Now political correctness infects a programming language!

[qubit]

This is ridiculous.

Like other open source communities, Python's minders have been asked whether they really want to continue using the terms "master" and "slave" to describe technical operations and relationships, given that the words remind some people of America's peculiar institution, a historical legacy that fires political passions to this day.

Last week Victor Stinner, a Python developer who works for Red Hat, published four pull requests seeking to change "master" and "slave" in Python documentation and code to terms like "parent," "worker," or something similarly anodyne.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/11/python_purges_master_and_slave_in_political_pogrom

 

[Joss]

This is ridiculous.

It is.

 

[StrayKAT]

If you think that's ridiculous, you apparently haven't heard of "Coraline Ada".. GitHub Policeman. Police-Person, rather. Creator of the "Code of Conduct" for open source projects, which is forcing people out of projects if they don't live up to SJW standards.

 

[Frick]

TBH those probably weren't good terms to begin with. Hard to change though.

Also, I foresee a sane discussion, especially after the SJW term was introduced.

 

[StrayKAT]

TBH those probably weren't good terms to begin with. Hard to change though.

But like the nature of programming itself, they're just abstract. Anyone who actually thinks using it supports slavery is a damn fool. You'd be hard pressed to find one single person from sampling millions who actually support slavery. And the ones who do are running their trade in the dark recesses of society.

It's like if I thought BSD was for devil worshippers because of the logo or inside joke of "daemons".

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I've used "main" and "worker" or "parent" and "child." I've never used "master" and "slave" and the thought has never occurred to me.

 

[StrayKAT]

I'm just going to sit back and wait for the sequel to this awful film (playing worldwide at the moment). Surely it'll get better.

 

[Caring1]

Where were these SJW when IDE drives had those terms printed on them?
Are we to destroy them too?

 

[StrayKAT]

Where were these SJW when IDE drives had those terms printed on them?
Are we to destroy them too?

Aha.. I knew I heard it somewhere else. Kind of blocked IDE out of my mind. It was terrible...for entirely different reasons.

 

[Brusfantomet]

Ohh, that is beyond stupid. Up until this point the worst programing language syntax shenanigans based on social pints was when a Norwegian interest organisation spent money on a dedicated version of C in New Norwegian, so that the 15% of the population that uses that form of Norwegian writing (Norwegian has two written forms, Bokmål and New Norwegian ) could program in it.

Then again, maybe the special snowflakes that feels threatened by the “master/salve” words could make their own wrapper or something, so that they don’t have to see the bad words

 

[StrayKAT]

The name Python itself is misogynist!

 

[rtwjunkie]

What’s even more ridiculous is the picking out of the U.S. and it’s “peculiar institution”. This was not something peculiar to the U.S.

It is a dark institution that has unfortunately happened all over the world and throughout history. Really uneducated persons asked this question of Python’s creators.

 

[qubit]

If you think that's ridiculous, you apparently haven't heard of "Coraline Ada".. GitHub Policeman. Police-Person, rather. Creator of the "Code of Conduct" for open source projects, which is forcing people out of projects if they don't live up to SJW standards.

No, I didn't know about that and it's even worse. Have people really got nothing better to do other than get in the way of other's business? Yeah, I know the answer to that one.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Where were these SJW when IDE drives had those terms printed on them?
Are we to destroy them too?

We kind of already did. Parallel is so out of fashion from a technical standpoint.

IDE was the first thing that came to my mind and I can't think of any logical reason why they called it such. That bothers me.

 

[StrayKAT]

No, I didn't know about that and it's even worse. Have people really got nothing better to do other than get in the way of other's business? Yeah, I know the answer to that one.

This could be potentially a sort of death for open source... if it gains more ground (40,000 projects so far adopted this Code of Conduct). Because Open Source wouldn't even be here if it wasn't simply based on meritocracy (and nothing more/nothing less).

 

[qubit]

We kind of already did. Parallel is so out of fashion from a technical standpoint.

IDE was the first thing that came to my mind and I can't think of any logical reason why they called it such. That bothers me.

I can understand the idea of a parallel interface in that sending data simultaneously along several parallel lines multiplies the overall data rate by the number of lines. However, I never understood it for hard discs, since the data comes off the head serially anyway. I can only think that fast serial transmission over a drive interface wasn't possible back then, or very expensive, maybe.

A parallel interface makes sense for an SSD of course, since the flash chips transfer data as words, ie parallel bits.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I want to see code where master/slave are used in context. Only found one reference so far:
https://github.com/python/cpython/search?p=1&q=master+slave&unscoped_q=master+slave

Which points to Linux specific code:
openpty

Which involves pseudoterminal:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoterminal

That's well established language in UNIX operating systems. Python shouldn't change it because it will translate to confusion. So unless there's some other example...this request seems baseless.

I can understand the idea of a parallel interface in that sending data simultaneously along several parallel lines multiplies the overall data rate by the number of lines. However, I never understood it for hard discs, since the data comes off the head serially anyway. I can only think that fast serial transmission over a drive interface wasn't possible back then, or very expensive, maybe.

A parallel interface makes sense for an SSD of course, since the flash chips transfer data as words, ie parallel bits.

It was a limitation of bandwidth. Parallel could move a lot more data over a distance than serial could. As signaling precision improved, parallel became a liability because it's always waiting for the slowest signal.

 

[Totally]

Someone please slap that man, I'd pay good money see it happen. Well since we're on the subject I recommend Overlord/Minion.

Edit: Yo, Why do PC SJWs always look like closet serial-killers? Victor looks like Randall from Recess, and Coraline has me wondering why was she(?) even mentioned and why did I google that person.

 

[jboydgolfer]

The issue is so-called "progressives", and liberals who claim to be that, view the world with their hate kaleidoscope ,through which everything is racist or biased.

Just like how people will scream "he's a Nazi" if somebody voices an opinion they don't agree with. often hate having no part in the voiced opinion at all, it's their out rage that gives them a sense of justification when applying these labels, and expecting everyone else to follow suit. Sadly the weak minded, and self loathing are all too easily pushed in a direction.

personally, anybody who knows me, knows I'm not a hateful person, I don't have a mean bone in my body (unless the situation calls for it), but I've been called hateful, racist, and several explicit terms that I won't use here. the "funniest" thing about it (if there can be something funny about it),it's prejudice that makes people come up with these labels for others. They'll see you wearing a trump hat, or a make America great again T-shirt, or some other thing your wearing or doing that they disagree with, and they label you a "racist", without speaking a word to you (other than screaming hate rhetoric). Which by definition, is actually prejudice, to prejudge , these are americas "progressives"

so next time the politically correct police are notifying you of your hateful ways, take a minute to think, who's the hateful one?

Im personally taking a proactive step, I sit down with our kids on a regular basis ,and disseminate the rhetoric ,and the leftist insanity they pick up at school (30 genders, white guilt,etc and all the other trash) . I show them facts ,and allow them to formulate their own opinions. And I'm always teaching them factual history ,and reality . I shiver at the thought of my kids being surrounded & taught by teachers like the ones at Evergreen College, and about 90% of the other colleges .

Regarding nomenclature in programming, I can see why the change is a bit absurd, but I can also see why the words might bother some people. However master and slave are used in many applications, and this idea of changing the world to fit a narrative ,because it might bother some ,even in the most mundane situations strikes me as a bit silly

 

[qubit]

The issue is so-called "progressives", and liberals who claim to be that, view the world with their hate kaleidoscope ,through which everything is racist or biased.

Just like how people will scream "he's a Nazi" if somebody voices an opinion they don't agree with. often hate having no part in the voiced opinion at all, it's their out rage that gives them a sense of justification when applying these labels, and expecting everyone else to follow suit. Sadly the weak minded, and self loathing are all too easily pushed in a direction.

personally, anybody who knows me, knows I'm not a hateful person, I don't have a mean bone in my body (unless the situation calls for it), but I've been called hateful, racist, and several explicit terms that I won't use here. the "funniest" thing about it (if there can be something funny about it),it's prejudice that makes people come up with these labels for others. They'll see you wearing a trump hat, or a make America great again T-shirt, or some other thing your wearing or doing that they disagree with, and they label you a "racist", without speaking a word to you (other than screaming hate rhetoric). Which by definition, is actually prejudice, to prejudge , these are americas "progressives"

so next time the politically correct police are notifying you of your hateful ways, take a minute to think, who's the hateful one?

Im personally taking a proactive step, I sit down with our kids on a regular basis ,and disseminate the rhetoric ,and the leftist insanity they pick up at school (30 genders, white guilt,etc and all the other trash) . I show them facts ,and allow them to formulate their own opinions. And I'm always teaching them factual history ,and reality .

Agree with all of it, especially the bold bit. The hypocricy is rife and that includes what's happening with software code, too (to keep this on topic).

It was a limitation of bandwidth. Parallel could move a lot more data over a distance than serial could. As signaling precision improved, parallel became a liability because it's always waiting for the slowest signal.

I think there were a few other limitations too, such as RF interference between the signal lines and perhaps the flexibility and reliability of the cables, since the more wires there are, the higher the chances of a failure at some point.

Shame that the real world gets in the way like this really, because in principle, you want every line to go as fast as possible and then to have as many lines as possible to multiply up that speed to really high levels.

 

[Bones]

I'll add that when this comes up, who's doing the actual attacking?
It never fails they are the ones on the offensive and if you don't fall in line they have a problem with it.

It's about control as it's always been since the beginning of civilization itself and in this case it's telling you to use these new terms or else - Meaning a form of thought policing.

I think for myself, can't do that for anyone else because it's really up to you.
Never let anyone tell you otherwise.

BTW I'm not a politician to even worry about being "Politically Correct" anyway.
I am my own person and will be period.

 

[jboydgolfer]

Agree with all of it, especially the bold bit. The hypocricy is rife and that includes what's happening with software code, too (to keep this on topic).

The same people are responsible for what I mentioned, and the programming nomenclature. They expect reality to be what they see, and if they see "hate" they attack it, the problem is everybody might not see hate, since its often not there. The scary part is when you start attacking wording, you begin attacking speech, which leads to attacking free speech. Which in my opinion is why this all ties together, "they" don't want free speech, or an open discourse and forum to discuss. It's my belief that the end to go to this, (which i will avoid since it is off topic) is bad for all, but those instigating the bully tactics are either ignorant of it, or are intentionally working toward silencing all other opinions. It starts with words & moves to communication. Unfortunately, it's hard to talk about this stuff in a realistic, and Objective way ,without sounding like a nut job, like Alex Jones or some other crazy wing nut.

Free speech isn't for protecting approved ideas and safe opinions, it's for protecting the unpopular, and dangerous opinions, because that's how good change happens, by weeding through 100 bad ideas to find the one good one that changes the world for the better (talking about a scientific formulated view of the universe in our history was considered heresy and politically incorrect) . And for that reason I am against any censorship , or modification of any kind (sensibly).

 

[Totally]

The same people are responsible for what I mentioned, and the programming nomenclature. They expect reality to be what they see, and if they see "hate" they attack it, the problem is everybody might not see hate, since its often not there. The scary part is when you start attacking wording, you begin attacking speech, which leads to attacking free speech. Which in my opinion is why this all ties together, "they" don't want free speech, or an open discourse and forum to discuss. It's my belief that the end to go to this, (which i will avoid since it is off topic) is bad for all, but those instigating the bully tactics are either ignorant of it, or are intentionally working toward silencing all other opinions. It starts with words & moves to communication. Unfortunately, it's hard to talk about this stuff in a realistic, and Objective way ,without sounding like a nut job, like Alex Jones or some other crazy wing nut.

Free speech isn't for protecting approved ideas and safe opinions, it's for protecting the unpopular, and dangerous opinions, because that's how good change happens, by weeding through 100 bad ideas to find the one good one that changes the world for the better (talking about a scientific formulated view of the universe in our history was considered heresy and politically incorrect) . And for that reason I am against any censorship , or modification of any kind (sensibly).

yep, I can't take most those types serious at all. Rarely do they present a rational and logical argument to back their opinion and when they do have one they're completely biased to the point they ignore facts or just disregard all other counterarguments. For example this guy here, has an issue with the words master/slave inferring the relationship between to functions and deems that they are inappropriate, I'm guessing slave in particular. If they're inappropriate in this case when would those two words ever appropriate being attributed to anything? Might as well strike the word slave from the dictionary.

 

[R-T-B]

I've used "main" and "worker" or "parent" and "child." I've never used "master" and "slave" and the thought has never occurred to me.

Ditto.

It's still silly though.

And hey, I'm a progressive! Agreeing with you guys! Breaking the mold!

 

[hat]

Really? Even as someone who, in the other similar thread, looked back and admitted I may inherently have some "privilege" over other less fortunate (in one way or another) people than myself, I think this is a bit ridiculous. What master? What slave? Are we now looking out for the disadvantaged bits of code in a programming language? I'm glad somebody brought up the old IDE drives; that's where I first saw the master/slave terminology as well... and while I did think it was a bit odd terminology, nobody seemed to mind, and we tossed the words "master" and "slave" around while discussing these drives like it was nothing. Maybe that's because we were discussing mere inanimate objects. What's next? Are we going to have to rename the garden hoe?

This is the type of thing I mentioned in the other thread that really bothers me about these PC people. These loud, in your face people finding everything wrong with anything... these same people complaining about this now are, to re-use an example, probably the same people who would say I'm implying that women are somehow incapable of opening doors on their own by holding it open.