Biostar A10N-8800E

[danbert2000]

Nice try, but you've failed. Next?

If you need to borrow $20, I can spot you. You'll be happy when your shitty HTPC can actually load a website within seconds. Only an idiot would refuse to spend $20 to get better support, better performance, an upgrade path, better port selection, a faster M.2 slot, better RAM speeds, more SATA ports, better power delivery, better quality, and the ability to look themselves in the mirror, confident that they aren't a pedantic airhead.

 

[dj-electric]

I get it. Its the secret club of "all society is dead, and i have exactly 88$ for the base of my computer, no matter how infinitely better it gets by adding 20$"

 

[notb]

@notb this is not a piece of special hardware. This is a budget board for budget computers for very, very budget uses. Modern office and web uses by today's standards will be a hard enough job for this. For the crazy premium of 10$ you get so much more as a base for the system, that its just laughable to recommend this to people for cheap computers.

"Office use" is for normal computers, which this one is not. I totally agree this will be a pain for everyday use - especially if it includes browsing (much like 200GE for that matter).
That said, millions of people have Atom-based tablets that offer maybe half of that FX's performance. Clearly, it's a pain one can live with.

Yes, this Biostar could also be seen as a product for budget users in third world countries. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about developed/developing countries, where casual users can afford a normal laptop for everyday use.

Again, this is not a special piece of hardware meant for ultra compact computing for enthusiasts, since it severely lacks the compute power to do so.

I don't see how it lacks compute power. It's faster than Sandy Bridge i3. No one complained in 2011 and many tasks haven't changed.

Calling all the important stuff "irrelevant" is a nice way to argue viability. I might just try it myself to get out of situations.

LOL. Upgrading and tweaking is hardly relevant even in high-end PCs of today. How many PCs are "tweaked"? How many CPUs are replaced without the mobo? 5%?
And here we're talking about a low-end solution. "Set up and forget" scenario.

Some of the most important aspects of affordable PCs is initial power and sustainability. This trash lacks both.

This is not "affordable". It's cheap. That's not the same thing.

 

[BoiseTech]

If you need to borrow $20, I can spot you. You'll be happy when your shitty HTPC can actually load a website within seconds.

I get it. Its the secret club of "all society is dead, and i have exactly 88$ for the base of my computer, no matter how infinitely better it gets by adding 20$"

Like I said, just because YOU wouldn't buy it, doesn't mean SOMEBODY else doesn't find it a good value. That's the problem here...

Also, its winning on 2 fronts now, price AND form factor, since you can't match either at this point. All you've proven is that more money means more performance WHICH HAS BEEN THE CASE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME!

Based on all your logic I'm gunna get an Intel 9980XE because hey, I'm an idiot if I can't spend more money.

 

[dj-electric]

Based on all your logic I'm gunna get an Intel 9980XE because hey, I'm an idiot if I can't spend more money.

You're an idiot if you think that spending an extra 20$ for an infinite amount of advantages is exactly like spending 2000$ on a CPU.

 

[danbert2000]

I get it. Its the secret club of "all society is dead, and i have exactly 88$ for the base of my computer, no matter how infinitely better it gets by adding 20$"

The whole computer has to be at least $210, considering:

$30 for RAM
$30 for case
$30 for PSU
$30 for storage
$90 for shit-tier board and processor

To not put < 10% more in for something based on Ryzen is the height of foolishness.

 

[BoiseTech]

You're an idiot if you think that spending an extra 20$ for an infinite amount of advantages is exactly like spending 2000$ on a CPU.

Actually we're implementing 500 of these in ATM machines, so its an extra $11,000 going up to your solution....

Stop being narrow minded...

The whole computer has to be at least $210, considering:

$30 for RAM
$0 for case
$0 for PSU
$30 for storage
$90 for shit-tier board and processor

To not put < 10% more in for something based on Ryzen is the height of foolishness.

I'm on a fixed budget, I'm reusing parts from my PC I purchased 10 years ago, $20 is a significant increase for me.

Its cool you won't buy it though, everybody has a different circumstance.

 

[danbert2000]

Actually we're implementing 500 of these in ATM machines, so its an extra $11,000 going up to your solution....

Stop being narrow minded...



I'm on a fixed budget, I'm reusing parts from my PC I purchased 10 years ago, $20 is a significant increase for me.

Its cool you won't buy it though, everybody has a different circumstance.

If you're so budget-constrained that $20 makes a big difference, then it makes even more sense to spend it now and keep your computer relevant for longer. Buying this board and processor combo in 2019 is penny-wise and pound-foolish. Buying a board that can take a much better processor is a way to extend that even further when first-gen Ryzens start going for peanuts when Ryzen 3 comes out.

 

[dj-electric]

Actually we're implementing 500 of these in ATM machines

We found the club. Congratz. mass-ATM machine integrators are celebrating around the globe to BIOSTAR's new product. I'm taking back everything i said about it not being of a good value.

 

[notb]

We found the club. Congratz. mass-ATM machine integrators are celebrating around the globe to BIOSTAR's new product. I'm taking back everything i said about it not being of a good value.

You do understand ATMs are a huge market, right?
There are around 38 mln people in my country and 23 thousand ATMs. I don't have data for other countries in Europe, but I bet the ratio is more or less similar.

I just came back from a grocery store downstairs. They have a small case similar to Chieftec IX-03B (it could be that, since it's easy to buy in Poland). mITX, maybe smaller.
They use it to play music and operate CCTV.
Of course I have no idea what's inside, but again: that Biostar would be perfect. According to the latest data I've found, there are 80 thousand small shops in my country, so it's a big market.

If you target this kind of specific niches, it quickly adds up and your "weird product that could be replaced by a much better Ryzen" sells in millions worldwide.
And Biostar is not a major business or gaming brand - they make a living making this kind of specialized products.

You should understand computing a bit more if you like to think about yourself as a computer enthusiast. It's not just gaming. It's not just high end.

 

[Black Haru]

This has been an interesting read. I appreciate all the comments, though I would also appreciate it if we left the personal attacks out of it.

I'll add my opinion to the mix:

As a single unit, such as most of you have been describing, it will almost always make sense to spend a little more and get something more modern and more modular. For most people scrounging up an extra $20 is not a huge deal.

On an enterprise scale, where units will be bought in the hundreds or thousands that $20 turns into thousands, or tens of thousands very quickly. In addition, there are plenty of very specific applications (the ATM example is an excellent one) where the workload is not expected to increase significantly over the lifespan of a part.

In point of fact, most of these specific use cases a product with more tweaking or modularity is a bad thing, as you're introducing variables into a system with a lot of moving parts (meaning your workforce) power draw is the same, a 10 Watt increase in idle power is nothing for a single machine, but spread across 1000 that adds up to significant increase in operating cost. Also, stop equating TDP with actual measured power usage. They are not the same, and depending on the product they may barely be correlated.


Lastly, AMD is not still producing the FX8800P just for Biostar, so hating on Biostar for making a "cheap" product based around it is a little odd to me. Within the parameters of the FX8800P that Biostar was working in the Biostar A10N-8800E is a pretty modern and well rounded product. While, yes swapping between a top tier gaming PC and the A10N-8800E is a drastic change in speed, saying the FX8800P is 50% slower than a 200GE in a desktop browsing environment is an exaggeration.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

I would like to see a 1050ti plugged into it to see how it would perform. I dont think it would bottleneck...at least not much.

 

[Patriot]

Frankly I have doubts about these doing very well in an ATM, It is Cheap, but it is also biostar, not exactly known for longevity.
I would have expected something actually built for those purposes. Sounds like a very short sighted project.

 

[RichF]

Frankly I have doubts about these doing very well in an ATM, It is Cheap, but it is also biostar, not exactly known for longevity.
I would have expected something actually built for those purposes. Sounds like a very short sighted project.

Biostar or not, if I were building an ATM machine I would probably not be using any system that has a CPU fan. Passive cooling is not particularly difficult to do with low power CPUs/systems and avoids the many pitfalls of fans (e.g. moving parts and dust).

It may cost a few more pennies upfront to have passive cooling but it would be worth it in my opinion.

 

[qu4k3r]

...

I mean: there's a very fundamental issue in this discussion.
Do you acknowledge the fact that some computers are bought to do a very particular task, which (by today's standards) may have very low performance needs?
That these computers will do this task for their whole lifetime - with no "upgrading" or "tinkering" on the way? And when they die, they'll be replaced with similarly cheap products?

Because this is a product that targets this kind of demand.

...

Right, a computer of cashier at supermarket, would be a dual core + 2gb ram, and there will be no need to be more powerful than that.-

 

[notb]

Biostar or not, if I were building an ATM machine I would probably not be using any system that has a CPU fan. Passive cooling is not particularly difficult to do with low power CPUs/systems and avoids the many pitfalls of fans (e.g. moving parts and dust).

It may cost a few more pennies upfront to have passive cooling but it would be worth it in my opinion.

It's actually the opposite (surprising post!).
Fans are safe. Passive cooling is risky. Devices around you are full of fans.
That's especially true for those that are kept outside or operate at high temperatures.

Have you ever used an ATM standing in sunshine on a hot day? It's made of metal. It'll be uncomfortably hot when you touch it - upwards of 50*C for sure. How do you want to cool it passively?
ATMs in particular are full of complex mechanical parts for moving and counting notes. There are even fans that cool these, let alone the electronics that control them.

 

[kapone32]

I bought a Ryzen 5 1600 and an AsRock B450M Pro4 for $120 + tax at Microcenter last month. The deal is still going. So yes it is possible. And even if you can't hit that price, you could get a new Athlon and a cheapo AM4 board for a similar price.[/QUOTE]

Must be nice living close to a Micro Center or in the States in general. Below are hyperlinks to Newegg Canada just the 1600is $249.99 and the MB is $94.99. Converted from US to Canadian dollars it would cost $159.02 so you save more than 50% vs those of us stuck in Canada with no access to MIcro Center

https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Produ...1600&cm_re=AMD_r5_1600-_-19-113-435-_-Product

https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Produ...m_re=As_Rock_B450m_pro-_-13-157-871-_-Product

 

[Apocalypsee]

When I looked at gaming performance I thought it was done at 720p low setting but 1080p max setting and still averages 40-50fps in recent-ish games? That is impressive for mobile APU!

 

[gasolina]

i could grab these from taobao around 70$ not that expensive though, i have a spare of heatkiller gtx 680 so i might give it a try next month just league of legends and web browsing . a pair of 4gb ddr4 around 40$ , m2 ssd 1500mb/sec is 26$ , 2.5'' 480gb nectac just 50$ 530-550mb/sec. Also i have one low profile gtx 750ti from galaxy which is pretty tiny to squeeze into a tiny build

 

[Fabio Bologna]

this could make for a snappy pfsense board imo quad-core and a nice 8gb stick of ram and any old 32/64gb ssd on that m.2 and off to the races

 

[kapone32]

When I looked at gaming performance I thought it was done at 720p low setting but 1080p max setting and still averages 40-50fps in recent-ish games? That is impressive for mobile APU!

They used a discrete GPU for testing so the not the APU

 

[Apocalypsee]

They used a discrete GPU for testing so the not the APU

I know, I expected the CPU part to perform worse than it is

 

[notb]

I know, I expected the CPU part to perform worse than it is

Why? It's not a slow CPU. It's just slightly old.

 

[BoiseTech]

Biostar or not, if I were building an ATM machine I would probably not be using any system that has a CPU fan. Passive cooling is not particularly difficult to do with low power CPUs/systems and avoids the many pitfalls of fans (e.g. moving parts and dust).

It may cost a few more pennies upfront to have passive cooling but it would be worth it in my opinion.

ATMs are serviced regularly, there are TONS of moving parts... like the parts that eject cash. The fan is the least of their worries.

I bought a Ryzen 5 1600 and an AsRock B450M Pro4 for $120 + tax at Microcenter last month...So yes it is possible.

$120 != $88

And even if you can't hit that price, you could get a new Athlon and a cheapo AM4 board for a similar price.

That's our point, no you cant.

 

[Ruru]

IMO this product should not exist in 2019. There's nothing of good value what-so-ever here.
There simply is no reason, whatsoever today to pay 90$ for this having far, far sub-par performance to the 50$ Zen-based Athlon 200GE with just about any budget AM4 board.

This budget version of a failing architecture from 5+ years ago should have died, but somehow BIOSTAR just insist of making new products based on it.
Sometimes i really, honestly wonder how does this company exist, having no successful products in just about any category of its catalog. Beyond me.

Exactly. Biostar has pushed out just so insane products like those stupid mining boards with million PCIe slots (when the cryptocurrency craze was already fading), that new FM2+ board not so long ago and other useless hardware.

I'm just guessing they have so much that obsolete crap lying around, so they just try clearing those out.