AMD Ryzen 9 3950X Beats Intel Core i9-10980XE by 24% in 3DMark Physics

[Deleted member 185158]

Who cares about the scores. What's impressive is that both CPUs perform in the same ballpark but the 3950X uses probably like what, half the power ?

Its being compares to a 3950x?
Why not compare the AMD 3970x instead? Maybe only 2/3s the power then?

 

[Vya Domus]

Who cares about the scores. What's impressive is that both CPUs perform in the same ballpark but the 3950X uses probably like what, half the power ? And is available on a cheaper mainstream platform, with itself being the cheaper CPU.

Intel's top of the line HEDT offerings are struggling against AMD's mainstream CPUs. Oh boy. That's a plot twist if I ever saw one, who would have envisioned this say 3 years ago.

Apparently all the rumors were wrong and the base clocks are actually only 3.0GHz, same as preceding generations!

Intel® Core™ i9-10980XE Extreme Edition Processor (24.75M Cache, 3.00 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Core™ i9-10980XE Extreme Edition Processor (24.75M Cache, 3.00 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

ark.intel.com

Makes sense, that 14nm+++ or whatever it is by this point isn't an bottomless well of scalability.

Oh well, almost no one buys an HEDT chip and doesn't overclock, so I don't really care about stock performance.

People totally buy HEDT chips and don't overclock them. Someone can buy a workstation for editing video and have no knowledge whatsoever about overclocking and such, they just got a fast CPU that they use as it is out of the box.

 

[EarthDog]

Apparently all the rumors were wrong and the base clocks are actually only 3.0GHz, same as preceding generations!

Intel® Core™ i9-10980XE Extreme Edition Processor (24.75M Cache, 3.00 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Core™ i9-10980XE Extreme Edition Processor (24.75M Cache, 3.00 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

ark.intel.com

Which means this all makes a lot more sense now. Oh well, almost no one buys an HEDT chip and doesn't overclock, so I don't really care about stock performance.

Oops.. yes. I saw that and completely forgot it existed already at the ark.

So I'd imagine all core boost around 3.6-3.8 ghz will Hope's of 4ghz, lol.

Why not compare the AMD 3970x instead?

because its 32c/64t compared to half that? It's also $1500 compared to $1000. The 3960x is $1000 and 24/48t. Depends on what you are trying to compare by.. core/thread count, HEDT to HEDT, price...etc.

Edit: AMDs HEDT/Threadripper product stack is crazy if the rumors are true. A 64c/128t monster for $2500 at the top.. $1000 24c/48t chip at the bottom. Wowzas! What does zen2 server line look like?!!

Edit2: read a better source..16c/32t at the bottom... no price on that.

 

[Totally]

Fate has certainly dealt you a cruel hand. Forced to survive, possibly for months, with only a mere 2700x. That's not a life anyone should have to live.

Got one better, Just specced out a new personal rig this past weekend only thing keeping me were out of stocks. This morning, while working on a server merely following instructions shit hit the fan in the most monumental way possible, the short take involved the "big red button," Homeland Security and 20 other departments and agencies directly beneath it. Kept being told I should've have known better despite what I was told, but knowing 'it exists' was the extent of my knowledge considering how hush hush things are around here. I never laid eyes on the thing prior to that. So fucked. By the time I left for the day blacked out cars were still coming in and out. I don't even know if I'm going to have a job by the time I go to bed. Sorry didn't rant/vent.

 

[Crackong]

Oh well, almost no one buys an HEDT chip and doesn't overclock.

There are many HEDT users counting on reliability and do not overclock at all.

 

[Solaris17]

There are many HEDT users counting on reliability and do not overclock at all.

And you can count me. I dont OC my 7980xe at all. None of the forum members really attacked me when they came out. I saw some others get the rope though. I certainly didnt buy this chip for its OC potential (doesnt really have any) or its clock rate (2.6 at its base 3ish most days with most cores).

I was one of those crazy users that you know bought a high core count chip for well....its cores.

Im not going to OC and pull a KW from the wall to watch netflix.

 

[Chrispy_]

Infinity fabric beats glue.
72MB cache beats 24.75MB cache
~148W peak PBO power consumption beats an unrealistically-low 165W base consumption before boost.
$750 beats $1000.
PCIe 4.0 beats PCIe 3.0

On top of all that, have Intel closed all of the exposed side-channel attack vulnerabilities in hardware yet, or are they still recycling old architecture with microcode/software patches?

I'm sure there are still going to be plenty of benchmarks where Intel wins, either due to AVX512 vs AVX256, or simply old code that was optimised with an Intel compiler but Team Blue simply has no good cards on the table and a pretty weak hand at the moment.

 

[techguymaxc]

There are many HEDT users counting on reliability and do not overclock at all.

I'd like to see that number quantified. Nonetheless, you'll see that I did not say "no HEDT user runs stock clocks" but rather, "almost no one..." I recognize that some HEDT users do not overclock.

And you can count me. I dont OC my 7980xe at all. None of the forum members really attacked me when they came out. I saw some others get the rope though. I certainly didnt buy this chip for its OC potential (doesnt really have any) or its clock rate (2.6 at its base 3ish most days with most cores).

I was one of those crazy users that you know bought a high core count chip for well....its cores.

Im not going to OC and pull a KW from the wall to watch netflix.

You're free to do with your posessions as you choose. I choose a different path with my CPUs.

I've overclocked nearly every CPU I've owned since my first upgrade from a 486 to an AM586 way back in the mid-90's. Earlier this year I had a 7900x that I was planning to de-lid and see how far I could push it, but an opportunity to replace it with this (already de-lidded) 7960x came up so I took it. All-core turbo on this chip is only 3.6GHz, which is below my personal threshold for single-thread performance of at least 4GHz on modern chips. Ideally, closer to 5GHz but I'm not pushing this chip to 5GHz on ambient cooling. So I applied a moderate overclock to reach this desired level of performance and it is perfectly stable functioning in a system that is both a media server and video production workstation.

Multi-threaded performance of course matters (otherwise why buy HEDT?) but single-thread performance still matters also. For example, the decoder engine for VC1 is still single-threaded, so when someone queues up a VC1 video to play on my media server, I want to know the system can fill up the buffer fast enough to avoid stuttering/buffering. With base clock as low as 3GHz that's not a guarantee. Boost clock at 3.6 gets you closer, but I would rather have an over-engineered solution and not need the extra performance, than vice versa.

 

[Vya Domus]

I ma pretty sure it's the same as with all consumers in general, the people that overclock are always the minority.

 

[Crackong]

I'd like to see that number quantified. Nonetheless, you'll see that I did not say "no HEDT user runs stock clocks" but rather, "almost no one..." I recognize that some HEDT users do not overclock.

You're free to do with your posessions as you choose. I choose a different path with my CPUs.

I've overclocked nearly every CPU I've owned since my first upgrade from a 486 to an AM586 way back in the mid-90's. Earlier this year I had a 7900x that I was planning to de-lid and see how far I could push it, but an opportunity to replace it with this (already de-lidded) 7960x came up so I took it. All-core turbo on this chip is only 3.6GHz, which is below my personal threshold for single-thread performance of at least 4GHz on modern chips. Ideally, closer to 5GHz but I'm not pushing this chip to 5GHz on ambient cooling. So I applied a moderate overclock to reach this desired level of performance and it is perfectly stable functioning in a system that is both a media server and video production workstation.

Multi-threaded performance of course matters (otherwise why buy HEDT?) but single-thread performance still matters also. For example, the decoder engine for VC1 is still single-threaded, so when someone queues up a VC1 video to play on my media server, I want to know the system can fill up the buffer fast enough to avoid stuttering/buffering. With base clock as low as 3GHz that's not a guarantee. Boost clock at 3.6 gets you closer, but I would rather have an over-engineered solution and not need the extra performance, than vice versa.

Homelab / Home server / UAT ENV / Stock trade machines....etc.
There are many applications for a HEDT machine which requires many horse power but reliability and stability is on top of the list.

A 7980xe delided and 4.6GHz all-core OC sounds great.
However I won't trust it for, let say, a 4 hours continuous 3D rendering task, day after day.

When Money is on the table, overclocking is just another uncertainty and should be avoided.

 

[Solaris17]

You're free to do with your posessions as you choose. I choose a different path with my CPUs.

you try to make the post sound like I’m some kind of consumer peasant and then proceed to weird flex by attempting to explain to me how modifications to your CPU presumably make your usage somehow mean something more compared to mine?

Like what? are your delids and OCs supposed to impress me?

7980xe Delid

Thanks to @Xx Tek Tip xX a few months ago for pointing me in the right direction. (I was originally going to do bare die but was advised instead to just to an IHS delid. Its been a bit but finally got around to it. Ambient Temp: 22ºC CPU Clock: 4.5ghz all cores Test: Intel XTU 15min stress...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[techguymaxc]

I ma pretty sure it's the same as with all consumers in general, the people that overclock are always the minority.

I'm not inclined to agree with you. We are talking about a niche product intended for enthusiasts, afterall.

Homelab / Home server / UAT ENV / Stock trade machines....etc.
There are many applications for a HEDT machine which requires many horse power but reliability and stability is on top of the list.

A 7980xe delided and 4.6GHz all-core OC sounds great.
However I won't trust it for, let say, a 4 hours continuous 3D rendering task, day after day.

When Money is on the table, overclocking is just another uncertainty and should be avoided.

That's my point though, no one running a "production" workload *should* be buying HEDT, they should be buying Xeon or Epyc.

Also, there is a stark difference between a mild OC such as the one I am running, and the 4.6GHz all-core OC you cite, wouldn't you say? Surely you don't believe that mild overclocking (from 3.6GHz to 4GHz) is at all analagous to pushing a chip to its limits.

you try to make the post sound like I’m some kind of consumer peasant and then proceed to weird flex by attempting to explain to me how modifications to your CPU presumably make your usage somehow mean something more compared to mine?

Like what? are your delids and OCs supposed to impress me?

7980xe Delid

Thanks to @Xx Tek Tip xX a few months ago for pointing me in the right direction. (I was originally going to do bare die but was advised instead to just to an IHS delid. Its been a bit but finally got around to it. Ambient Temp: 22ºC CPU Clock: 4.5ghz all cores Test: Intel XTU 15min stress...

www.techpowerup.com

I'm not sure why you're responding to me in this way, I'm attempting to engage in a reasoned debate in good faith. It seems that you have taken offense by my statements of opinion, though I have offered no offense.

 

[Solaris17]

I'm not sure why you're responding to me in this way, I'm attempting to engage in a reasoned debate in good faith. It seems that you have taken offense by my statements of opinion, though I have offered no offense.

doesn’t matter really. It was off topic anyway. Thread is about 10980xe score vs the Ryzen that beat it. Not the talking points of HEDT over clocking.

 

[Crackong]

That's my point though, no one running a "production" workload *should* be buying HEDT, they should be buying Xeon or Epyc.

Also, there is a stark difference between a mild OC such as the one I am running, and the 4.6GHz all-core OC you cite, wouldn't you say? Surely you don't believe that mild overclocking (from 3.6GHz to 4GHz) is at all analagous to pushing a chip to its limits.

When you don't need ECC support or heavy VM applications, HEDT is the best choice.

And your "mild" overclocking pushes the power consumption of the CPU to 300W + territory.
Then you need an AIO to calm the CPU down, thus introduces another point of failure to the system.

Don't get me wrong.
OC is fun, I do it in my personal rig.

But when stuff needs to be done quick yet reliably, OC should be out of the equation.

 

[techguymaxc]

doesn’t matter really. It was off topic anyway. Thread is about 10980xe score vs the Ryzen that beat it. Not the talking points of HEDT over clocking.

Overclocking HEDT processors is off-topic for a discussion about an upcoming HEDT processor?

When you don't need ECC support or heavy VM applications, HEDT is the best choice.

And your "mild" overclocking pushes the power consumption of the CPU to 300W + territory.
Then you need an AIO to calm the CPU down, thus introduces another point of failure to the system.

Depends on voltage. I know for a fact my 7960x at just over 1.0V doesn't use 300W for 4GHz all-core workloads in the real-world (video rendering and transcoding tasks). I know because I have a kill-a-watt hooked up and have measured peak (and minimum) power consumption. It's about 220W CPU power consumption for me. Well within the cooling capabilities of my water loop, and the capability of my power supply.

 

[kapone32]

Hi Solaris17 I would love to see this included when you guys do reviews on the 3960X and 3990X.

 

[Vya Domus]

I'm not inclined to agree with you. We are talking about a niche product intended for enthusiasts, afterall.

Enthusiast is a word devoid of any real meaning, you can keep using it but it conveys nothing. And these are products intended for all kinds of people, like content creators who don't know how to and don't want to overclock anything.

 

[techguymaxc]

Enthusiast is a word devoid of any real meaning, you can keep using it but it conveys nothing. And these are products intended for all kinds of people, like content creators who don't know how to and don't want to overclock anything.

You say this based on what, exactly?
Intel disagrees, btw:

intel enthusiast - Google Search

 

[Vya Domus]

You say this based on what, exactly?

Based on the fact that you cannot successfully attach these notions to being an "enthusiasts".

Person 1 spends 10 000$ (HEDT) on on rig to play games.
Person 2 spends 10 000$ (HEDT) on on rig to play games and does stuff like OCing.
Person 3 spends 500$ on on rig to play games.
Person 4 spends 500$ on on rig to play games and does stuff like OCing.

Which of these people are the enthusiasts and why ?

Intel disagrees, btw:

intel enthusiast - Google Search

Not one clue what that's supposed to be.

Did you just ... google "Intel" and "enthusiast" hoping something will show up ?

 

[techguymaxc]

Based on the fact that you cannot successfully attach these notions to being an "enthusiasts".

Person 1 spends 10 000$ (HEDT) on on rig to play games.
Person 2 spends 10 000$ (HEDT) on on rig to play games and does stuff like OCing.
Person 3 spends 500$ on on rig to play games.
Person 4 spends 500$ on on rig to play games and does stuff like OCing.

Which of these people are the enthusiasts and why ?

Enthusiast class products are considered premium products. The price range will vary depending on the product category, geographic market, and competition. None of your examples bother to define these variables so I can't answer your hypothetical.

Not one clue what that's supposed to be.

Did you just ... google "Intel" and "enthusiast" hoping something will show up ?

Can't be bothered to read a list of search results, let alone click on them?

The point is, the company selling these products bothers to associate their products with the term "enthusiast". Who are you to say they're wrong? Clearly they're spending money marketing specific products to a distinct market segment. They might have a slightly better idea about this than you do...

 

[Vya Domus]

Enthusiast class products are considered premium products. The price range will vary depending on the product category, geographic market, and competition. None of your examples bother to define these variables so I can't answer your hypothetical.

I didn't ask what are enthusiast class products, don't beat around the bush. You can't answer because you don't know how, and you just threw another vague term : "premium products". Go ahead, tell me what's a premium product and what isn't, with variables and all that.

The point is, the company selling these products bothers to associate their products with the term "enthusiast". Who are you to say they're wrong? Clearly they're spending money marketing specific products to a distinct market segment. They might have a slightly better idea about this than you do...

Makes me chuckle, as if throwing marketing claims around that don't have any real meaning would be unheard of.

 

[usmc362]

I think that crap about 3950x beating a 10980xe is just that- BULLSHIT. https://www.3dmark.com/fs/20531709

 

[MazeFrame]

Most people are going to OC this star? Good luck with that.

Dedicated 750W PSU for the CPU, a second one for the rest of the system. Easy!

I think that crap about 3950x beating a 10980xe is just that BULLSHIT. https://www.3dmark.com/fs/20531709

To get a better understanding of what is going on, look at servers.
Why look at Rome when we have Matisse at home?
Simple: Rome got all stops pulled. Those things run full tilt vs Intels best offerings (price vs price, you buy two AMD systems for the price of one Intel).

Look at what AMD is doing in servers. Epyc 7452 vs Xeon Gold 6148 for example:
Time in seconds (lower is better):

Or any other Epyc vs Xeon (ignoring prices)
Worst case AMD outperforms best case Intel

And there is also that one use case where AMD made a 127% performance jump over themself:

Sources:

AMD Epyc 7452: Rome-CPU mit 32 Kernen und 2,35 GHz gesichtet

Die Benchmark-Datenbank von Phoronix enthüllt ein erstes Modell der kommenden Epyc-CPU-Familie Rome mit Zen-2-Architektur von AMD.

www.computerbase.de

AMD Rome Second Generation EPYC Review: 2x 64-core Benchmarked

www.anandtech.com

 

[ratirt]

Enthusiast class products are considered premium products. The price range will vary depending on the product category, geographic market, and competition. None of your examples bother to define these variables so I can't answer your hypothetical.



Can't be bothered to read a list of search results, let alone click on them?

The point is, the company selling these products bothers to associate their products with the term "enthusiast". Who are you to say they're wrong? Clearly they're spending money marketing specific products to a distinct market segment. They might have a slightly better idea about this than you do...

Enthusiast class product? OK. You better google what enthusiast mean and who can be an enthusiast. You can be a processor, Intel or AMD or GPU etc. enthusiast and you dont have to overclock. People tend to twist meaning of words or use acronyms and later on they are lost in the meaning. I can be a car enthusiast not owning a car you know. Meaning I'm interested in this, i know a lot about it. What you are suggesting is, if somebody is an enthusiast of PC or processors, means for you he must buy premium (enthusiast processors like you said which is silly to say) processors and OC. It's like enthusiast now comes down to expensive stuff and OC only which is not right. Don't tell people to search and click on links. Saying that enthusiast must OC and buy premium (expensive processors or PC stuff) is just stupid. Somebody twisted meaning of a word, put it on the internet (like companies for marketing) and now you feed people and replicate this malarkey because it's up your alley.

 

[kapone32]

Enthusiast class product? OK. You better google what enthusiast mean and who can be an enthusiast. You can be a processor, Intel or AMD or GPU etc. enthusiast and you dont have to overclock. People tend to twist meaning of words or use acronyms and later on they are lost in the meaning. I can be a car enthusiast not owning a car you know. Meaning I'm interested in this, i know a lot about it. What you are suggesting is, if somebody is an enthusiast of PC or processors, means for you he must buy premium (enthusiast processors like you said which is silly to say) processors and OC. It's like enthusiast now comes down to expensive stuff and OC only which is not right. Don't tell people to search and click on links. Saying that enthusiast must OC and buy premium (expensive processors or PC stuff) is just stupid. Somebody twisted meaning of a word, put it on the internet (like companies for marketing) and now you feed people and replicate this malarkey because it's up your alley.

For me an enthusiast is anyone into a particular product or industry that does things like what we do here and I will list them.

1. Have theoretical conversations about products
2. Help the uninitiated with their problems
3. Have at least something from the current gen (NVME expansion card)
4. Take courses or read literature on technology
5. Get excited for new product releases (TR3, Comet Lake)
6. Be passionate about your purchases
7. Be informed before you buy anything
8. Do your own testing (if you can) on products instead of watching Youtube videos and taking that as gospel
9. Have more equipment than you will ever need
10. Be biased based on experience on what you recommend but not in a negative way.