NVIDIA to Enable DXR Ray Tracing on GTX (10- and 16-series) GPUs in April Drivers Update

[medi01]

If I remember the discussion in the threads correctly the argument was that Vulkan does not need to provide a standard API calls for RT because RT is compute in its core

Right. And that is why we need _NV extension in Vulkan, on the other hand.
Does it make sense to you?

DXR is an open standard, developed with both AMD and nVidia

Citation needed.

 

[notb]

Is AMD's inventory stated as GPU specifically? Just asking?

No, but it's highly probable (hence the word: "likely").
The only other reason would be a huge drop in CPU sales (compared to plans and production).

Here's an interesting graph. Inventory turnover is revenue / inventory.
https://finbox.io/AMD/explorer/inventory_turnover
Nvidia's is actually very stable. It's bad because they replace GPUs often and a big portion of this are Pascal chips made for miners (AFAIR they've confirmed this last year).

 

[londiste]

Right. And that is why we need _NV extension in Vulkan, on the other hand.
Does it make sense to you?

Yes. Operations RT Cores perform are otherwise not exposed for use in Vulkan API.

 

[Vayra86]

This is true, Nvidia even had a slide on that showing Turing without and with the use of RT cores.

 

[nemesis.ie]

@notb I was asking for confirmation as I imagine there is a general inventory ramp for the new CPUs coming in a few months and also possibly the recently released laptop CPU refresh ... and maybe they are newly fabbed 7nm GPU chips for R VII, MI60/50 and possibly new 7nm SKUs that are even more cut down depending on yields.

Pure speculation but if it isn't specific, some or all of that could also be "likely".

@medi01Citation? It's part of MS DirectX, so it would be very odd if they locked out a vendor now after supporting multiple vendors throughout DX's history.

 

[notb]

@notb I was asking for confirmation as I imagine there is a general inventory ramp for the new CPUs coming in a few months and also possibly the recently released laptop CPU refresh ... and maybe they are newly fabbed 7nm GPU chips for R VII, MI60/50 and possibly new 7nm SKUs that are even more cut down depending on yields.

Pure speculation but if it isn't specific, some or all of that could also be "likely".

Well, Nvidia's GPU inventory could also be due to their RTX launch, intensive AI campaign and building stock for cloud gaming service. Right?

It's not like we have a choice of CPU/GPU manufacturers to compare or a mathematical theory that tells us how this should work.

The only thing we know is that Nvidia admitted they have some unsold mining products. And that... they kept a very similar inventory/revenue ratio for years of prosperity - even before hashing replaced gaming as a hobby. It turns out Nvidia's inventory turnover has stayed around 11% since 2011.
And back then AMD had a similar ratio (and at that point they were still pretty OK financially). Now, when AMD is coming back to the race, their inventory starts to grow.

So maybe 11% is the right level for these companies? Maybe we shouldn't worry about Nvidia so much?

 

[Deleted member 177333]

Correct, on their ray tracing rendition, and at what framerates? What we’re talking about here is Nvidia allowing RTX on Pascal which is ill-equipped to play their hardware focused version.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it is a ploy for them to say later “See, we told you. You need our RTX cards to do this right.”

Yep this was my first thought on this - Turing is selling poorly so they are doing everything they can to steer people toward buying them. At the price points they're at though, I'll be waiting. We'll see what the 3000 series is like, or maybe Intel will come out with something competitive.

 

[Super XP]

RT cores are useless because enabling Ray Tracing drops the frame rates to unplayable levels and you don't get a better picture quality.
RTX is a gimmick, nothing more. Here hoping NAVI helps push PC Gaming to the next level in the Mainstream, where it needs a nice push.

 

[notb]

RT cores are useless because enabling Ray Tracing drops the frame rates to unplayable levels and you don't get a better picture quality.
RTX is a gimmick, nothing more. Here hoping NAVI helps push PC Gaming to the next level in the Mainstream, where it needs a nice push.

The only role of RT cores is to make real-time ray tracing feasible slightly earlier than the GPGPU performance would allow.
You should be greatful. RTRT will get some traction.
And when general computation (GPU or CPU) catches up, we'll not only have actual games that utilize it, but also a ton of know-how.

 

[Super XP]

The only role of RT cores is to make real-time ray tracing feasible slightly earlier than the GPGPU performance would allow.
You should be greatful. RTRT will get some traction.
And when general computation (GPU or CPU) catches up, we'll not only have actual games that utilize it, but also a ton of know-how.

Not when Nvidia is selling these cards at a huge premium. They are not worth the $$. This probably explains the large 1.5+ Billion unsold inventory they are battling with since January 2019.

Just in case somebody asks.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Not when Nvidia is selling these cards at a huge premium. They are not worth the $$. This probably explains the large 1.5+ Billion unsold inventory they are battling with since January 2019.

Just in case somebody asks.

This was already responded to and explained last time you posted/trolled it. Most of that is pre Turing stock.

 

[Agentbb007]

It's embarrassing that they keep bringing up Shadow of the Tomb Raider and DXR Ray Tracing. I bought the game but I really doubt I'd play through it again just to see ray tracing enabled. This needed to be implemented at launch.

 

[notb]

Not when Nvidia is selling these cards at a huge premium. They are not worth the $$.

Yeah... now we're taking on the philosophical problem of how much a hobby is worth...

This probably explains the large 1.5+ Billion unsold inventory they are battling with since January 2019.

I believe this has already been discussed thoroughly. The "bad" part of this inventory is almost certainly not Turing stock.
Moreover, the current inventory level is actually appropriate for their revenue - assuming it'll stay so high in the future.

We have no proof that sales of Turing are bad. In fact, contrary to your theories, we have signs that RTX is in fact selling pretty well.

No offense, but you're acting a bit like political trolls on some forums - repeating on and on a fact you've read somewhere and it fits your agenda.

 

[matar]

Why not GTX 970 GTX 980 and 980Ti those have full DX12.1 support why not and same performance And even better then GTX 1060 why nvidia i have a GTX 970 and a GTX 980 I paid big money for them why not support them if pascal is the same as maxwell only the architecture is different with all the same technologies in both there is nothing that pascal has that maxwell doesn’t this is very disappointing.

 

[HwGeek]

Looks like Radeon Rays 3.0 is available now:
And look - FP16 is supported now, so indeed Vega will use it's 2:1 26.88 TFLOPS FP16 for better performance in DXR then old Pascal.
https://www.amd.com/pl/technologies/radeon-prorender-developers

 

[rtwjunkie]

Why not GTX 970 GTX 980 and 980Ti those have full DX12.1 support why not and same performance And even better then GTX 1060 why nvidia i have a GTX 970 and a GTX 980 I paid big money for them why not support them if pascal is the same as maxwell only the architecture is different with all the same technologies in both there is nothing that pascal has that maxwell doesn’t this is very disappointing.

Um, because Pascals at every level were way ahead of Maxwells in performance. You act like Pascals are going to be able to do RTRT with any kind of playability. Thry arent likekely to. S thats why Maxwell wasnt included.

 

[matar]

Um, because Pascals at every level were way ahead of Maxwells in performance. You act like Pascals are going to be able to do RTRT with any kind of playability. Thry arent likekely to. S thats why Maxwell wasnt included.

It’s doesn’t matter if you have a GTX 980 with a 1080p I am 100% sure it shouldn’t have any issues with DXR , Also we should have The choice to enable it or not just like AA. If you feel your gpu is crawling then we turn it off simple.

 

[Xzibit]

This was already responded to and explained last time you posted/trolled it. Most of that is pre Turing stock.

Here you go from Nvidia themselves

Inventory at the end of the quarter was $1.57 billion, up from $1.42 billion in the prior quarter and up from $796 million a year earlier

Thats what they are reporting.

No offense, but you're acting a bit like political trolls on some forums - repeating on and on a fact you've read somewhere and it fits your agenda.

He got those numbers from Nvidia. It was in their financial report.

 

[notb]

He got those numbers from Nvidia. It was in their financial report.

We all know that. But his argument is that this proves bad Turing sales, which is pretty far-fetched.

It would be nice if we had some empirical observations that make this hypothesis more probable. For example: there aren't many RTX users among gaming forum peers, AIBs don't invest in making Turing cards, OEMs don't use them etc. But none of that is happening.

Turing launch looks exactly like every previous successful Nvidia launch did - with 2 major exceptions/circumstances:
1) It happens after the crypto mining collapse, so there are some question marks over Nvidia's financial situation (which can also be said about many other companies - including AMD and few graphics card AIBs)
2) Unlike previous generations, this one puts features before performance, so it's not as easy to evaluate. Obviously, people understand GPU fps graphs better than GPU technology*. And while performance is objective, image realism is not.

(*) which in case RTRT is still surprising. Ray Tracing is a very intuitive technology compared to what GPUs normally do. It's a much better model of what actually happens around us.
And, more importantly, it's been the dominating rendering method for decades.
For the last 2 years quite a few people on this forum have been raving about Zen rendering potential. But the RTX discussions have shown that some of them have no idea how rendering works.
I find this deeply disturbing.

 

[Xzibit]

We all know that. But his argument is that this proves bad Turing sales, which is pretty far-fetched.

It would be nice if we had some empirical observations that make this hypothesis more probable. For example: there aren't many RTX users among gaming forum peers, AIBs don't invest in making Turing cards, OEMs don't use them etc. But none of that is happening.

Turing launch looks exactly like every previous successful Nvidia launch did - with 2 major exceptions/circumstances:
1) It happens after the crypto mining collapse, so there are some question marks over Nvidia's financial situation (which can also be said about many other companies - including AMD and few graphics card AIBs)
2) Unlike previous generations, this one puts features before performance, so it's not as easy to evaluate. Obviously, people understand GPU fps graphs better than GPU technology*. And while performance is objective, image realism is not.

(*) which in case RTRT is still surprising. Ray Tracing is a very intuitive technology compared to what GPUs normally do. It's a much better model of what actually happens around us.
And, more importantly, it's been the dominating rendering method for decades.
For the last 2 years quite a few people on this forum have been raving about Zen rendering potential. But the RTX discussions have shown that some of them have no idea how rendering works.
I find this deeply disturbing.

You could just read more of the Nvidia numbers they put out.

Gaming = Down 46%
Professional Visualization = Down 4%
Datacenter = Down 14%
Automotive = Down 5%
OEM and IP = Down 22%

Just read the commentary.

sales of certain high-end GPUs using our new Turing architecture, including the GeForce RTX 2080 and 2070 were lower than we expected for the launch of a new architecture.

I don't know how much clearer you want it spelled out for you. It's like the whole back and forth, calling people trolls and some didn't even bother reading what Nvidia themselves have said.

 

[notb]

You could just read more of the Nvidia numbers they put out.

I think reading is not enough - a fact easily noticeable in discussions like this one.
One has to understand the numbers as well. ;-)

I don't know how much clearer you want it spelled out for you. It's like the whole back and forth, calling people trolls and some didn't even bother reading what Nvidia themselves have said.

Everything gaming-related you posted is related to mining. Today Nvidia is shipping roughly as many gaming GPUs as they did during 2017 - before the mining bubble.
Do you at least agree that the number of PC gamers hasn't gone up?
That any growth potential is either in increasing GPU price or taking market share from AMD?

Q3 FY2019 was the last period boosted by mining. If criticizing Nvidia and getting likes from medi01 gives you pleasure, you have 3 more quarters to use the "poor sales" argument. Cherish the moment.

 

[rtwjunkie]

You could just read more of the Nvidia numbers they put out.



Just read the commentary.



I don't know how much clearer you want it spelled out for you. It's like the whole back and forth, calling people trolls and some didn't even bother reading what Nvidia themselves have said.

Perhaps you failed to notice their on hand only grew roughly 150 million from the previous quarter. Now look at the huge number of unsold units. Last quarter was when Turing was released.

Therefore, Turing units on hand is less than 10% of all of the stock on hand. So yes, his (Super XP’s) repeated posting that 1.57 billion units on hand is proof that Turing is a failure is trolling.

It’s doesn’t matter if you have a GTX 980 with a 1080p I am 100% sure it shouldn’t have any issues with DXR ,

Then, my friend, you are quite obviously delusional. You should see someone about that before it gets worse.

 

[Xzibit]

Q3 FY2019 was the last period boosted by mining. If criticizing Nvidia and getting likes from medi01 gives you pleasure, you have 3 more quarters to use the "poor sales" argument. Cherish the moment.

As long as i'm not making stuff up. Not like it wasn't reported by Financials or Tech Media at the time.

 

[notb]

As long as i'm not making stuff up. Not like it wasn't reported by Financials or Tech Media at the time.

The numbers you've posted are correct, but the cause you've mentioned is incorrect.
We all know you don't like RTX. You're allowed to have this kind of inclinations.
What I don't undertstand is why you're so actively fighting Nvidia. What's driving you? You want to save us from buying RTX? You want likes from NV haters?

For me you're actually a proof that Turing is a great release.
Performance is great, efficiency is great, new features are really interesting (at least for some), AIB cards are top notch, supply is OK.
Price is slightly higher than usual, but otherwise the cards are excellent.

I love the fact that you have to reach for Nvidia's financial figures, and interpret them in extremely negative way, to make Turing look remotely bad.

 

[Midland Dog]

16 bit precision