Global Warming & Climate Change Discussion

[Easy Rhino]

Yes but not since we have started recording them and in specifics to Sandy. I learned in Geography that due to it's size the Atlantic should never create a hurricane with a diameter of more than 300 miles. We can wax back and forth about the details. One thing I can say with confidence is the weather is much more erratic today than anytime I can remember. Just in the past 6 days we have had 14 C one day -15 the very next day and then 50 MM of rain last weekend and 15 cm of snow this weekend.

The earth has been around for what a few billion years? You are going on maybe 60 years of actual good usable data.

 

[kapone32]

The earth has been around for what a few billion years? You are going on maybe 60 years of actual good usable data.

Of course that is also true but we cannot discount that there is something screwy going on with our weather.

 

[dorsetknob]

GM crops are usualy engineered so the crop that grows is infertile.
No growing crops for next years seed you gotta buy again from GM Supplier.
Higher CO2 is Good for crop growth ( up to a certin limit).

FRESH Water Managment Should be a Priorty for Mankind ( its already a War Crises flash point some places).

 

[Tatty_Two]

The earth has been around for what a few billion years? You are going on maybe 60 years of actual good usable data.

Yep, but in that very large period of time how many occasions of "near" total destruction of land life has occurred? It's great the planet has survived for obvious reasons but it does not help mankind in the future. As for now, I personally am not very "Green", however I believe people when they tell me they have been travelling to the Artic for 30 years and the Ice pack has shrunk by 25 miles plus already in that time, I am just thankful I don't live near a coast.

 

[Papahyooie]

I learned in Geography that due to it's size the Atlantic should never create a hurricane with a diameter of more than 300 miles.

Sounds like you shouldn't listen to the person who told you that anymore.

 

[kapone32]

Totally agreed

Sounds like you shouldn't listen to the person who told you that anymore.

Well the only hurricane that has defeated that theory has been Sandy and it was in the 90s that I was in University so......

 

[Steevo]

Nuclear base load with breeder reactors until we either figure out fusion or some other better energy source, and we might as well start now as the uranium is decaying and the ability to reach other solar systems and even other planets in our own solar system relies on the ability to enrich uranium into plutonium.

We can't stop this train, we can do better but it has to be truly sustainable, not solar roadways or other BS ideas that averagely smart people sell to the masses of uneducated but useful idiots.

 

[rruff]

During the dinosaurs, eg. some 100 million years ago, Earth was healthier, full of life and CO2 levels were approximately 1800 ppm - more than 4 times current level while the average global temperature was about 3-4 °C higher than today. Oxygen levels were also slightly higher. So...

Temperatures were up to 14C higher. That's a lot...

 

[sneekypeet]

I am going to ask that we stay on topic and not get too excited about the word science, or who believes what is proper. Play nice or exit the thread please.

Just in case some of you have forgotten..... https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/forum-guidelines.197329/

 

[Grog6]

I know the diff between weather and climate, but the Tennessee I live in now is not at all like the TN I lived in 50 years ago.

It's 60 degrees outside, been that way all month; we've seen 30 degrees twice this winter for about three days each time.

I've only had to scrape a windshield 3 times this winter.

It's supposed to get cold next week, but it's one 35 degree day, then back to the 50's.

In the 60's, we had cold winters, and 4 distinct seasons; now we have summer, and fall.
The only difference in the Spring is that it gets green, in the exact reverse order as the fall.
The weather is the same; rain, and warm days, cool nights.

We would get 5-6 major snowfalls, with about 6" of snow to sled on.
Occasionally we'd get a good one, and we could sled for a few days.

I haven't seen one of those since the 80's, with one outlier in the 17" snow we had in 1993.
I understand that was the most since 1963, when we got snow like that regularly.

I've seen snow once this year, with ~1" lasting ~10 hours.
It didn't stick to the roads.

Say what you will, but climate change is here, and the high and rising CO2 levels and methane from melting permafrost are driving it.

At this point, we're along for the ride; there's nothing we're going to do about it now.
The time to act was 20-30 years ago.

 

[Papahyooie]

I know the diff between weather and climate, but the Tennessee I live in now is not at all like the TN I lived in 50 years ago.

It's 60 degrees outside, been that way all month; we've seen 30 degrees twice this winter for about three days each time.

I've only had to scrape a windshield 3 times this winter.

It's supposed to get cold next week, but it's one 35 degree day, then back to the 50's.

In the 60's, we had cold winters, and 4 distinct seasons; now we have summer, and fall.
The only difference in the Spring is that it gets green, in the exact reverse order as the fall.
The weather is the same; rain, and warm days, cool nights.

We would get 5-6 major snowfalls, with about 6" of snow to sled on.
Occasionally we'd get a good one, and we could sled for a few days.

I haven't seen one of those since the 80's, with one outlier in the 17" snow we had in 1993.
I understand that was the most since 1963, when we got snow like that regularly.

I've seen snow once this year, with ~1" lasting ~10 hours.
It didn't stick to the roads.

Say what you will, but climate change is here, and the high and rising CO2 levels and methane from melting permafrost are driving it.

At this point, we're along for the ride; there's nothing we're going to do about it now.
The time to act was 20-30 years ago.

Few people will argue that the climate is not changing, and most people agree it is. The points of contention are "Is it permanent, or cyclical" and "Is it human caused or natural."

 

[rruff]

Few people will argue that the climate is not changing, and most people agree it is. The points of contention are "Is it permanent, or cyclical" and "Is it human caused or natural."

Another point of contention is "why should we care"?

For the last 4M years or so the earth has been cooler than now, with periodic ice ages. The ice ages have a devastating effect on life... over most of the planet it is simply impossible for man or beast to live. And we are due for another one!

If it were possible for humans to easily influence global temperature, and we could get together and make a rational decision on the matter, then "warmer than natural cycle for the last 4M years" would be the smart choice. Our man made greenhouse gases are doing this already. We would need to expend a great deal of effort to *stop* this from happening.

The only way this would be a bad thing vs the natural cycle (which should be another ice age in the next few thousand years) is if the natural cycle had suddenly reversed for some unknown reason, and we were adding higher temperatures when they were already heading up. But this hasn't been the case for the last 50M years, and it's extremely unlikely that it's happening now. Yes, there is a lot of uncertainty in how much the temperature will be affected (short and much longer term), and what will happen to the global climate, sea level, crops, etc. But overall a warmer temperature should be more supportive of life. And compared to having another ice age, which we know would suck really hard for most of the planet, these are trivial matters.

 

[Aquinus]

"Is it human caused or natural."

That one is probably both.

Look on the bright side, we'll at least get to find out what happens in the short term and we'll all likely already be dead by the time we find out who was actually right.

 

[Grog6]

Depending on where you live, you may care a great deal.

In another 20 years, the southern US will be too hot to go outside many days of the summer; Southern Americans aren't used to equatorial 110 degree weather with 90% humidity.

Here we had 90+ degree days with high humidity where it was uncomfortable to be in the pool, lol.

If you live up north, the next couple of decades will introduce you to spring suntanning.

 

[Aquinus]

If you live up north, the next couple of decades will introduce you to spring suntanning.

I'll take an extended growing season.

 

[R0H1T]

I guess devastating loss of flora & fauna, like the ones we see in Australia doesn't count? Even if we ignore the very real threats of global warming, the human outreach to the most secluded parts of this earth has caused many a times this irreversible damage ~ like that bird called dodo

The point I'm is that humans have had IMO a net negative impact on the earth & the rest of it's creatures, especially in the last few decades & while some of it is unavoidable, the vast majority of it is isn't. Ignorance is one such point & political bickering another, oh yeah oil companies have a lot more $ to throw shade at researchers!

 

[rruff]

The point I'm is that humans have had IMO a net negative impact on the earth & the rest of it's creatures

Welcome to reality. Homo sapiens have been a scourge for 50,000 years or so... to each other and anything in their way. What do you think happened to Neanderthals and other hominid species? It's nice to entertain higher ideals, but when push comes to shove, the humans that survived have aggressively eliminated any rivals or threats. They are never satisfied and always want more. We are descended from thousands of generations of this. Tendencies toward empathy and cooperation on anything more than a tribal level has been eliminated from our DNA. It can be a big tribe, but it can't be everyone.

That's irrelevant when it comes to human caused climate change though... since the effects of warming are likely a net positive overall. A fortunate accident for life on the planet.

 

[Schmuckley]

Odd how they never include grass in the list of plants that absorb CO2.

I wonder why that is? LMAO!

IMO, man thinking he has an effect on the weather is Delusions of Grandeur.

 

[rruff]

Odd how they never include grass in the list of plants that absorb CO2.

This plant will save us...

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Odd how they never include grass in the list of plants that absorb CO2.

I wonder why that is? LMAO!

IMO, man thinking he has an effect on the weather is Delusions of Grandeur.

Because it doesn't really sequester carbon. Most of what it takes in is directly released again either through decomposition of clippings or as part of the annual cycle.

The oceans, by far, are the largest store of carbon through increasing acidity.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Antarctic base records hottest temperature ever

A research base in the Antarctic has recorded the hottest temperature ever for the continent amid rising concern about global warming that has caused an increase in the melting of ice sheets around the south pole.

www.reuters.com

...it's winter in Antarctica...

 

[mtcn77]

Another point of contention is "why should we care"?

For the last 4M years or so the earth has been cooler than now, with periodic ice ages. The ice ages have a devastating effect on life... over most of the planet it is simply impossible for man or beast to live. And we are due for another one!

If it were possible for humans to easily influence global temperature, and we could get together and make a rational decision on the matter, then "warmer than natural cycle for the last 4M years" would be the smart choice. Our man made greenhouse gases are doing this already. We would need to expend a great deal of effort to *stop* this from happening.

The only way this would be a bad thing vs the natural cycle (which should be another ice age in the next few thousand years) is if the natural cycle had suddenly reversed for some unknown reason, and we were adding higher temperatures when they were already heading up. But this hasn't been the case for the last 50M years, and it's extremely unlikely that it's happening now. Yes, there is a lot of uncertainty in how much the temperature will be affected (short and much longer term), and what will happen to the global climate, sea level, crops, etc. But overall a warmer temperature should be more supportive of life. And compared to having another ice age, which we know would suck really hard for most of the planet, these are trivial matters.

Emphasis on point. It is only devastating for the microscopic biome in the soil that is affected from persistent >20°C temperatures. The soil just doesn't regenerate above that level which dries up waterbeds and causes erosion rather than water constitution from rainfall.
Once the dunes arrive, nothing the organics could do stops them. Though, the chinese had posted some success in holding back the sweeping sands. Let's hope they can keep rising temperatures from causing too much water loss, too.
There is tremendous potential in fertilising oceans however when you seed iron, the question is, it precipitates down on the ocean floor - how do we harvest it back?

 

[Grog6]

The iron can be in the form of soil; the soil here is a red clay with a high iron content, and doesn't grow stuff well without fertilizer and a lot of organic material.

We could spare a few cubic miles.

 

[mtcn77]

The iron can be in the form of soil; the soil here is a red clay with a high iron content, and doesn't grow stuff well without fertilizer and a lot of organic material.

We could spare a few cubic miles.

I'm sure you are attune with the logistical proposition of dumping steel grade soil each time for a one-time algal bloom. The biology as such is not fortuituous unless giant mammals or crustaceans eat them and pass it on to saprophitic fungi. It is funny we will need to revive dead ecosystems to ingratiate ourselves with nature's good deeds.

 

[Sir cheese]

Wouldn't it be better to say we have to stop emitting greenhouse gases, so in case it's true we avoid the worst ?