This is a thing. Liquid cooling, without any chance of mess..

[Ruru]

I think you're just trolling now, but Linus confirmed that the one that will be available for purchase is actually 240 x 30.

Nope. What I meant, was that an AIO (or custom loop's rad) doesn't take space like an air cooler would, since the rad is mounted to the chassis, from out of the way.

 

[eidairaman1]

If it where copper.... It would be half the size and do a better job absorbing heat. Then you wouldnt need it that large.
Aluminum cold plate. Garbage.
2.00 worth of aluminim. Charges 110$.
Cant wait to see people getting ripped off. Good stuff.

Copper block, copper rad please

 

[moproblems99]

The benefits are known. A cooler with the size of a 240 AIO, with the performance of a 360 AIO, yet no moving parts except for the fans.

This has as much chance of out doing a 360mm aio at 240mm as I do of winning the lottery. Ounce for ounce, the water will be better.

 

[lexluthermiester]

LTT is garbage.

I disagree. LTT is very useful and does a lot of work that answers questions and helps even seasoned tech veterans like myself learn new things.

Videos for the unadorned masses (fitting for here I suppose!).

Now you're just being condescending and insulting to a great many people. Please stop.

 

[Assimilator]

If it where copper.... It would be half the size and do a better job absorbing heat. Then you wouldnt need it that large.
Aluminum cold plate. Garbage.
2.00 worth of aluminim. Charges 110$.
Cant wait to see people getting ripped off. Good stuff.

And if were copper, it would be even heavier... *shudder*

 

[lexluthermiester]

Nope. What I meant, was that an AIO (or custom loop's rad) doesn't take space like an air cooler would, since the rad is mounted to the chassis, from out of the way.

While that is a good point, this new take on cooling requires no maintainance, and like vapor chambers and heatpipes will last longer than the PC component it's mounted to. This is one of the key points. The final product will be more refined and retail ready.

 

[EarthDog]

I disagree. LTT is very useful and does a lot of work that answers questions and helps even seasoned tech veterans like myself learn new things.

Now you're just being condescending and insulting to a great many people. Please stop.

Disagree all you want. You're entitled to an opinion.

To he fair, it isnt just tpu. Any large a active forum has a presence of unadorned users. It is those who sign up to ask questions who do not know the answers (and some who try to answer and fail). Some forums have more than others, this being one of them. Like linus, tpu is a good place to get the basics and your fair share of clickbait. Good for the unadorned. Dont take it personally or be sensitive about it.

 

[Ruru]

While that is a good point, this new take on cooling requires no maintainance, and like vapor chambers and heatpipes will last longer than the PC component it's mounted to. This is one of the key points. The final product will be more refined and retail ready.

Yeah, air cooling's best thing is that it requires no maintenance except cleaning the most dust from time to time.

AIOs are kinda meh and custom loop are still for us enthusiasts

 

[Deleted member 185158]

And if were copper, it would be even heavier... *shudder*

It's not that it's heavy, it's the distance the weight resides from the motherboard mount.
And with copper, it would be much smaller and look like any old tower cooler with pipes that loop instead of being cut off.

 

[SL2]

This has as much chance of out doing a 360mm aio at 240mm as I do of winning the lottery. Ounce for ounce, the water will be better.

You: "I will question you by claiming the opposite, without any proof."

Also, this constant comparing to custom water is weird.

Imagine the GTX 1650 being launched and people would go "NO WAI, I'll keep my 2080 TI"

 

[moproblems99]

You: "I will question you by claiming the opposite, without any proof."

Also, this constant comparing to custom water is weird.

Imagine the GTX 1650 being launched and people would go "NO WAI, I'll keep my 2080 TI"

Yes, because I can easily acquire one to gather my proof. Also, I said nothing of customer water did I?

EDIT: I'd also get more useful information out of the local junior high science news letter than LTT so I don't think there is proof for either side.

Yeah, air cooling's best thing is that it requires no maintenance except cleaning the most dust from time to time.

I don't have any maintenance on my loop except every 1 to 2 years when I change the water and clean the block. Hell, many people upgrade their systems more often than that.

 

[delshay]

Nowadays, even RAM (B-die) is also sensitive to ambient temperatures and start flipping bits above 45C.

Now that's interesting. Memory modules are tested in a chamber & must past a specific temperature, normally around 65c. You should not be flipping bits @45c. If you are, then you have a faulty memory module, probably cause by pushing too much voltage though them.

 

[SL2]

Yes, because I can easily acquire one to gather my proof.

Well, even if I could get one, I can't predict the result before I've tested it. You can do that I guess.

Also, I said nothing of customer water did I?

I think you know the answer to that.

I can't make a new separate comment without it getting merged with the last one, if I was the one who made that last comment. It had nothing to do with you.

 

[kapone32]

Yeah, air cooling's best thing is that it requires no maintenance except cleaning the most dust from time to time.

AIOs are kinda meh and custom loop are still for us enthusiasts

AIOs can get super dusty too especially if you are running a push/pull.

 

[EarthDog]

AIOs can get super dusty too especially if you are running a push/pull.

...and that is their (AIOs) only maintenance as well. You literally cant do any more to them than air as most are sealed units, implied by the name. When it borks, its RMA or garbage time.

 

[kapone32]

...and that is their (AIOs) only maintenance as well. You literally cant do any more to them than air as most are sealed units, implied by the name. When it borks, its RMA or garbage time.

That is why I like the Alphacool Eisbaer AIOs. They are more like a custom loop than an AIO.

 

[EarthDog]

That is why I like the Alphacool Eisbaer AIOs. They are more like a custom loop than an AIO.

MEH, go fully custom or go home is my motto.

 

[kapone32]

On that note this is what I am looking at (in my cart saved for later) right now

Bykski CPU Liquid Cooler CPU Waterblocks Watercooling Block CPU Water Liquid Cooling Block for PC Intel 115X X99 X299 AMD AM4 AM3+ AM3 AM2+ AM2 RYZER 5V RGB LED (for AMD, Silver) : Amazon.ca: Electronics

Bykski CPU Liquid Cooler CPU Waterblocks Watercooling Block CPU Water Liquid Cooling Block for PC Intel 115X X99 X299 AMD AM4 AM3+ AM3 AM2+ AM2 RYZER 5V RGB LED (for AMD, Silver) : Amazon.ca: Electronics

www.amazon.ca

Alphacool 13297 Eisstation DC-Ultra incl. Alphacool DC-LT 2600 Ultra Pump Water Cooling Reservoirs : Amazon.ca: Industrial & Scientific

Alphacool 13297 Eisstation DC-Ultra incl. Alphacool DC-LT 2600 Ultra Pump Water Cooling Reservoirs : Amazon.ca: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.ca

 

[Zach_01]

Come on guys...
As already said by others, this is a prototype, it is going to reduce in size, and replace the ALU with copper.
Its the actual mechanism of cooling that has been demonstrated here and not the final product.

Complaining or moaning so much about size/weight is totally unecessary at this point as these factors are going to change...
The cooling factor could also change after size/weight/materials change... we will (just) see, if ever made to market tho.

Dont be so much of contoversialists/conscientious objectors to anything new or wierd at first glance... Dismissing completely a new idea so easily without even having a final product at hand or reviews. Tech people should be more open minded, while thinking with scepticism (obviously needed also)
If this turns out to be a successful product (time will tell) at some cases it will render AIOs obsolete. Same/better cooling, less cost, and no moving parts failing that require a whole cooling system change (see AIO pump).

Im not even refering to custom water while this is on totaly another league.
And yes the title of the video about dead water cooling was misleading and a clicbait... typical LLT (still I watch some of LLT videos, knowing what could turn out to be)

 

[xtreemchaos]

the whole point of a forum is to debate if everybody just said " great I love it" well it would be pointless or one point depending on how you look at it. well im just saying but im completely mad and I wouldn't hear a word I said ..

 

[Ruru]

That is why I like the Alphacool Eisbaer AIOs. They are more like a custom loop than an AIO.

I had one before switching to custom

 

[Vayra86]

There is a reason why serious water cooling enthusiasts exhaust heat from radiators outside the system case.

Yes because they get anal about every last C, even beyond the point of usefulness.

The other 95% of PC users don't

Why do you think the AIO is such a popular product, and even gets used over a simple heatsink that costs less and performs just as well? People want no hassle, they want cool stuff, and they want it to work well. An AIO can sometimes get a minimal advantage over air, never mind the fact is slowly falls apart over time. So people buy an AIO. Closed loop may be better in temps, but its worse in every other way: cost, maintenance, prone to failure and hard to install.

People want to say they are watercooling because its 'better'.. just like 32 GB is better than 16, even lacking practical use.

This product seems to marry advantages of AIO and heatsink in a pretty elegant way. No hassle. Good temps. And remember Apple. It doesn't matter you recreate something that already existed. What matters is how you market it, and how easy you make it.

 

[Zach_01]

the whole point of a forum is to debate if everybody just said " great I love it" well it would be pointless or one point depending on how you look at it. well im just saying but im completely mad and I wouldn't hear a word I said ..

No its not the point of a forum to say everyone "great I love it" but... its not to say "oh, its suck and its not going to work and this is better with X2~3 the cost and blah blah..." either. While its not a final product...

Anyway my thoughts on it are on post #69(kinky...) and i dont wish to do circles...
cheers

 

[John Naylor]

There is a reason why serious water cooling enthusiasts exhaust heat from radiators outside the system case.

No... that's the reason misinformed system builders exhaust air outside their case.

1st law of water cooling - Don't mix metals
2nd law of water cooling - Rad fans always blow in

Speaking from the perspective of having taught college level fluids and thermodynamics, and have been a consulting engineer in the field for 40+ years, simple "arithmetic" is all that is needed here. Let's "Do the math":

Assumed Temps
Ambient Air = 23C
Case Interior Air = 28C
Coolant Temperature = 33C

Cooling Capacity is proportional to Delta T:

Using Ambient Air @ 23C .... Delta T = (33- 23) = 10C
Using Interior Case Air @ 28C .... Delta T = (28- 23) = 5C

Clearly, with those temps, radiator cooling with ambient air is twice as effective as interior air, you simply can't argue with the math. .... which is also why engine cooling in emergency generator sets use ambient air for radiator cooling. Change the numbers to whatever you want, but the interior case air will ALWAYS be hotter than ambient case air.

The argument I get about that is "what about other components" ... well if you are doing custom cooling, your GFX cards are water cooled too. Three questions:

1. What component inside your PC are you concerned about ? I have yet to see a product manual that warns me about the product being harmed or performance impacted by 28C. Looking at my temperature display

Ambient Air = 22.5 / Interior case Air = 23.9
Rad 1 in = 26.1 / rad 1 out = 26.9
Rad 2 in 24.8 / Rad 2 Out 25.4

Interior Case Air (Stress test) has never topped + 2.9 - 3.0 over ambient with a Delta T of 8.4C

You have your CPU and possibly GPU water cooled because a) it would exceed desired thermal limits at your OC or b) to reduce noise. What other PC components are in this situation ?

2. If you are concerned about it still, why aren't you using special methods to cool it ? No MoBo water block ? ... RAM blocks ? ... SSD Block why not ? Answer to rhetorical question ... because if you have the room for a custom loop, nothing is affected by interior case temps.

3. Why to the people who get paid to design, market and support PC Water cooling components write this in their manuals ?

"For best cooling performance, we recommend mounting the fans as an air intake to your PC."

The corollary of this is (since we only have 2 options here) :

"For worst cooling performance, we recommend mounting the fans as an air exhaust from your PC."

Here's what we use to evaluate cooling performance:

(3) x 140mm x 45mm Top radiator
(2) x 140mm x 60mm Top radiator
(10) Radiator fans (Up to) 0 - 1250 rpm
(6) case fans (Up to) as above
Twin 35x2 Variable Speed 52 watt Pump / w/ heat sink and fan (0 - 4500 rpm)
(4) Thermal Sensors (in and out of each rad) accurate to 0.1C
(2) Thermal Sensors (ambient and inside case air) accurate to 0.1C
(3) fan PCBs to control each set of rad fans and case fans independently
(6) channel temperature display (0.1C accuracy)
(1) Chauvet Fog Machine
(1) EK CPU Waterblock
(2) EK GPU Water Blocks
(1) MoBo Water Block

Another fail to this logic is that few PC cases provide for enough fan mounts to maintain proper air balance. Everyone agrees that intakes are generally front and bottom and exhaust is rear ... why is the rear fan never an intake ? Because that's where our 250 watt GFX card(s) and 750 watt PSU exhaust their hot exhaust and you don't want to suck that back in. Again, you don't want to suck that back in. So lets look at that:

Assume typical /popular Case Fan Mounts:

Top (2)
Front (2)
Rear (1)

Assumed air inlet restriction from moderately dirty dust filters = 20%
Fan CFM for all fans = 1.00 EF (equivalent fan)
Fan CFM for intake fans = 1 EF - 20% = 0.80 EF (equivalent fan)

Scenario A - Top fans on AIO as exhausts
Top (2) - Exhaust from AIO = 2 x 1.00 EF = 2.00
Front (2) - Intake thru Air Filters = 2 x 0.80 EF = 1.60 EFF
Rear (1) i Exhaust Fan = 1 x 1.00 EF = 1.00 EF

So we have 1.60 EF coming in and 3.00 EF going out leaving a deficit of 1.4 EF. Since the case doesn't implode, air must be getting in somewhere ... and where is the path of least resistance ? ... or where are the largest openings in your case ? They are the rear grille and vented slot covers ... what do we know about the air in back of the case ? ... the place between case and wall that your exhaust card and PSU push the hot air to ... yes, that's where all the hot exhaust from your 750 watt PSU and 250 watt GFX card(s) is going.

You can test this, as we do, with a very small investment ... pick up a fog machine cheap from Amazon for $35 and point the exhaust at the back of your case with this set up ... the case interior is now full of fog. Look for the logic here .... "In order to cool our 150 watt 9900K with an AIO, one has to use air preheated by a 300 watt MSI 2080 Ti and a 750 watt PSU ... that just doesn't make sense. It's like trying to cool you restaurant seating area with exhaust from your kitchen.

Scenario B - Top fans on AIO as intakes
Top (2) - Intake from AIO = 2 x 1.00 EF = 2.00
Front (2) - Intake thru Air Filters = 2 x 0.80 EF = 1.60 EFF
Rear (1) i Exhaust Fan = 1 x 1.00 EF = 1.00 EF

Here we have 3.60 EF coming in and 1.00 EF going out .... that's 2.6 worth of EF going out thru the rear case grill and vented slot covers. At that rate, the case is turning air over > twice per second ... no hot exhaust being recycled. There is a mindset in PC cooling that there is an actual need to even have both intake and exhaust fans. Where does this mindset come from ? ... you travel in a car ... fans blow air into the interior ... how many exhaust fans ya got ? You have an fan in engine compartment it pulls air across the radiator ... how many exhaust fans ? Kitchen Exhaust fan ... got any intakes for that ? Attic fan ... how many for that ? In a bedroom if ya wanna cool it down and no AC, at night putting a fan in one window will cool the room quickly with a 2nd window open .... why don't ya need a 2nd fan ? Why doesn't it matter whether then fan is intake or exhaust ?

Ya can only roll y eyes at the youtubers who have tested this and come to false conclusion because they test with the side panel off and / or have the case in it's typical position on or under desk against a wall. ... in which case they are not using interior case air but ambient air.

No other enclosure cooling is designed this way ... power plants, power panels, gen sets ... When we design a restaurant kitchen we collect the hot air and smoke with a hood and exhaust the air ... there are no intake fans ... we do have intake vents , often with heat exchangers ... but the negative pressure created by the fan sucks fresh air in thru the intake vent. Ever walk into a deli or pizzeria and the door is hard to open but once you "break the seal", it's fine ... thats a poorly designed air system ... exhast fan and no intake vent. Those holes in your rear case grille are an important part of your case's cooling design ... don't let them go to waste. Yes, we were all taught in 8th grade that hot air rises ... but not when you sitting in the kitchen or living room below a ceiling fan.

And that's the problem w/ Linus' review.... as usual, I don't see that Linus has made his point ...

1. Performance is gimped by having no access to cooler air source...outside ambient air.
2. They are using Delta fans ... are we talking 3,000 rpm, 4,000 ... 7,160 rpm fans ?
3. The air coolers he compared them to are using 1200 - 1500 rpm fans / Phoenix is up to 2,200 .... test is a fail, not apples and apples.
4. Unit 1/3 the size w/ Copper 5 - 10 degrees ... that's "Duhlusional"


As to apples and apples testing ... yes the Noctua does match or beat 360mm rads .... And the Scyth Fuma beats the NocPut them at the same fan rpm / noise level and.... (23:45 mark)

https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYKdKVxbnp8

Noctua NH-D15 - 70C OC Load / 31C OC idle / 33 dbA
Thermaltake BigWater 3 - 70C OC Load / 33C OC idle / 40 dbA

The Noc ties under load, 2C cooler at idle and the AIO is 1.62 times as loud.

https://tpucdn.com/review/scythe-fuma-2-dual-tower-cpu-cooler/images/temp_oc_aida64.png

Fuma 2 @ cools better than (2) 360,, AIOs, ties another and loses only Swiftech all copper 360 by 2C while the later is 1.62 times louder and the EK by 5C which is 2.15 times louder

 

[moproblems99]

Closed loop may be better in temps, but its worse in every other way: cost, maintenance, prone to failure and hard to install.

The only things you got right there are cost and installation. My loop gets pulled apart every two years, other than that, it gets a drop of biocide every 6 months and dusting just like every other cooler.

They have more points of failure but barbs and clamps are not likely to fail. If you start getting into compression fittings and quick connects then yeah, you could almost say prone. Anyone that puts even basic effort into their loop will have no more problems and maintenance than aios or air.