Battlefield V with GeForce RTX DirectX Raytracing

[HTC]

That part is coming, but still some ways away. Even AMD isn't going "chiplet" GPU anytime soon, though if I'd have to guess I'd say Nvidia, with their extra cash, will deploy something like that first.

AMD’s Navi will be a traditional monolithic GPU, not a multi-chip module

I didn't mean it in an MCM type of way: i meant it as a full card. Think of it as a 2nd GPU, that has no display options and it's sole purpose is to enable RT with the primary GPU.

Ofc nVidia being nVidia would make sure such a card would only work with nVidia primary GPUs ...

 

[R0H1T]

I didn't mean it in an MCM type of way: i meant it as a full card. Think of it as a 2nd GPU, that has no display options and it's sole purpose is to enable RT with the primary GPU.

Ofc nVidia being nVidia would make sure such a card would only work with nVidia primary GPUs ...

Such accelerators, if you can call them that, will be more common yes.

Nvidia's bread & butter is GPU, they'll make every effort to make sure their solutions are less open than they can be.

 

[rtwjunkie]

i dont blame the plebs for not being able to afford it.. i do blame them for knocking it just because they cant afford it.

Get off your epeen-ed high horse. No one is knocking it because they can't afford it. I bought my 1080Ti after these came out and I am plenty happy, just like @INSTG8R is happy with his purchase. It's actually possible to have a negative view of something and it not be about envy. The only ones who talk about envy are the ones that have more money than they know what to do with and like to brag.

 

[sweet]

To be honest, if someone purchase a flagship like 2080ti for gaming, they either play on 4K or high refesh rate monitors. It is safe to say RT is utterly useless for them.

I myself bought some for those tensor cores, and might pull off a BF 5 run @1080p on the machine learning workstation in my lab. Maybe people like me are the target audience of RT

 

[caleb]

Wizzard please comparison on 6 core 9600K vs 8700 vs 2700x on multiplayer ?

 

[INSTG8R]

Again, what I think doesn't matter. This card clearly is not made for YOU or for others with budgets in mind. Why do you care so much how other people spend their money?

Why is it you even think this has anything to do with others peoples choices or mine ? YOU made it about that. It has to do with NVIDIA hyping up a card priced higher than ever for its tier with the promise RTRT and not delivering anything close to worthwhile experience or performance. That’s what I care about.

I’ll say this one more time slow for you. I’m very happy with my Vega my 1440 144hz Freesync monitor with HDR. All my tech works as advertised doesn’t kill my performance and was all priced reasonably.

I feel sorry for people like you who are apologists for poor products and try to twist it about budgets or my needs Nvidia like# people like you and will continue to charge premium prices as people like you will find some way to justify getting screwed
@trog I’m glad you’re happy with your purchase and that is wasn’t base-on RTRT capability at least you’re not like Rhino trying to justify your purchase but trust me nobody’s jealous.

 

[Easy Rhino]

Why is it you even think this has anything to do with others peoples choices or mine ? YOU made it about that. It has to do with NVIDIA hyping up a card priced higher than ever for its tier with the promise RTRT and not delivering anything close to worthwhile experience or performance. That’s what I care about.

I’ll say this one more time slow for you. I’m very happy with my Vega my 1440 144hz Freesync monitor with HDR. All my tech works as advertised doesn’t kill my performance and was all priced reasonably.

I feel sorry for people like you who are apologists for poor products and try to twist it about budgets or my needs Nvidia like# people like you and will continue to charge premium prices as people like you will find some way to justify getting screwed
@trog I’m glad you’re happy with your purchase and that is wasn’t base-on RTRT capability at least you’re not like Rhino trying to justify your purchase but trust me nobody’s jealous.

I am sorry if you are taking this personally. I am doing my best to demonstrate just the opposite. You don't think it is a worthwhile experience therefore this card is not for YOU. Isn't that okay? Isn't it okay if someone enjoys spending that kind of money for ray tracing? Why are YOU the judge and jury on what a worthwhile experience is?

 

[INSTG8R]

I am sorry if you are taking this personally. I am doing my best to demonstrate just the opposite. You don't think it is a worthwhile experience therefore this card is not for YOU. Isn't that okay? Isn't it okay if someone enjoys spending that kind of money for ray tracing? Why are YOU the judge and jury on what a worthwhile experience is?

No it’s not okay you’re passive aggressively trolling at this point. I’m not judge and jury the benchmarks are that is what I’m railing against. You re making it personal and you should really stop.
High price with poor performance on the feature they were trying to sell it on. If I was accepting of such things like you seem to be they will continue this trend which benefits no one but Nvidia and not the user.
What I take personally is you making it about me and not the product.

 

[unikin]

I am sorry if you are taking this personally. I am doing my best to demonstrate just the opposite. You don't think it is a worthwhile experience therefore this card is not for YOU. Isn't that okay? Isn't it okay if someone enjoys spending that kind of money for ray tracing? Why are YOU the judge and jury on what a worthwhile experience is?

I would be OK if Nvidia has given us a choice by building one classical GPU with double CUDA cores without RTX and RTX 2080TI for the same price and let the market decide which one it likes better. As things stand right now, we're getting no where near enough performance to push VR to 4K resolution levels or 4K 90-144Hz gaming nor usable frame rates at 4K with RTX on. That's why no one is happy. OK, maybe green fanboys who would buy any crap NVidia sells them and say it's great.

 

[mouacyk]

This is complete utter market leadership shenanigan...

 

[Vya Domus]

You don't think it is a worthwhile experience therefore this card is not for YOU.

Believe it or not there are things out there that are objectivity not great regardless of what one feels on a per individual case.

It's safe to say in this case, it's not a great experience, objectively.

 

[londiste]

I wish for once we could have a thread where we could discuss technical sides of the thing and would not devolve into meaningless bullshit.

@W1zzard - what about the power consumption? What happens to the clocks when you all of a sudden engage the RTX cores on the card.

I can answer that - power consumption is exactly the same. Turing cards are power limited and BFV runs the card into power limit with or without DXR effects. Clock speeds are also identical as well as temperatures.
It would be logical to assume RT cores take some performance away from rest of the GPU but that is not visible in clocks, power consumption or temperature.

Wow that's bad. Now imagine the performance if some dev tries to implement more RT stuff like shadows , AO or global illumination and not just shiny reflections...

Actually, shadows, AO or global illumination should be less of a performance hogs than reflections.

 

[birdie]

@W1zzard

It requires you to not only have Windows 10, but also the latest "October Update".

I'm tired of hearing that. DXR is now official with Vulkan 1.1.91 which works on Windows 7.

It's not NVIDIA's fault that most game engines default to D3D - some companies have actually the guts to use Vulkan like id Software.

Also, quite a lot of modern engines have Vulkan backends - so, this Windows 10 requirement for DXR is plain BS. For some reasons you also repeat this in all your RTX cards reviews.

 

[londiste]

DXR = DirectX Raytracing
This is as standardized as raytracing can get for now.
Vulkan does have the Nvidia RTX extensions out of beta by now but I have seen some (considerable) scoffing towards that as these are still Nvidia extensions and not a "full native" Vulkan thing.

 

[INSTG8R]

DXR = DirectX Raytracing
This is as standardized as raytracing can get for now.
Vulkan does have the Nvidia RTX extensions out of beta by now but I have seen some (considerable) scoffing towards that as these are still Nvidia extensions and not a "full native" Vulkan thing.

Exactly this isn’t Nvidia “Special Sauce” it’s now part of DX12 No reason AMD can’t leverage it if they chose to.

 

[trog100]

the thing is some people feel the need to upgrade every so often.. i do and if i dont i lose all interest in whatever i am into at the time..

the current problem is an upgrade costs too much.. for me to upgrade my system i would be talking a couple of grand from where i was.. i dont need to upgrade to play games.. but to maintain my interest as an "enthusiast" i do.. i have other hobbies and the same principle applies.. stop buying new stuff and enthusiast wains..

its just how i am some would call it a progression which once it stops the game stops.. i think the same principle allies to most folks.. and i can also see why over expensive high end stuff creates haters.. their game stops too soon..

trog

 

[Xzibit]

Only 1 RT RT features are being used in BFV and its causing a 50%+ performance hit.

Included with this update will be the first release of DXR ray-traced reflections

 

[unikin]

the thing is some people feel the need to upgrade every so often.. i do and if i dont i lose all interest in whatever i am into at the time..

the current problem is an upgrade costs too much.. for me to upgrade my system i would be talking a couple of grand from where i was.. i dont need to upgrade to play games.. but to maintain my interest as an "enthusiast" i do.. i have other hobbies and the same principle applies.. stop buying new stuff and enthusiast wains..

its just how i am some would call it a progression which once it stops the game stops.. i think the same principle allies to most folks.. and i can also see why over expensive high end stuff creates haters.. their game stops too soon..

trog

It's not just price, it's about price/performance ratio which is probably the worst deal in 30 years GPU history. If RTX 2080TI could offer +90 fps at 4-5K resolution, I'd buy it immediately for my VR headset. As it is it's only marginally faster than 1080TI (10%) when used with high res VR hmd and costs 70 % more. Here lies my disappointment. Much more expensive for very marginal improvement.

 

[stimpy88]

...power consumption is exactly the same. Turing cards are power limited and BFV runs the card into power limit with or without DXR effects. Clock speeds are also identical as well as temperatures.
It would be logical to assume RT cores take some performance away from rest of the GPU but that is not visible in clocks, power consumption or temperature.
Actually, shadows, AO or global illumination should be less of a performance hogs than reflections.

That’s an interesting point you have there... I would like to know why this RT core, which is half the die, takes no power when active, and generates no heat, yet cripples the cards performance while RT effects are being rendered? Odd indeed.

Is this RT core always active, and not power gated, or is it just marketing BS from nGreedia? Could the real clock speed be severely reduced while the RT cores are doing their thing to keep power and thermals under control? You would think given all of nGreedias marketing on this RT core, regarding its complexity and sheer speed, that it would result in an AVX kind of situation with power and thermals in the GPU.

Only 1 RT RT features are being used in BFV and its causing a 50%+ performance hit.

We have heard that the Tomb Raider game is affected even more, and that they are having massive issues raising performance up enough. They were apparently looking in to more granularity regarding how they were using RT effects to assist in this effort. Could just be a rumour, but this was in the press not long after the RTX launch.

 

[trog100]

That’s an interesting point you have there... I would like to know why this RT core, which is half the die, takes no power when active, and generates no heat, yet cripples the cards performance while RT effects are being rendered? Odd indeed.

Is this RT core always active, and not power gated, or is it just marketing BS from nGreedia. Could the real clock speed be severely reduced while the RT cores are doing their thing to keep power and thermals under control?


We have heard that the Tomb Raider game is affected even more.

i think it must work that way.. boost power is diverted to the ray tracing chips..

trog

 

[Robcostyle]

That just damn terrifying....lurking through forums for the moment - and how many fanboys are there, protecting ngreedia, not listening anyone. Are they protecting their (barren) purchase? Okay, let 2080 Ti go with its ~60 FPS in 1080p, but what about 2080? Last, 2070 seems to be just a joke in any term.

 

[Mistral]

So, the 2700 essentially can't manage it at 1080p. Even with a 2080Ti, I don't see many people enabling it in a multiplayer game. nVidia must be more selective whete they push this feature for the moment - it would work much better in a slower-paced single-player game, like a RE for example.

I guess it'll be at least two more generations before this hits mainstream in any meaningful way. And by then, hopefully instead of the current quality RTX, we will hopefully get something better, like Path Tracing.

 

[stimpy88]

i think it must work that way.. boost power is diverted to the ray tracing chips..

trog

This is my take on what’s going on in the chip, I could be very wrong, but it has to be managed somehow, if nGreedia is to be believed as to the implementation, size and computational performance of these RT cores, then it’s a miracle it comes with no power or thermal implications whatsoever.

Maybe this could be part of the performance issues here, and if there is headroom in the chip, as well as it’s thermal and power solutions, then it’s possible this load balancing could be altered to provide more performance during RT loads, depending on where the performance bottleneck is.

Maybe this load balancing would have to be on a per-game basis, or some kind of real-time governor implemented in the graphics driver. Given the mess that nGreedias drivers have been with the RTX series so far, maybe they haven’t implemented it yet, or maybe it’s bugged?

It’s hard to believe that nGreedia would have dropped the ball this badly, given the time they have had to write drivers for these cards, as well as the fact that they release “game ready” drivers just for this first publicly available RTX title, but it’s possible...

 

[Robcostyle]

So, the 2700 essentially can't manage it at 1080p. Even with a 2080Ti, I don't see many people enabling it in a multiplayer game. nVidia must be more selective whete they push this feature for the moment - it would work much better in a slower-paced single-player game, like a RE for example.

I guess it'll be at least two more generations before this hits mainstream in any meaningful way. And by then, hopefully instead of the current quality RTX, we will hopefully get something better, like Path Tracing.

Well, yeah, the problem is - bf raytracing is only a part - try including shadows and overall ambient lightning, and those card won't even make it in 1080p. Plus, take into account that BFV (and BF series at all) are fairly optimized - so there's additional penalty possible in other titles.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Except you really seem to have missed the dismal FPS on 1440 with RTX on.

I did not. Again I referenced turning off AA which would very likely offset the performance hit of jumping to 1440p. Hoping for an RTX/RTRT game release on GOG or Steam soon so I can run some benchmarks on my own system.

Could easily have said the same about 4k as even a 1080 Ti struggles to maintain fps that justify having a $2500 144 hz IPS screen .... just not there yet. OTOH, it's a very good time with respect to this.

Exactly!

people really don't understand how computationally expensive ray tracing is...

Or how amazing it is to do in real-time what took minutes and sometimes hours per frame just a few short years ago.

Performance is poor and the numbers back it up.

Performance is acceptable. Above 30FPS is bare minimum playable. At or above 60FPS is good, which at 1080p is still good for most PC users. You need some cheese with your whine..

Get off your epeen-ed high horse. No one is knocking it because they can't afford it. I bought my 1080Ti after these came out and I am plenty happy, just like @INSTG8R is happy with his purchase. It's actually possible to have a negative view of something and it not be about envy. The only ones who talk about envy are the ones that have more money than they know what to do with and like to brag.

While I think Trog has a good point, it can't apply to everyone bemoaning RTX. Personally, I like my 2080. Even without the RTRT aspect it's a great performer. I am excited to see what can be done with RTRT and what it can bring to the table, gaming wise.

No it’s not okay you’re passive aggressively trolling at this point.

Gonna have to agree with EasyRhino, you are being judgmental and condescending, effectively trolling everyone who wants or owns an RTX card. It's not cool. Just chill and let people enjoy what they want to enjoy.