NVIDIA Responds to Criticism Surrounding the RTX 3080 Launch

[Tomorrow]

Think about something genius: if the top end gpu is freaking expensive, the rest of the lower end ALSO ARE. So it is actually fine for people to be sad about THIS one gpu being as expensive as it is. If the top end was for example 600 dollars i could get for 250 something sooo much better than now that the top end is $1500.

I have two examples for you. 8800 Ultra. Released 13 years ago. With inflation it would cost over $1000 today.
Also: Titan Z. 6 years ago. Cost $3000 without accounting for inflation.

There have always been expensive cards at the very top. It's not a recent trend.

 

[ratirt]

I have two examples for you. 8800 Ultra. Released 13 years ago. With inflation it would cost over $1000 today.
Also: Titan Z. 6 years ago. Cost $3000 without accounting for inflation.

There have always been expensive cards at the very top. It's not a recent trend.

That is a silly thing to say you know.
The horse-drawn carriage considering the inflation would cost $100k now since 100 years ago.
The prices for the cards are high. The advancement in the tech is supposedly make it cheaper not more expensive. There is more things to consider and put into the equation than just, price difference and your inflation.

 

[N3M3515]

Market forces dictate prices. I find it interesting that the 3000 series is cheaper than the 2000 series. Maybe Turing didn't sell so well?

The economy is also not the same as it was 10 years ago. In general, wages have gone up and the value of the dollar is less. This means things appear more expensive when your $500 king of the hill graphics card becomes a $700 graphics card.

Correction, king of the hill $500 gpu became a $1500 gpu

 

[Tomorrow]

Correction, king of the hill $500 gpu became a $1500 gpu

BS

 

[Prima.Vera]

Any ideea when can we expect those cards to be available at MSRP price? And not sold out in 2 mins...

 

[Tomorrow]

Any ideea when can we expect those cards to be available at MSRP price? And not sold out in 2 mins...

My guess is November. After Big Navi is available. That way the demand will be split by two companies, two foundries and possiblbly as much as 5 or 6 differenet SKU's:
3070
3080
3090
6800
6900

And that's not counting 16GB 3070 and 20GB 3080 plus 6700.

 

[hat]

That is a silly thing to say you know.
The horse-drawn carriage considering the inflation would cost $100k now since 100 years ago.
The prices for the cards are high. The advancement in the tech is supposedly make it cheaper not more expensive. There is more things to consider and put into the equation than just, price difference and your inflation.

But advancing tech also costs money. New fabs and designs are not cheap. However, you can probably find more than the performance of the previously mentioned 8800 Ultra in a low end, bottom of the barrel graphics card from the current generation, or perhaps even in an IGP.

 

[ratirt]

But advancing tech also costs money. New fabs and designs are not cheap. However, you can probably find more than the performance of the previously mentioned 8800 Ultra in a low end, bottom of the barrel graphics card from the current generation, or perhaps even in an IGP.

I would rather look at this not as an expense but investment instead. If what you say is true we wouldn't have any advancement. You invest in new tech to get more out of it. Remember it is also business that plays a role here. You have to look at the bigger picture. You get faster CPU for instance you invest in development and you get more customers. That's just a simple explanation but I'm sure you understand.

 

[hat]

I would rather look at this not as an expense but investment instead. If what you say is true we wouldn't have any advancement. You invest in new tech to get more out of it. Remember it is also business that plays a role here. You have to look at the bigger picture. You get faster CPU for instance you invest in development and you get more customers. That's just a simple explanation but I'm sure you understand.

You make a CPU, people buy it. Then, you use that money to develop a new, better CPU that people will buy, and so on. But it costs money to develop the CPU in the first place, as well as manufacture it. None of that is free. Just because you can make a better CPU than you could 5 years ago doesn't mean you can also do it for less money. Of course, I'm sure Intel could crank out some Pentium 4's pretty cheaply with their 14nm or 10nm process compared to their old 65nm process, but it would cost them money to port that design to the new node, and who wants a P4 in 2020? No, everyone wants newer, faster hardware.

 

[ratirt]

You make a CPU, people buy it. Then, you use that money to develop a new, better CPU that people will buy, and so on. But it costs money to develop the CPU in the first place, as well as manufacture it. None of that is free. Just because you can make a better CPU than you could 5 years ago doesn't mean you can also do it for less money. Of course, I'm sure Intel could crank out some Pentium 4's pretty cheaply with their 14nm or 10nm process compared to their old 65nm process, but it would cost them money to port that design to the new node, and who wants a P4 in 2020? No, everyone wants newer, faster hardware.

Well apparently I was wrong. You don't get it. It wouldn't cost money but time to make it happen. Although time is money but not the way you see it though. If it wouldn't be profitable no one would do it and yet.... Well what can I do to explain it.
Take it like this. The 14nm Intel and now the 14nm+++. Which one is cheaper? How do you quantify cheaper, meaning, what means cheaper here for you? Production is cheaper? Production per unit is cheaper? End product's price is cheaper? The node itself is cheaper? etc.
Port the design to the new node costs money? Is it though? It is their own product. They have the engineers who make the design, work to port it or make it better and factories to produce it. (Intel pays for that no matter if they work or not). So Intel has the resources already. If they are losing money, it is not the money they put in (there isn't a lot of them) but the time they had spent making the new node work is the factor here which means if they have finished it earlier they wouldn't lose as much money because they could have delivered the new node earlier and start making profit out of it.
Just like the 10nm. They have spent a shit load of time getting the CPUs production running on 10nm. (the mobile did make it) That is why they lost the money because it has taken them so damn long and still couldn't do it. They had to stick to 14nm+++ because they were forced to release the new product. It is not the money you put in for the porting (like you say) but the longer it takes to move to a new node the more money you lose because you can't sell the new node and product and that means you could have earned more than you actually did with the older node.
Look at TSMC's 7nm node. Companies like Intel, AMD, Apple etc. who want TSMC to make their chips at 7nm node buy time on the factory line from the calculated capacity that TSMC can deliver to them to make a chip. The time has already been sold and capacity TSMC had to offer is redistributed among the clients. They got 7nm node and already working on the 2nm. It's planning ahead that makes it running correctly. Intel didnt do shit for a long time and that is why they lost money. Stagnation not investments in a new technology is where you lose money.
It is kinda hard to explain. It is better to see it but I can't deliver you that though. Hope you understand what I'm trying to say here.

 

[Initialised]

welcome to the GeFarce Experience!

NVidiots, The way you're meant to be played!

 

[Super XP]

That's what happens when you announce a Paper Launch.

 

[EarthDog]

That's what happens when you announce a Paper Launch.

This wasn't a paper launch.

Again, the quantities were similar to the Turing launch according to NV (which also wasn't a paper launch)... popularity and bots had them sold out instantly. NV didn't allow pre-orders for partners. I'm not saying the launch was good, but by all accounts, this wasn't a paper launch.

Correction, king of the hill $500 gpu became a $1500 gpu

Do tell.

 

[Super XP]

This wasn't a paper launch.

Again, the quantities were similar to the Turing launch according to NV (which also wasn't a paper launch)... popularity and bots had them sold out instantly. NV didn't allow pre-orders for partners. I'm not saying the launch was good, but by all accounts, this wasn't a paper launch.

Do tell.

I was being sarcastic with the paper launch thingy. Lol

Correction, king of the hill $500 gpu became a $1500 gpu

Overpriced? I Agree.

 

[John Naylor]

I love the dichotomy ,,,,

For weeks half the internet has been saying "Wait for Big Navi" ... "it's gonna crush nvidia" .... " ampere's gonna flop" ....now the wisdom is .... "everyone knew the demand would be huge."

If blame has to be placed somewhere, blame the small % of folks who put so much stock in being the 1st one on the block to have to new shiny thing ... "pay attention to meeeeee... look what I got." Consider 'what did ya get ? Long waits till delivery, if yours was even accepted, maybe ya got your 3rd choice of models, ya paid more, how much time did ya spend sniping, unstable drivers ... when all is said and done... is it worth it ? For some it may be and that's fine ... but every once and a while we should all rethink our life balance.

But consider, if you want a better value purchase ....

a) If you wait for the launch day price premium to subside
b) If you wait for the competition's new cards to arrive
c) If you wait to read the reviews to see which cards are hits and which are misses. .... remember "Oh crap, this model has a non "A" version GPU" ... oh crap those model have a fulty cooler design" ... "oh crap, they didn't used thermal pads on this model"...."Oh crap I broke may fan taking this stupid tape off'.
d) If you wait for the production line tweaks to improve OC abilities.
e) If you what till the BIOS fixes and stable drivers arrive and maybe your blood pressure will be more stable.
f) If you wait for the holidays to pass and for supply to catch up with demand.

Frustration leads to unsupported conclusions, and recognizing how economics works is a valuable tool.... consumers create price increases. Vendors can not make money on products they don't have, so yes, expect them to do whet every seller on the planet would do and make the most of what they got. They also can't make money off stuff that sits on the shelves ... so when stuff sits, prices drop.

The mindset where cards are overpriced is a construct ... as in not real. To compare the cost of things from different years, you have to look at them in the context of inflation exists. Whether or not competition exists also affects prcing .

NVIDIA shows signs ... [2008 - 2017]

Planning to commercialize cars equipped with NVIDIA's AI within one year - NVIDIA and Mercedes The joint development of the two companies has been underway three years ago, according to Jen-Hsun Huang, founder and CEO of NVIDIA, said that it will be able to reach commercialization in the next...

forum.beyond3d.com

"As we can see from this chart, current pricing for the 1080 Ti is pretty much inline with where NVIDIA has typically [$700] been. When adjusted for inflation the 1080 Ti almost exactly matches the price of the GeForce 2 Ultra from back in 2000. We have some notable fluctuation over the years, which mostly seems to coincide with when NVIDIA had true competition in the market place. When NVIDIA were on top, and the competition had nothing, the prices went up, as we can see with the 8800 Ultra. Other times, during periods of higher competition in the market, pricing was lower. You could argue that the 1080 Ti is actually under-priced for the market climate. Argue whichever way you want about the appropriateness of NVIDIA's pricing, but this information does show a trend much in line with the relative market position of the brand."

As was shown in the referenced graphic, from 2000 to 2017 the price of the year appropriate 3080 equivalent was around $700 (in 2017 dollars). If we take $700 on 2017 dollars and adjust for inflation ... the 3080 should cost .... $700 x 259.918 / 243.801 = $746.28 .

So based upon 20 years of cost data averaging $700 ... the 3080 is under priced... especially here in US where tariffs are being applied and shipping / handling costs are pandemic inflated. No doubt someone will attempt to invalidate 20 years of data wrong by bringing up the 2080 Ti .... but an exception does not invalidate the rule. We had a unique situation then where there were thousands of 1xxx series cards sitting in warehouses. In order to clear this space, 2xxx series cards were boosted in price till that inventory was cleared. Just as we see now with peeps paying $1500 for a $700 card at auction, while everything from the 2080 down eventually normalized, the supply of 2080 Tis never caught up with demand ... so those prices hung up there. As the quote and data set show.... the only time prices got weird, it was "When NVIDIA were on top, and the competition had nothing, the prices went up,"... so if ya need to lay blame, why not blame the competition.

This applies to the greater population much more to than in here with us nerds and geeks as techie types tend to be more data oriented. But in the social media era, there's a subset of every population whose self worth is tied to how may "likes" they get on social media apps .... "I gotta have the right phone" ... "I gotta have the right sneakers' ... "I gotta have the right video card".... "I gotta have the right jeans, handbag, haircut ... yada yada yada ...

If we wanna complain about products selling out and products pricing being too high in this sector ... it has to be recognized that this is no different than any other sought after product... folks wait on line for days to buy a phone ... the same phone that other people will get 3 days later who never left their couch. Handbags and sneakers sell out in hours and become "collectables". Fashion choices are based upon "infuencers" rather than a person's own tastes.

But we too have to look in the mirror .... If we're setting an alarm to wake up so we can start sniping cards the minute they go on sale, maybe something's missing. Maybe it's time to sit back, relax and consider that when it comes to PC componentry, better things actually come to those who wait.

 

[Fluffmeister]

Shocking from Nvidia, I'm glad I bought a 295X2 for $1500 way back in 2014, I got two GPU's for my money! Damn you nGreedia!

 

[The Von Matrices]

This happens every time, whether it's graphics cards, CPUs, or video game consoles. Why don't manufacturers just follow the rules of economics?

If demand is greater than supply, then demand the highest price the market will bear while still selling out the limited supply, then lower the price later when supply exceeds demand.

The 3080 should have had an MSRP of at least $1000 at launch, maybe even higher. Then, a few months later when supply is available, the MSRP can be lowered to $700, and the people who bought at launch will have lost $300 to depreciation. That's an early adopter tax, and it's completely normal.

Instead, all that's happening is that NVidia is getting $700 and the resellers are getting $300 instead of NVidia getting the full $1000, which is dumb on NVidia's part.

 

[Tomorrow]

This happens every time, whether it's graphics cards, CPUs, or video game consoles. Why don't manufacturers just follow the rules of economics?

If demand is greater than supply, then demand the highest price the market will bear while still selling out the limited supply, then lower the price later when supply exceeds demand.

The 3080 should have had an MSRP of at least $1000 at launch, maybe even higher. Then, a few months later when supply is available, the MSRP can be lowered to $700, and the people who bought at launch will have lost $300 to depreciation. That's an early adopter tax, and it's completely normal.

Instead, all that's happening is that NVidia is getting $700 and the resellers are getting $300 instead of NVidia getting the full $1000, which is dumb on NVidia's part.

And in the process have no fixed MSRP? What exactly are reviewers supposed to base their value evaluation on? You can't expect them to go back every month and change the conclusion.
Plus it would piss off early buyers more than the current situation. Knowing that in a few months time you have lost hundreds or even thousands of dollars.
Your system would just postpone the current situation, not eliminate it. Vast majority of people would just wait and the whole thing would happen months later anyway.

I think it would be a far better option for manufacturer to have minimum a 2-3 month production buffer and have adequate protections in place for buyers - like early registration and queue, 2FA on checkout etc. Notice how Apple, despite massive demand seems to be able to launch their products without any such drama. It can be done but requires a better suppy chain and better thought out launch strategy.

 

[Super XP]

The majority of Nvidia GPUs have always been overpriced.
This is a common fact that's undisputable.

 

[EarthDog]

The majority of Nvidia GPUs have always been overpriced.
This is a common fact that's undisputable.

Water is wet. Also a common fact that is undisputable.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Water is wet. Also a common fact that is undisputable.

New card's with leading performance sell out is also a common fact, hopefully next time Nvidia will remember their many prior launches and dream up a better excuse.
Yet they revisited ol' Consumer demand, Again.

 

[EarthDog]

New card's with leading performance sell out is also a common fact, hopefully next time Nvidia will remember their many prior launches and dream up a better excuse.
Yet they revisited ol' Consumer demand, Again.

And? Your point?

Water is STILL wet.

 

[Super XP]

Water is wet. Also a common fact that is undisputable.

Correct.
Glad you agree.

And to my original point, hopefully RDNA2 helps keep GPU prices reasonable ya know

 

[EarthDog]

Correct.
Glad you agree.

And to my original point, hopefully RDNA2 helps keep GPU prices reasonable ya know

Well, priced higher I can agree with. Overpriced... doesn't seem so considering how many they sold.

The person you originally quoted over this cites a $500 flagship GPU from 2013 (GTX 780 as 780Ti is a lot more pricey along with the first titan...so his information is 'off' a bit, hence why I originally quoted him and asked "do tell" to which we never saw the poster gain. So, fast forward 7 years you have a $800 flagship that is multiple times faster than said previous flagship. I can see why everyone is so upset with Ampere.........(sarcasm). Remember, the 3080 is tagged as the flagship, the 3090 is a Titan replacement, hence its price point. I'm sorry if the lack of the word Titan in the name seems to confuse so many.

You (and many others, me too!) may want to pay less, and I get it, but if it was priced outlandishly, one would think they had issues with them sitting on the shelves. You take what the market gives you. Capitalism.

 

[Super XP]

Well, priced higher I can agree with. Overpriced... doesn't seem so considering how many they sold.

The person you originally quoted over this cites a $500 flagship GPU from 2013 (GTX 780 as 780Ti is a lot more pricey along with the first titan...so his information is 'off' a bit, hence why I originally quoted him and asked "do tell" to which we never saw the poster gain. So, fast forward 7 years you have a $800 flagship that is multiple times faster than said previous flagship. I can see why everyone is so upset with Ampere.........(sarcasm).

You (and many others) may want to pay less, and I get it, but if it was priced that high, one would think they had issues with them sitting on the shelves. You take what the market gives you. Capitalism.

I suppose we will agree to disagree. Despite living in a capitalist country, I don't agree with it.
It is what it is, and I understand why Nvidia prices it's GPUs high, because there's no real competition beyond the RTX 2070S. Hence the premium prices they can get away with.