ford...

And money moves in and out of crypto from fiat everyday, at any rate.
 

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Its not just British Banks now some US banks have also joined in

US banks are queueing up to stop customers from buying bitcoin using credit cards, as wild price swings continue on the biggest cryptocurrency.

JP Morgan Chase and Bank of America both last night said they will ban the practice, according to , which could leave customers chasing the big price rises which bitcoin has seen over the past year with big losses. Citigroup also joined in the ban, according to Bloomberg.

Credit card providers which allow transactions with cryptocurrency exchanges could be left exposed to higher risk than usual because of the massive volatility of the assets.

Their customer base will take a hit too
 

ppn

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And money moves in and out of crypto from fiat everyday, at any rate.

Any rate, more like a small fraction. Once fiat is exchanged to crypt o, one is never getting it back, try a million $. At least not all people can get all their fiat back. Same thing with banks. people in Greece got to experience that bail-in.
 
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Once fiat is exchanged to crypt o, one is never getting it back

I must be doing it wrong on a daily basis...
 
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Smart people don't gamble with money they don't have or can't miss. Only the desperate do this, and they hardly fix anything by doing it. Its the worst way to manage your finances.
Some people have spare cash around so they get into crypto
 
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I specifically said your crypto is safe NOT your fiat and you still somehow manage to go on about fiat?

...

And money moves in and out of crypto from fiat everyday, at any rate.
Crypto is not safe at all. When the stock market took a dive over the last week, that money didn't go to crypto. I'm not entirely sure where it went, actually. Bonds, maybe?


You were talking about mattresses which were safe havens for cash following the Great Depression. Post Great Depression, banks and credit unions are the best place to hoard cash so long as you don't exceed the insured limit.

Crypto is like a mattress made of hydrogen. It will spontaneously combust, it's just a matter of "when." If you want to shelter your net worth from an economic storm, crypto is about the worst place you could put it.
 
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Crypto is not safe at all. When the stock market took a dive over the last week, that money didn't go to crypto. I'm not entirely sure where it went, actually. Bonds, maybe?


You were talking about mattresses which were safe havens for cash following the Great Depression. Post Great Depression, banks and credit unions are the best place to hoard cash so long as you don't exceed the insured limit.

Crypto is like a mattress made of hydrogen. It will spontaneously combust, it's just a matter of "when." If you want to shelter your net worth from an economic storm, crypto is about the worst place you could put it.

i dont think the stock market has finished its diving activities just yet.. :)

some say if you dont hold it you dont own it.. maybe some cash under the mattress aint such bad idea..

trog
 
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Crypto is like a mattress made of hydrogen. It will spontaneously combust, it's just a matter of "when." If you want to shelter your net worth from an economic storm, crypto is about the worst place you could put it.

Ford, you missed his point. His point was that the security of the TECHNOLOGY would be safe and secure NOT the VALUE.
 
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Crypto is not safe at all.

You seem to be having a hard time comprehending I am only saying your crypto balance can be secured, as in your 1 whatever coin will remain one whatever coin. I am specifically not commenting on the exchange problem.
 
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One question that I admittedly have done very little research on but plan to shortly, and may be suited for its own thread, is poisoning the blockchain. Similar to ARP protocol, is it possible to poison blockchain? I suspecting the answer is yes but in practical terms, no because of key signing.

* Edited some typos
 
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I really find it fascinating how can one bear more trust in this made up virtual cash than into a well established insured banking system.

Funny thing is, you are only considering banks in Europe/US. Not all banks around the world are the same. I have had money stolen from me in banks multiple times. Not though fees or interest, but literally stolen by the people working at banks. This has also happened to many people I know by employees using various methods.

There are stories in the news quite often of people at the highest level in banks stealing money. Fortunately they usually get executed, but I am sure there are many more that are not caught.

I have no doubt that for many of the banks, if they collapsed, I would receive no money back. I am, luckily, in a position where I can have bank accounts in different countries and so keep any major funds in a place with better regulatory protections. Not everyone can.

Crypto is a global currency. Most people are thinking about it with a very local mindset.

[Edit] There is also the matter of cross border transfers. If I want to send money overseas, I can send it to a family member, if I register their documentation and I can send it to my own account overseas (at considerable expense). If I were a local, however, It would be impossible to send money out. Hell, even incoming transfers to my accounts from inside the country are not allowed unless I provide proof of where the funds are from and tax receipts. I've actually had my salary payments held by the bank for weeks, because the amount included a bonus that was not part of my regular salary. I cannot even go to the bank with cash and deposit it, unless I provide documentation with rubber stamps.

Countries like India and China are likely even worse than this! Even in Korea, it is difficult to send money out, hence all the news regarding government regulation. If you look at the countries where crypto usage is booming, they are usually the countries with shitty banking and lots of restrictions. Asia, Russia and Eastern Europe.

The US and Europe are pretty good. To combat money laundering, you have government agencies that investigate things whilst keeping the banking regulations open. Other countries go the opposite way and have very stringent banking regulations, but no agencies. This doesn't stop the real criminals and just makes it a pain in the ass for everyone else.
[/Edit]

[Edit 2]]
Crypto is not safe at all. When the stock market took a dive over the last week, that money didn't go to crypto. I'm not entirely sure where it went, actually. Bonds, maybe?

I think that the money goes elsewhere long before the crash. It's the people who sell in the weeks leading up to the crash that make the real money. Some will hold the fiat for a while, waiting for the dip to buy back, others might put it into foreign currencies, whilst some will invest in more international stocks and bonds. Anything with a high liquidity that will allow them to buy back into their next potential investment. Funny thing is, people often talk about money being wiped off of stock markets, like it has disappeared. It's not, it just left the market into something else well before the crash. As an example, with the housing crash, all that money went to developers and agents months/years before it all collapsed. You have 1 side taking money out, whilst others keep pumping money in. When the balance is tipped to too far to those taking it out, that's when it crashes. Leading up to the crypto crash, I sold a few of my coins to recoup my investment. That money that was 'wiped off' the crypto markets, went to the people that sold leading up to the highs. People will keep buying crypto as they believe it is an emerging market and as it gets more exposure, more people will buy into it as there is a lot of room for expansion. The one certainty in both stocks and cryptos is that it will crash and it will peak. There will be bubbles and collapses. What really makes crypto different, is that it is such a small market, in comparison to traditional investments, that all of this is exaggerated both in terms of time and % change. 'If' the crypto market grows, it will experience slower and less pronounced swings, like the stock market. It is already showing signs of this. I remember back in 2008-2009 when the price of BTC went from $25 to $2 pretty much overnight. That was a 12.5x change. The last rise from $1000 to $20 000, took much much longer and it's been similar for some of the alts like ETH.

The whole system is closer to gambling than anything. Not just the crypto markets, but stocks as well. People don't usually buy stocks because they believe in a company, they buy them because they think the stock will rise. Historically/on average, if you do try to buy into companies that you believe in, you'll do worse than the index. There aren't many fund managers that do better than the index, and those that do are generally just lucky. It doesn't matter to them anyway, as they get their % cut regardless. If you ever buy into stocks using a mutual fund or agent of any kind, the first question you ask is how their portfolio has performed in comparison to the index (after their fees). Only a small percentage of these will ever do better.
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I think this was mentioned before, but the governments of the world need to begin regulating cryptocurrencies. Doing so will give them a level of legitimacy and stability that they need. Of course this could open up a whole can of worms, but anything is better than the way it is now.
 
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I think this was mentioned before, but the governments of the world need to begin regulating cryptocurrencies. Doing so will give them a level of legitimacy and stability that they need. Of course this could open up a whole can of worms, but anything is better than the way it is now.
Dont worry about regulating , crypto is not going to amount to anything. The tech of crypto, blockchain, might evolve into something but overall, crypto will not.
 
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Funny thing is, you are only considering banks in Europe/US. Not all banks around the world are the same. I have had money stolen from me in banks multiple times. Not though fees or interest, but literally stolen by the people working at banks. This has also happened to many people I know by employees using various methods.

There are stories in the news quite often of people at the highest level in banks stealing money. Fortunately they usually get executed, but I am sure there are many more that are not caught.

I have no doubt that for many of the banks, if they collapsed, I would receive no money back. I am, luckily, in a position where I can have bank accounts in different countries and so keep any major funds in a place with better regulatory protections. Not everyone can.

Crypto is a global currency. Most people are thinking about it with a very local mindset.

[Edit] There is also the matter of cross border transfers. If I want to send money overseas, I can send it to a family member, if I register their documentation and I can send it to my own account overseas (at considerable expense). If I were a local, however, It would be impossible to send money out. Hell, even incoming transfers to my accounts from inside the country are not allowed unless I provide proof of where the funds are from and tax receipts. I've actually had my salary payments held by the bank for weeks, because the amount included a bonus that was not part of my regular salary. I cannot even go to the bank with cash and deposit it, unless I provide documentation with rubber stamps.

Countries like India and China are likely even worse than this! Even in Korea, it is difficult to send money out, hence all the news regarding government regulation. If you look at the countries where crypto usage is booming, they are usually the countries with shitty banking and lots of restrictions. Asia, Russia and Eastern Europe.

The US and Europe are pretty good. To combat money laundering, you have government agencies that investigate things whilst keeping the banking regulations open. Other countries go the opposite way and have very stringent banking regulations, but no agencies. This doesn't stop the real criminals and just makes it a pain in the ass for everyone else.
[/Edit]

[Edit 2]]


I think that the money goes elsewhere long before the crash. It's the people who sell in the weeks leading up to the crash that make the real money. Some will hold the fiat for a while, waiting for the dip to buy back, others might put it into foreign currencies, whilst some will invest in more international stocks and bonds. Anything with a high liquidity that will allow them to buy back into their next potential investment. Funny thing is, people often talk about money being wiped off of stock markets, like it has disappeared. It's not, it just left the market into something else well before the crash. As an example, with the housing crash, all that money went to developers and agents months/years before it all collapsed. You have 1 side taking money out, whilst others keep pumping money in. When the balance is tipped to too far to those taking it out, that's when it crashes. Leading up to the crypto crash, I sold a few of my coins to recoup my investment. That money that was 'wiped off' the crypto markets, went to the people that sold leading up to the highs. People will keep buying crypto as they believe it is an emerging market and as it gets more exposure, more people will buy into it as there is a lot of room for expansion. The one certainty in both stocks and cryptos is that it will crash and it will peak. There will be bubbles and collapses. What really makes crypto different, is that it is such a small market, in comparison to traditional investments, that all of this is exaggerated both in terms of time and % change. 'If' the crypto market grows, it will experience slower and less pronounced swings, like the stock market. It is already showing signs of this. I remember back in 2008-2009 when the price of BTC went from $25 to $2 pretty much overnight. That was a 12.5x change. The last rise from $1000 to $20 000, took much much longer and it's been similar for some of the alts like ETH.

The whole system is closer to gambling than anything. Not just the crypto markets, but stocks as well. People don't usually buy stocks because they believe in a company, they buy them because they think the stock will rise. Historically/on average, if you do try to buy into companies that you believe in, you'll do worse than the index. There aren't many fund managers that do better than the index, and those that do are generally just lucky. It doesn't matter to them anyway, as they get their % cut regardless. If you ever buy into stocks using a mutual fund or agent of any kind, the first question you ask is how their portfolio has performed in comparison to the index (after their fees). Only a small percentage of these will ever do better.
[/Edit 2]
Says who? You've got no idea what you're talking about, the money might not be insured (well technically the govt bank funds are kinda guaranteed by the central govt) but in terms of ease of doing business wrt banking (people to people) we have a ton of ways, which doesn't always involve paying stupid taxes or unnecessary documentation.
 
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