AMD Ryzen 7 3700X

[Cataclysm_ZA]

Neither Intel nor AMD really cares about gaming that much. Gaming is for a tiny segment of the market.

Gaming is the only growing segment of the PC market currently. Everything else is shrinking, but gaming continues to climb in revenues and profitability which is why more OEMs and ODMs are putting more stock in higher-priced products and RGB. 47% of NVIDIA's revenue comes from GeForce products as of Q1 2019.

Gaming is a trillion-dollar business. It's not a small slice of anything. It's bigger than the global movie industry.

These companies make most of their money selling to businesses and general consumers that don't care about gaming, and iirc most of the profits are in the server cpu market

With desktops in decline, Intel sells more mobile processors than they do desktop SKUs, and 53% of their revenue comes from the Client Computing Group. NVIDIA definitely makes more money selling to business customers for professional uses, and machine learning is taking off for them.

As for the server thing, Intel sells fewer server SKUs than they do desktop SKUs, and that's dwarfed by notebook sales. When they had their shortage hit critical mass, just focusing on server and high-value parts to meet demand still saw them lose large chunks of revenue.

And even among gamers, many if not most gaming consumers probably buy based on which company has better marketing rather than performance charts anyways.

Marketing plays into gamers' inherent bias when picking a GPU, but they're still shopping according to their budget and the level of performance they want. They're still looking at reviews, or asking people who have read reviews what to get.

 

[John Naylor]

I think we have to look at CPUs in a different way ... there's a whole horde of tests being done, but I have to still question the relevance. maybe I'm not looking at it right, so perhaps I can get educated a bit.

Synthetics - If your thing is to go on web sites and post "Post your [insert name of benchmark] scored here threads, pick the CPU that's used on the site you tend to post on. It's not something that has ever entered into our selection process.

Rendering - If rendering is your big application, by all means Ryzen should be your choice. In 26 year's we have done 2 rendering builds intended to take 3D AutoCAD drawings and make renderings out of them. While extremely important to those in the trade, I don't see how it is relevant to the typical "I wanna game, stream, edit videos now and then" crowd.

Game / Software Development - pretty much as above.

Web Browsing - I have never had a slow web browsing experience. Intel has a slight edge here but the differences (0.007 seconds) are invisible to the normal user.

Science and Research - A very small market set here, but if you're in this field, I wouldn't be bothering with $350 - $500 processors.

Office Suites - Having a script complete a series of tasks a hundredth of a second is beyound a user's ability to notice, and if each execution within the script requires user input,. They trade wins here but I see no value to the results.

Photoshop - Intel has an edge here but again so what ? The difference is far too small to base CPU selection on.

Premiere - Here the difference is almost 9% .... and we're talking full seconds here., If ou are doing any significant amount of editing, gotta like Intel here.

Photogrammetry - If you are doing this, then your also doing AutoCAD ... and if you are doing AutoCAD you are using Intel.

Text Recognition - Here with the 3700 sitting between 2 Intels price wise, the choice will be driven by budget, got $500, youd to the 9900k. if less, depending on how much.

Server Workstation - If ya doing any of those things on a regular basis, Ryzen is your CPU

Compression - Ok, I download a utility, I uncompress maybe in a year I'll do another one. So I don't care, if you do this all day, pick Ryzen.

Encryption - Go older Ryzen or Intel 9900k if ya do this thing

Encoding - Again, if this is ya thing, go Ryzen ... if it's MPS's then Intel.

Gaming - No change in rankings here, Intel has the edge but advantage is smaller and nears nothing at hi res.

I didn't really see a lot in Ryzen to date other than the 2700X .... the 3700 is even better. But don't just figure oh there's 15 teats and it wins X of them ... makethe decision on performance that you actually do ona daily basis.... the others aren't helping you.

 

[bug]

I didn't really see a lot in Ryzen to date other than the 2700X .... the 3700 is even better. But don't just figure oh there's 15 teats and it wins X of them ... makethe decision on performance that you actually do ona daily basis.... the others aren't helping you.

Yeah, well, that kind of the whole point of presenting results in various categories.

As I have said before, back in the single core CPUs things were simpler: the faster core was the better pick (well, except Intel clones used to yield competitive integer performance and not so competitive floating point). That held true for dual cores as well. But since we got to 4+ cores, you really need to be paying attention when selecting a CPU.

 

[gupsterg]

@W1zzard thanks great review, I was wondering the section in review where you show clock frequency analysis what is used to load the CPU for various thread count?

 

[W1zzard]

@W1zzard thanks great review, I was wondering the section in review where you show clock frequency analysis what is used to load the CPU for various thread count?

I wrote my own app for that, which lets me control the # of threads and log clocks. The load is just some math calculation floating point, no avx or fma. I feel that represents the typical use case for the majority of people

 

[gupsterg]

Cheers, same app used in say TR2 reviews?

Also wondering cooling used in 3xxx reviews?

 

[arbiter]

So if both chips used the same node wonder what would be performance then. Smaller nodes tend to gain performance and efficiency so as good as this looks if Intel gets down same size node probably gonna take lead.

 

[phanbuey]

is there a 3800x coming? I don't see any reviews of it.

 

[moproblems99]

So if both chips used the same node wonder what would be performance then. Smaller nodes tend to gain performance and efficiency so as good as this looks if Intel gets down same size node probably gonna take lead.

Well, if rumors are true, clock speeds are a problem so any 'performance' gain they got will be out the window.

I don't know why people focus on the node so much. Node has no direct impact on IPC. If you were to transpose what-ever Lake arch onto the same node as Zen 2, it is still going to have the same IPC. The only difference in performance is what is it going to be able to get for clocks. Efficiency may not increase either because Intel is maxing out this uArch and those clocks are destroying efficiency. Zen+ to Zen 2 didn't seem to have much efficiency improvement so the same could hold true for whenever Intel manages to shift nodes.

is there a 3800x coming? I don't see any reviews of it.

I didn't even see any stores with stock.

 

[TheLostSwede]

is there a 3800x coming? I don't see any reviews of it.

AMD didn't sample any parts, same for the 3600/X.

 

[Naito]

I don't get the disappointment surrounding a maximum of ~10% at 720p and ~6% at 1080p disadvantage of FPS vs Intel!? This thing is $150 cheaper (on paper) than a 9900K and offers the same core/thread count and more cache. The same goes for the 3900X - only $20 more than 9900k, 4x the cache and 8 more threads!

And let's not get started on the all the vulnerabilities discovered in Intel architectures as of late...

 

[phanbuey]

I don't get the disappointment surrounding a maximum of ~10% at 720p and ~6% at 1080p disadvantage of FPS vs Intel!? This thing is $150 cheaper (on paper) than a 9900K and offers the same core/thread count and more cache. The same goes for the 3900X - only $20 more than 9900k, 4x the cache and 8 more threads!

And let's not get started on the all the vulnerabilities discovered in Intel architectures as of late...

the hype built it up to match / beat... the fact that it's still behind on a smaller node in games vs ringbus is a dissapoint but not a huge one for the $$..

The real nutkick is at the datacenters/cloud/everywhere else where the security vulnerabilities are a thing and where intel loses in every way on performance.

 

[Crackong]

the hype built it up to match / beat... the fact that it's still behind on a smaller node in games vs ringbus is a dissapoint but not a huge one for the $$..

The real nutkick is at the datacenters/cloud/everywhere else where the security vulnerabilities are a thing and where intel loses in every way on performance.

^That

Server parts don't overclock and have strict power limits.
These Zen2 CPUs with such a high performance/watt ratio is definitely going to hit hard on the server market.
Those 350W+ TDP monstrosities from Intel is nowhere gonna compete with EPYC 2 having 64 cores at 225W TDP.

Server market is the real meat.

 

[JalleR]

I find it crazy how little power the 3700X uses.

Why dont you use the Chart from the TPU Review ?

 

[Xzibit]

Why dont you use the Chart from the TPU Review ?

The board hes using.

Test System "Zen 2"
Motherboard: ASRock X570 Taichi

a test that really stands out! ASRock’s X570 Taichi consumed far more power at full load, and a quick search for the cause revealed that this board, and only this board, was running the 3700X at 1.31V and 4.1GHz under Prime95 small-FFTs. The other boards were running less than 1.2V, at 3.9 to 4.0 GHz in this test.

On average its consuming 30 watts more and 50-60 watts on the stress test.

 

[medi01]

AMD's $330 Ryzen 7 3700X is an 8-core, 16-thread CPU that's clocked high enough to compete with Intel's offerings. Actually, its application performance matches even the more expensive Intel Core i9-9900K. Gaming performance has been increased significantly, too, thanks to the improved architecture and larger caches.

A wish, if I may, for "when there is time to experiment".
Could we see the impact that going with Ryzen CPU has on relative GPU performance? I realize it could be quite a bit of work, but only 2060/2060s/2070/2070s vs V56/V64/5700/5700XT (or even half of those) would do.

 

[RichF]

From the review:

Software: Windows 10 Professional 64-bit
Version 1903 (May 2019 Update)

which means all the security patches for Intel CPUs are applied. There has been a microcode update quite recently but I'm not sure it will change the performance by more than a few percent.

Does it? I read that some security patches for Intel-only vulnerabilities were explicitly not included by default due to Microsoft's decision to sacrifice security for performance on Intel. Users have to manually find and install the patch or patches. This applies also to the disabling of hyperthreading, although perhaps that can be done in BIOS only.

Regardless, running 1903 does not guarantee that all of the Intel security flaws have been patched. Anandtech used 1903 in its review and explicitly said it did not have the fixes enabled for a bunch of the latest Intel-only flaws and their performance regressions.

I have yet to see a single review from any review site that says that it has used all of the security mitigations, let alone one that has shown the data for performance with them and without them.

It seems the industry is content to pretend that these security flaws don't exist and/or don't matter. They do matter and all of these Ryzen reviews should include the data.

 

[moproblems99]

It seems the industry is content to pretend that these security flaws don't exist and/or don't matter. They do matter and all of these Ryzen reviews should include the data.

I agree that these security issues shouldn't be swept under the rug but I disagree that these issues are of particular concern to the average home user at this point. Let's be honest, TPU is largely aimed at the hobviest/enthusiast and makes the most sense to have setups that will mirror that.

I would love to see reviews with all patches on vs all patches off but I also like to see people have a work-life balance.

 

[Octopuss]

Found my new CPU, finally.

I'm curious though, how much do newer steppings affect CPUs (in general)? I am definitely going to wait until until the whole platform matures a little.

 

[dirtyferret]

I think we have to look at CPUs in a different way ... there's a whole horde of tests being done, but I have to still question the relevance. maybe I'm not looking at it right, so perhaps I can get educated a bit.

Synthetics - If your thing is to go on web sites and post "Post your [insert name of benchmark] scored here threads, pick the CPU that's used on the site you tend to post on. It's not something that has ever entered into our selection process.

Rendering - If rendering is your big application, by all means Ryzen should be your choice. In 26 year's we have done 2 rendering builds intended to take 3D AutoCAD drawings and make renderings out of them. While extremely important to those in the trade, I don't see how it is relevant to the typical "I wanna game, stream, edit videos now and then" crowd.

Game / Software Development - pretty much as above.

Web Browsing - I have never had a slow web browsing experience. Intel has a slight edge here but the differences (0.007 seconds) are invisible to the normal user.

Science and Research - A very small market set here, but if you're in this field, I wouldn't be bothering with $350 - $500 processors.

Office Suites - Having a script complete a series of tasks a hundredth of a second is beyound a user's ability to notice, and if each execution within the script requires user input,. They trade wins here but I see no value to the results.

Photoshop - Intel has an edge here but again so what ? The difference is far too small to base CPU selection on.

Premiere - Here the difference is almost 9% .... and we're talking full seconds here., If ou are doing any significant amount of editing, gotta like Intel here.

Photogrammetry - If you are doing this, then your also doing AutoCAD ... and if you are doing AutoCAD you are using Intel.

Text Recognition - Here with the 3700 sitting between 2 Intels price wise, the choice will be driven by budget, got $500, youd to the 9900k. if less, depending on how much.

Server Workstation - If ya doing any of those things on a regular basis, Ryzen is your CPU

Compression - Ok, I download a utility, I uncompress maybe in a year I'll do another one. So I don't care, if you do this all day, pick Ryzen.

Encryption - Go older Ryzen or Intel 9900k if ya do this thing

Encoding - Again, if this is ya thing, go Ryzen ... if it's MPS's then Intel.

Gaming - No change in rankings here, Intel has the edge but advantage is smaller and nears nothing at hi res.

I didn't really see a lot in Ryzen to date other than the 2700X .... the 3700 is even better. But don't just figure oh there's 15 teats and it wins X of them ... makethe decision on performance that you actually do ona daily basis.... the others aren't helping you.

Grandma needs an octacore CPU with 16 threads! Sure she only looks at facebook now and emails Nigerian princes needing quick cash to liberate their million dollar assets but maybe she starts playing PUBG. Maybe she says her old 19" 1600x900 monitor just isn't good enough and she needs a 27" 1440p 144hz monitor with g-sync. Then she says she wants to stream herself playing PUBG while playing PUBG and she needs to download all her MS updates at once that she has held off on for over a year. Then she says she wants to download the entire Lord of the rings Trilogy in 4K while playing and streaming PUBG, while downloading her MS updates, and her AV decides to do a scan.

Are you seriously going to let Grandma do all that and suffer through .1% micro stutter?

 

[TheUn4seen]

Well, it's good that AMD is catching up. As for this particular CPU, it's not the best option for most people. I, for one, care mostly about the realtime tasks - games, daily work. I couldn't care less if a video takes 12 hours instead of 10 to encode, so even the 100$ cheaper 9600k is a better performing option. Even more so when overclocked. The high platform power draw is also a concern for people building SFF systems - there are quite a few good Z390 mini-ITX boards which handle overclocking on par with full ATX ones and very few (if any) comparable boards for AMD.

 

[TheDeeGee]

X570 users started to report unbearable noise from the chipset cooler.

3000 up to 6000 RPM.

Yep, waiting for B550 as X470 seem to have issues getting memory above 2133 MHz.

 

[bug]

Well, it's good that AMD is catching up. As for this particular CPU, it's not the best option for most people. I, for one, care mostly about the realtime tasks - games, daily work. I couldn't care less if a video takes 12 hours instead of 10 to encode, so even the 100$ cheaper 9600k is a better performing option. Even more so when overclocked. The high platform power draw is also a concern for people building SFF systems - there are quite a few good Z390 mini-ITX boards which handle overclocking on par with full ATX ones and very few (if any) comparable boards for AMD.

Eh, let's not exaggerate. This CPU is not for everyone (not one CPU is), but it's a great CPU whether you need it or not.

 

[TheUn4seen]

Eh, let's not exaggerate. This CPU is not for everyone (not one CPU is), but it's a great CPU whether you need it or not.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good CPU. It's just "meh" - not the best performance, not the best value, nothing to write home about. Ryzen is overhyped to hell and back, compared to Bartons and Thortons of the "good ol' days", but in the end they turn out to be just "good enough for some people". So: meh.

 

[bug]

Don't get me wrong, it's a good CPU. It's just "meh" - not the best performance, not the best value, nothing to write home about. Ryzen is overhyped to hell and back, compared to Bartons and Thortons of the "good ol' days", but in the end they turn out to be just "good enough for some people". So: meh.

The Bartons and Thortons of old beat Intel by offering better IPC within a lower power envelope. Zen beats Intel by offering more cores within a lower power envelope. Ok, everybody benefits from higher IPC and not everyone needs a ton of cores, but other than that, the situation is pretty much identical to me.