Atari is working on its first console in more than 20 years

[lexluthermiester]

they suffer from latency

What latency would that be? If you're talking about the 20ms difference between the SNES Mini and a real SNES(I have both), that is equal to 20/1000th's of a second, or 1/500th of a second if you prefer. No human being on the face of the Earth can distinguish 1/500th of a second in real time. So I'm calling FUD on that one.

horrible ergonomics, because it really just is an el cheapo plastic box with a bit of branding

Your opinion, not shared by all, or even most.

and super weak hardware.

The hardware does exactly what it was designed to do, play SNES titles, giving an enhanced yet authentic experience to the player. And it does this well, perfectly as far a I can tell.

but that doesn't represent any type of quality except nostalgia.

Not true. Have you actually used a NES or SNES Mini? The build is solid, and is of high quality materials, better than the originals IMO.

That's also clearly what Atari is betting on here.

I don't doubt it. And as was said before, if they get it right they'll have a cool little system on their hands. Even if they only tweak Nintendo's example, they will succeed and the VCS will be something fun and interesting.

 

[Vayra86]

What latency would that be? If you're talking about the 20ms difference between the SNES Mini and a real SNES(I have both), that is equal to 20/1000th's of a second, or 1/500th of a second if you prefer. No human being on the face of the Earth can distinguish 1/500th of a second in real time. So I'm calling FUD on that one.

20ms is quite a lot, that is also on top of the 20-30ms added by even the fastest HDTV.

 

[lexluthermiester]

20ms is quite a lot, that is also on top of the 20-30ms added by even the fastest HDTV.

With my TV in game mode, the real SNES has 70ish ms, with the SNES mini it's 90ish(averages). That's less than 1/100th of a second total latency. For classic gaming, you're not going feel the difference. Even modern gaming, it isn't bad. Could be better true, but it could also be a ton worse. If Atari gets it in those ranges, it will be good.

Here's another perspective as well, but before I continue, see these;

Granted, both reviewers had their complaints but the C64 Mini seems to be a quality bit of kit. This is what most people are hoping for with Atari's VCS, but much better.

 

[Vayra86]

With my TV in game mode, the real SNES has 70ish ms, with the SNES mini it's 90ish(averages). That's less than 1/100th of a second total latency. For classic gaming, you're not going feel the difference. Even modern gaming, it isn't bad. Could be better true, but it could also be a ton worse. If Atari gets it in those ranges, it will be good.

Here's another perspective as well, but before I continue, see these;

Granted, both reviewers had their complaints but the C64 Mini seems to be a quality bit of kit. This is what most people are hoping for with Atari's VCS, but much better.

Ah I see where the disconnect is now between us. I am comparing input lag to the original, analog experience, you are comparing it on HDTV's only. Regardless, 90ms = 6 frames @ 60 fps which is significant, and 70ms = 4.6 frames... of course, for some casual gaming 'it will do' but it is worse than any other gaming setup you can find.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Ah I see where the disconnect is now between us. I am comparing input lag to the original, analog experience, you are comparing it on HDTV's only.

Oh ok, that makes sense. However, in game mode most displays are as responsive as CRT displays or only slightly off.

Regardless, 90ms = 6 frames @ 60 fps which is significant, and 70ms = 4.6 frames...

I think your math might be off. 1ms=1/1000th of a second. So 90ms is equal to less than 1/100th of a second which is less than 1 frame every second, at 60hz. The input lag wouldn't become noticeable until above 100hz. This is something I started testing to see if there was any truth to the frame lag issues people complained about years ago only to discover it was real.

of course, for some casual gaming 'it will do' but it is worse than any other gaming setup you can find.

I can't fully agree with that. I've been gaming since the early day of the original Atari VCS released in the late 70's and tech today is far better than it ever has been, as long as you buy the right equipment.

 

[Vayra86]

Oh ok, that makes sense. However, in game mode most displays are as responsive as CRT displays or only slightly off.

I think you math might be off. 1ms=1/1000th of a second. So 90ms is equal to less than 1/100th of a second which is less than 1 frame every second, at 60hz. The input lag wouldn't become noticeable until above 100hz. This is something I started testing to see if there was any truth to the frame lag issues people complained about years ago only to discover it was real.

I can't fully agree with that. I've been gaming since the early day of the original Atari VCS released in the late 70's and tech today is far better than it ever has been, as long as you buy the right equipment.

16.67ms is the frame time of a single frame at 60 fps. If you have 90ms delay, you are 90/16.67 = 5,39 frames behind on input, which is nearly 10%.

At 30 fps you can halve that number, but it is still significant and as a measurement of time the delay is of course equal. However, at 30 fps you have half the opportunity to register an input as well.

You can translate this to 'normal seconds' all day but there is a reason people seek to minimize input lag and this is it. Real seconds can take 'extremely long'; have you ever fallen off a great height? You know how people always describe that as 'the seconds seemed to take forever' or how in that brief moment 'life passes by before them'? Heightened awareness and concentration creates a different perception of time and allows us to respond fast - really fast. Our brain can process information extremely fast, only our physical response is limited.

Latency is a strange beast, but what you have to consider is that the pipeline is much longer than the numbers you see on the box of individual components and in a regular setup its extremely likely that the best possible figure is not attained, even with the use of game modes. Some processing cannot be disabled and only a small minority of HDTVs have a fast response time even in game mode.

Comparing this to an entirely analog pipeline, which is really a direct, raw input data stream with no postprocessing in the pipeline (it all happens on the console), its a completely different experience. The biggest factor here is that all analog pipelines are more or less equal, while a digital pipeline can vary in numerous ways.

 

[lexluthermiester]

16.67ms is the frame time of a single frame at 60 fps.

Oops. You're right. LOL! I'm a mathematician, should not have made that error. My bad.
Gotta do some retesting to make sure all the math was right. More after the break...

 

[lexluthermiester]

Ok, finished retesting this morning and discovered I'd originally made a mistake in how the fps are calculated. The camera being used was shooting 240fps and I was calculating for something else. So the number were understandably off. The actual response rates are 40ish ms average for the original SNES and 55ish ms for the SNES mini and the same for NES mini. I got curious and tested the same games in the Wii VC and WiiU VC and the results were interesting. The Super Mario World in the Wii VC were around 70ms and the WiiU VC improved to about 65ms. Interesting stuff.

Hopefully, Atari can get their numbers close to these.

 

[WhiteNoise]

You guys are making my head hurt. lol.

 

[therealmeep]

Bump on this guy with all the tech specs and all along with pre-order being open.
Pre-order: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/atari-vcs-game-stream-connect-like-never-before-computers-pc#/
Specs:
Operating System Linux OS based on Ubuntu (Linux Kernel 4.10)
Compatible Systems Linux
Power Low TDP architecture - Less Heat & Noise
Connections HDMI 2.0, 2.4/5GHz Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 5.0, Gigabit Ethernet, 4xUSB 3.0 External Inputs Classic Joystick, Modern Controller, Microphone
Storage 32GB eMMC, external HD, SD card
RAM 4GB DDR4 RAM
Memory 32GB eMMC
CPU Bristol Ridge A1
GPU Radeon R7
HDCP Integration HDCP 2.2

Those APU numbers mean that hopefully its an A12 9800E or an A10 9700, kinda disappointed it's not zen based but meh.
This dude looks like it should be a killer box with the ability to do emulation, and should be a decent htpc if nothing else, not to mention the pretty cool looking design aesthetic.

 

[eidairaman1]

Bump on this guy with all the tech specs and all along with pre-order being open.
Pre-order: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/atari-vcs-game-stream-connect-like-never-before-computers-pc#/
Specs:
Operating System Linux OS based on Ubuntu (Linux Kernel 4.10)
Compatible Systems Linux
Power Low TDP architecture - Less Heat & Noise
Connections HDMI 2.0, 2.4/5GHz Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 5.0, Gigabit Ethernet, 4xUSB 3.0 External Inputs Classic Joystick, Modern Controller, Microphone
Storage 32GB eMMC, external HD, SD card
RAM 4GB DDR4 RAM
Memory 32GB eMMC
CPU Bristol Ridge A1
GPU Radeon R7
HDCP Integration HDCP 2.2

Those APU numbers mean that hopefully its an A12 9800E or an A10 9700, kinda disappointed it's not zen based but meh.
This dude looks like it should be a killer box with the ability to do emulation, and should be a decent htpc if nothing else, not to mention the pretty cool looking design aesthetic.

It was deved before zen. Perhaps if this model is popular enough they will release zen based models...

 

[silentbogo]

Those APU numbers mean that hopefully its an A12 9800E or an A10 9700, kinda disappointed it's not zen based but meh.

At least it's not some leftover Kabini SoCs.
Pretty sure that the desktop A12-9800E is out of question. At most it could be an A12-97x0p or FX-9800p capped at 15W TDP (hint - "Low TDP architecture").
And we (at least the ones who tried Carrizo-based HP Envy laptops), already know how well that performs in games.

 

[biffzinker]

New Intellivision console is coming, more details on October first.
https://www.theinquirer.net/inquire...-the-latest-classic-console-making-a-comeback

 

[therealmeep]

It was deved before zen. Perhaps if this model is popular enough they will release zen based models...

At least on their roadmap they still have a prototype or 2 to go, and this appears to be a fairly standard am4 system (except socket), so I would think that in the next year or 2 specs could change.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Bump

More info has come to light;
https://www.techspot.com/news/74866-atari-vcs-pre-orders-go-live-indiegogo-hit.html

Even though that article references $1.75million, at the time of this posting the fund has raised $2.53million and has 25 days left. That number is ever on the uptick as the project gains backers every few seconds.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/atari-vcs-game-stream-connect-like-never-before-computers-pc#/

Seems like it's a thing after all. Looks cool too! Thinking I prefer the Onyx version, but know of a certain someone(LGR) that will likely dig the wood-grain version. Wonder if he'll get one..
Obligatory YouTube video from the article;

 

[WhiteNoise]

Pretty expensive.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Pretty expensive.

Did you watch the youtube video from the project managers? AMD APU, most likely Jaguar, like the ones in XBO and PS4Pro. And at a base price of $199 for a linux-based system, how is that expensive?

 

[erocker]

It won't be worth a thing unless they can get with publishers/developers to bring games to it that can't be run on an Android device.

 

[lexluthermiester]

It won't be worth a thing unless they can get with publishers/developers to bring games to it that can't be run on an Android device.

Given that it's X86 and Linux based, Steam and GOG will be options, if they do it right.

 

[biffzinker]

The Atari VCS is delayed again until the end of 2019 due to the Excavator? APU being swapped for a Ryzen APU. I'm guessing their going with something similar to the Athlon 200GE?

"This upgrade will translate to better overall performance in a cooler and quieter box — all with minimal impact to our manufacturing processes.

"While additional specifications about the new AMD processor will be announced closer to launch, be assured that the new AMD Ryzen processor is a much better fit for this project in multiple ways and will further enable the Atari VCS to deliver on its promise to be a unique and highly flexible platform for creators."

https://www.theinquirer.net/inquire...-again-in-order-to-upgrade-the-amd-ryzen-chip

 

[lexluthermiester]

The Atari VCS is delayed again until the end of 2019 due to the Excavator? APU being swapped for a Ryzen APU. I'm guessing their going with something similar to the Athlon 200GE?

Seems like a step in the right direction.

 

[metalfiber]

I still got my 2600 and 80+ games from when i was a kid. Plus accessories like rapid fire dongles, wireless controllers, and a trackball controller for Millipede. I'd have to do research on how to hookup the 2600 to a modern day tv to even play the thing again.

I just hope this next Atari isn't some kind of vaporware or anything close to what the Jaguar was.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I just hope this next Atari isn't some kind of vaporware or anything close to what the Jaguar was.

That's been a concern of some people. I think they're taking things carefully because they know everyone is watching and they want to build the Atari name, not damage it. I am cautiously optimistic on this one. A lot of lessons have been learned from the past and it "seems" like Atari is putting their best foot forward on this project.

 

[kastriot]

Atari had it's glory days and that's it, it was fun while it lasted, no more cookies.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Atari had it's glory days and that's it, it was fun while it lasted, no more cookies.

It would seem the crowd-funding disagrees. But hey, if you don't want one, don't buy one.