Singaporean Retailer Lists Purported Ryzen 3000 Pricing

[SL2]

it does look promising on many dimensions.but I think the main question is the I/O die design.has this ever been done before ?

I wonder how it affects latencies, something that AMD doesn't have a great track record of. A similar design has already reached the market though with the Zen 2 Epyc (I think?).

 

[Vayra86]

it does look promising on many dimensions.but I think the main question is the I/O die design.has this ever been done before ?
zen 2 is supposed to be on par with skylake in single core performance.and it probably is,when measuring each core individually.it's the mutli-core desing of having ccx's conntected by IF that is the reason for e.g. 2700x getting beaten by 8400 is many instances of single core heavy games.

And yet... even the 8400 runs into the same constraints of that single thread. Fighting Intel on that front is a pointless battle over the last 5-10%. That is peanuts really, isn't it. Its the USP for Intel and the reason we buy it today. But even Intel has reached a pinnacle here, so its a trade off: total stagnation on that front versus a minor ST performance trade off to actually progress further.

I think you're also forgetting that Intel will need to lose the ringbus with higher core counts, which might also hurt latency.

But, as always: software software software...

 

[cucker tarlson]

And yet... even the 8400 runs into the same constraints of that single thread. Fighting Intel on that front is a pointless battle over the last 5-10%. That is peanuts really, isn't it. Its the USP for Intel and the reason we buy it today. But even Intel has reached a pinnacle here, so its a trade off: total stagnation on that front versus a minor ST performance trade off to actually progress further.

I think you're also forgetting that Intel will need to lose the ringbus with higher core counts, which might also hurt latency.

But, as always: software software software...

we'll see,the frequency increase and ipc increase will be there,but the chip is getting a resesign strictly because of the more cores approach.cannon lake is supposed to come out 2019 too (that can go wrong fast tho ).I think intel has signalled that their approach has not changed much,they'll be pushing more faster single core like they always have. I think the amd has to avoid a situation where increasing core count for enthusiasts will cost them falling further behind in single core performance.

 

[Vayra86]

we'll see,the frequency increase and ipc increase will be there,but the chip is getting a resesign strictly because of the more cores approach.cannon lake is supposed to come out 2019 too (that can go wrong fast tho ).I think intel has signalled that their approach has not changed much,they'll be pushing more faster single core like they always have. I think the amd has to avoid a situation where increasing core count for enthusiasts will cost them falling further behind in single core performance.

Cannon lake so far is nothing but wet gunpowder but yeah, I can see your concerns.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Cannon lake so far is nothing but wet gunpowder but yeah, I can see your concerns.

lol,made me think of this.
intel preparing cannonlake for Zen 2 launch

 

[TheLostSwede]

Considering the motherboard makers haven't had the final CPU SKU's, this may or may not be the real deal.
That said, my understanding is that the prices are in the rough ballpark of what AMD has informed the board makers that the CPUs will sell at.
Don't expect anything beyond 12 cores at launch though and the clock speeds should be taken with a healthy dose of salt. Don't expect the 12-16 core SKU's with all cores overclocked at 5GHz, it won't happen.

 

[EarthDog]

Considering the motherboard makers haven't had the final CPU SKU's, this may or may not be the real deal.
That said, my understanding is that the prices are in the rough ballpark of what AMD has informed the board makers that the CPUs will sell at.
Don't expect anything beyond 12 cores at launch though and the clock speeds should be taken with a healthy dose of salt. Don't expect the 12-16 core SKU's with all cores overclocked at 5GHz, it won't happen.

I don't think anyone expected all cores/threads to 5 Ghz... even the rumors say its boost clocks...

That said, I still don't buy it... but as I said earlier, I am hopeful, and my mouth is open ready to insert foot if needed.

 

[MIRTAZAPINE]

Hmm Bizgram I know this local shop. I can drop down by for more info.

 

[notb]

yeah, let's argue for having less hardware! it makes perfect sense! So instead of paying 500 bux for a 16 core, I'd rather pay 500 bux for an 8 core. Btw: If these Zen2 cores match Skylake IPC and clocks, $200 3600 will match $488 9900K.

I prefer to pay $500 for the hardware that's best at what I need it for.

Look how many years were sat on 4 cores just because there were no competition, software will catch up.

Software won't magically catch up. A lot of software will have to be rewritten from scratch (assuming any improvement is possible). And it's been happening for years now because of cloud.
But we're still years away from a situation when 16 cores make sense in a typical use scenario at home.
Of course, you can utilize as many cores as you want by running multiple applications.
Not so long ago we've been persuaded that 8 cores are a must have for gaming, because you can game and stream.
So now what? We'll be able to game, stream, run antivir and compress backups?

Yep! Intel stagnated the maket with quads for what, a decade? Nobody had any incentive to produce more threaded software. Ryzen changed that. But still Intel fans will find a way to argue that having less cores is better.

Is there any way we could finally convince you that software is not "produced threaded"?
Have you ever had any kind of exposure to programming? Work? Studies? High school at least?

 

[GoldenX]

Those 3300G and 3600G look really tasty.

 

[notb]

I think you're also forgetting that Intel will need to lose the ringbus with higher core counts, which might also hurt latency.

Not true.
Intel has been making ring bus CPUs up to 22 cores (2 rings). Zero problems.
The fact that AMD couln't make ring bus work on 8 cores doesn't mean someone else can't.

Also, current mesh interconnect (Xeon Scalable) is already faster than AMD IF. So don't be afraid. Our future is still low-latency. Maybe AMD will catch up.

 

[GoldenX]

Not true.
Intel has been making ring bus CPUs up to 22 cores (2 rings). Zero problems.
The fact that AMD couln't make ring bus work on 8 cores doesn't mean someone else can't.

Also, current mesh interconnect (Xeon Scalable) is already faster than AMD IF. So don't be afraid. Our future is still low-latency. Maybe AMD will catch up.

At those prices, man...

 

[Fouquin]

@EarthDog When asked of the people what they wanted from an automobile, they replied, "a faster horse".

Progress is not bad, even if it appears superfluous at first. So you don't use the features now, that's has no bearing on what will come in the future. Look at all the people who bought the i7-2600K. It was considered overkill at the time, dual-cores were still perfectly fine and there was no need for 8 threads. Quite a few of those early adopters are still very content with their purchase decision now after nearly a decade. The industry moves forward at different rates and eventually things catch up.

 

[RealNeil]

Most of the points made here are a little premature. Once these release to the public, I'll be checking reviews and evaluating what will work best for me.
The 3700X ~sounds~ pretty sweet to me, but who knows what reality will bring?

Lisa Su, can you please chime in here and settle this?

 

[Naito]

I'll take an R7 3700X or R9 3850X, thanks

Hurry up AMD!

 

[Vya Domus]

Progress is not bad, even if it appears superfluous at first. So you don't use the features now, that's has no bearing on what will come in the future. Look at all the people who bought the i7-2600K. It was considered overkill at the time, dual-cores were still perfectly fine and there was no need for 8 threads. Quite a few of those early adopters are still very content with their purchase decision now after nearly a decade. The industry moves forward at different rates and eventually things catch up.

I've seen a guy on this forum argue that AMD's 300$ 1700 was actually a bad thing for the market and wished 8 core parts remained out of the reach of mainstream consumers. I am always amazed by the stuff people come up with in order to deny reality and progress just because it doesn't come in their preferred color.

To hell with those morons working at AMD bringing cheaper, more powerful CPUs to the market. And those blithering idiots from Intel also, doubling up on core counts too in less than 2 years ? What the hell is the industry thinking, better listen to real illuminated minds here.

 

[GoldenX]

If the prices are true, we are finally advancing after 10 years of stagnation. We can finally say, Athlon II X4, thanks for your service.

 

[GamerGuy]

I'm from Singapore actually, and I've been to Bizram a few times, they stock some of the latest and greatest, bought an RTX 2080 Ti there when very, very few elsewhere that had them in stock. I will check out that shop come Zen2/Ryzen 3 release, the 3700X looks awfully tempting....

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Those 3300G and 3600G look really tasty.

Not to be a rain cloud, but I have serious doubts about the whole list due to these parts being on there. Back at CES, AMD announced their 3000 series mobile lineup. These are 12nm+ chips based on Zen 1.5, and they have Vega graphics. I don’t see why they would have bothered with a 12nm refresh here and then launch a 7nm Zen 2 desktop chip with an IGP based on Navi and also call it a 3000 series. Seems redundant and confusing. The mobile 3000 is an odd move, unless there is no desktop 3000G line.

 

[SL2]

AMD messed up the names with Ryzen APU's. 2200G and 2400G are 14 nm, but the model number implies being made in 12 nm, and so on.

 

[Space Lynx]

My hitch is just that everything with every zen 2 leak sounds too perfectly in line with what everyone on the hype train wants. That, in itself, is suspect to me. I personally dont expect core counts to go up for every chip in the lineup. Seems unrealistic and unneeded. Why cannabalize Zen + so soon? I also dont expect 5ghz. Close, maybe. Between those two things and prices tossed out, one of those three things cannot be.

keep in mind, when AMD says 5ghz, they mean 1 core boosting to 5ghz, easily doable probably for Zen 2, the real test will be can you go into BIOS settings and just turn all cores to 5 ghz real easy like you can with intel chips - something tells me no it will be difficult and require tweaking/voltage adjustments to do that. also XMP ram was still hit or miss with x470 mobo's, I know a few people who had to manually tweak their ram to get it to run stable.

I am really hoping they got those two kinks worked out. if the price is right though, I won't care. I am leaning towards that 3700x myself.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

AMD messed up the names with Ryzen APU's. 2200G and 2400G are 14 nm, but the model number implies being made in 12 nm, and so on.

It’s another piece of the puzzle. When AMD launched Zen, they had no IGP parts. 6 months in, they announced those, and while being on 14nm, they had architectural improvements that put them closer to Zen refresh, so they got the 2x00 naming. In the same manner, the 12nm+ 3000 mobile chips came later that the other 12nm+ chips. It would stand to reason that the IGP parts are on a different product cycle than non-IGP parts, so AMD launching new IGP parts along with the desktop parts would be a break from that pattern. Not impossible, but certainly a departure. And yes, their IGP naming is a mess that needs fixing.

keep in mind, when AMD says 5ghz, they mean 1 core boosting to 5ghz, easily doable probably for Zen 2, the real test will be can you go into BIOS settings and just turn all cores to 5 ghz real easy like you can with intel chips - something tells me no it will be difficult and require tweaking/voltage adjustments to do that. also XMP ram was still hit or miss with x470 mobo's, I know a few people who had to manually tweak their ram to get it to run stable.

I am really hoping they got those two kinks worked out. if the price is right though, I won't care. I am leaning towards that 3700x myself.

I dunno, current models of Ryzen seem to be able to boost multiple cores to the rated speed. My 2400G would happily run all 4 cores at 3.9GHz when the proper cooling was there.

 

[SL2]

It’s another piece of the puzzle. When AMD launched Zen, they had no IGP parts. 6 months in, they announced those, and while being on 14nm, they had architectural improvements that put them closer to Zen refresh, so they got the 2x00 naming.

True, and at the same time they're gimped, with less L3 cache and x8 PCIE, for obvious reasons.

I wonder what plans AMD have for 7 nm mobile, as I can't imagine the same design being used there as desktop 3000. My bet is a single die design launching a year after the mobile 3000H/U.

Which begs the question, will the desktop APU also be a single die design? I know about the rumor of having a separate GPU die, but it seems like a better idea to make these together with mobile APU's.

 

[Super XP]

I found this online. Very interesting about how much different ZEN 2 is over ZEN 1. Almost like a major overhaul.

QUOTE:
1) Instead of having each die contain CPUs, memory controllers, and I/O (As seen in original ZEN), The New Design splits up the different roles. One single 14nm I/O die, with eight memory controllers, eight Infinity Fabric ports, and PCIe lanes.
2) 7nm "chiplets" containing only CPUs and Infinity Fabric.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...uture-7nm-gpus-with-pcie-4-zen-2-zen-3-zen-4/

 

[SL2]

eight memory controllers, eight Infinity Fabric ports

That must be EPYC and not Ryzen, right?

Hmm Bizgram I know this local shop. I can drop down by for more info.

I'm from Singapore actually, and I've been to Bizram a few times, they stock some of the latest and greatest...

Are prices with or without taxes in that list, what do you think?

By the way, the chips are gone from the latest pdf, no surprise there.