ThrottleStop Setting

[nguyen]

Hai today I found out that the temp are back alot worse, when idle it never went below 54 degree and gpu is idle on 50 degree, Funy thing sometime when browsing it spike the temp to 97....

Does your laptop sit in one place all the time or you carry it around ?
After some heavy workload, I suggest let the laptop cool down first before storing it in a backpack (let the laptop sit in idle for 15min before shutting down). The reason is that the TIM might drip out from the CPU die when you store the Laptop vertically and the TIM is still hot.

 

[budgetgaming]

I forgot to photo when I replace the I found out that the tin on the cpu die barely left....also the Thermalpad, I found that there is resedue on the pad....I have worried that i might not get the right thickness of the pad

 

[Hicksetto]

Do you know why my post gone to "moderator approval" ?

Hello Guys,

I have been testing some ThrottleStop setting for a while and come across to this valuable topic. First of all thanks a million to @unclewebb for this great tool. And many thanks to @nguyen and @budgetgaming for priceless inputs in this topic.

I'm using HP Omen 15 2020 with i7 10750H CPU and RTX 2070 Max-Q Refresh (105w.) GPU.

I found best perf/temp with below settings after reading this topic but I'm sure that we can improve with your great experiences:

Speed Shift - EPP : 0
CPU Core Offset Voltage : -0,225.6 mV
CPU Cache Offset Voltage : -0,82 mV
TPL PL1 : 45
TPL PL2 : 55

CPU temp is around 80 degrees and most of the time I see CPU over 4.0 GHz. (This make me feel Windows is very responsive than before.)

I hit my best 3D Mark Time Spy with 7384 points. ( VGA OC'ed a bit.)

My questions are;

I was using EEP 128 / No PL / -0.115 mV for all CPU/Cache/iGPU before and getting around 7200 3D Mark TS points and some times (very rare) CPU can jump up to 90 for a second maybe. I was thinking that Core/Cache UV voltage values should be same and if not CPU will use higher value for both and ignore lower one. And one more thing, I was getting BSOD if I go above -0,115 mV. before.

Now could you please explain why these changes did not make a performance improvement but make temps lower? I was getting 3200 points from Cinebench R20 before but now I can only get 2760 points... Why I can't see the performance of CPU (over 4.0 GHz. ) on benchmarks?

Thanks in advance...

Adding TS log on Cinebench R23 Multi Core running for 30 mins...

Adding TS settings:

 

[nguyen]

Speed Shift - EPP : 0
CPU Core Offset Voltage : -0,225.6 mV
CPU Cache Offset Voltage : -0,82 mV
TPL PL1 : 45
TPL PL2 : 55

So these are your current UV settings ? maybe you can try -90mV on Cache and -180mV on Core (once Core offset is more than 2:1 ratio to Cache, there is no benefit).

From your R23 stress log I can see you have plenty of thermal headroom, you can increase the performance by increasing the Long power to 55W and Short power to 70. In game CPU temp can stay in the 80C and some peaks over 90C are totally okay. Or if you want to lower the fan noise then keep the current PL1/2 and lower the fans speed.

I think keeping the EPP value at 0 would be best for a more responsive experience, the higher the EPP, the slower the CPU clock ramp up and lower performance in Cinebench.

 

[Hicksetto]

So these are your current UV settings ? maybe you can try -90mV on Cache and -180mV on Core (once Core offset is more than 2:1 ratio to Cache, there is no benefit).

From your R23 stress log I can see you have plenty of thermal headroom, you can increase the performance by increasing the Long power to 55W and Short power to 70. In game CPU temp can stay in the 80C and some peaks over 90C are totally okay. Or if you want to lower the fan noise then keep the current PL1/2 and lower the fans speed.

I think keeping the EPP value at 0 would be best for a more responsive experience, the higher the EPP, the slower the CPU clock ramp up and lower performance in Cinebench.

Thanks a lot @nguyen !

Testing with:

Speed Shift - EPP : 0
CPU Core Offset Voltage : -180.7 mV
CPU Cache Offset Voltage : -90.8 mV
TPL PL1 : 55
TPL PL2 : 70

Cinebench R20 jumped to 2933
3D Mark Time Spy jumped to 7479

TS log during 3D Mark Time Spy attached...

So far so good

And adding 30 mins. long Cinebench R23 TS log:

 

[unclewebb]

TPL PL1 : 55

At 55W, your CPU temperatures are fantastic. Nice to see a manufacturer include a decent heatsink and fan.

I would not hesitate to increase this to 70W for long and 80W or 90W for short. Be prepared for a higher Cinebench score.

once Core offset is more than 2:1 ratio to Cache, there is no benefit

I have found that on 10th Gen CPUs, you can benefit from exceeding the 2:1 ratio. The 8th and 9th Gen liked 2:1 but most of the 10th Gen have to use less cache offset so you can exceed 2:1.

-80 mV for cache and -200 mV or -220 mV for core is fine on 10th Gen.

Edit - I would also check the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box.

 

[Hicksetto]

At 55W, your CPU temperatures are fantastic. Nice to see a manufacturer include a decent heatsink and fan.

I would not hesitate to increase this to 70W for long and 80W or 90W for short. Be prepared for a higher Cinebench score.


I have found that on 10th Gen CPUs, you can benefit from exceeding the 2:1 ratio. The 8th and 9th Gen liked 2:1 but most of the 10th Gen have to use less cache offset so you can exceed 2:1.

-80 mV for cache and -200 mV or -220 mV for core is fine on 10th Gen.

Thanks for follow up... What about "POWER STATUS CHANGE" records in logs? Are these normal?

 

[unclewebb]

POWER STATUS CHANGE

These notifications usually happen when you unplug or plug in your laptop. If you are using some software to maintain your battery at 70% charge then you might also see a lot of these notifications. I prefer a fully charged battery.

Some laptops are shipped with power adapters that are inadequate. Some of these will switch to battery power when heavily loaded to make up the difference for the wimpy power adapter.

I only noticed this one time in your two logs. I have seen some laptops where this is happening every 5 seconds.

 

[Hicksetto]

These notifications usually happen when you unplug or plug in your laptop. If you are using some software to maintain your battery at 70% charge then you might also see a lot of these notifications. I prefer a fully charged battery.

Some laptops are shipped with power adapters that are inadequate. Some of these will switch to battery power when heavily loaded to make up the difference for the wimpy power adapter.

I only noticed this one time in your two logs. I have seen some laptops where this is happening every 5 seconds.

Thanks a lot @unclewebb really appreciated your efforts and kindness.

I did not unplug/plug and I do not have battery maintaining software. Maybe it is related with "Some laptops are shipped with power adapters that are inadequate. Some of these will switch to battery power when heavily loaded to make up the difference for the wimpy power adapter." as you said.

I will test more and will share my experiences.

Do you have information about a tool which can be used for mobile GPUs like ThrottleStop ?

 

[unclewebb]

The POWER STATUS CHANGE notice might have been an act of God. Perhaps there was a power drop and your laptop had to switch to battery power for a millisecond. The one time I saw this in the log file, there was no difference in performance registered. Nothing to worry about.

Do you have information about a tool which can be used for mobile GPUs like ThrottleStop ?

A ThrottleStop like mobile GPU tool would be wonderful. You can try MSI Afterburner to see if your GPU is supported. I think most mobile GPUs are locked down. Trying to flash the BIOS on a mobile GPU is too risky for me.

 

[Hicksetto]

The POWER STATUS CHANGE notice might have been an act of God. Perhaps there was a power drop and your laptop had to switch to battery power for a millisecond. The one time I saw this in the log file, there was no difference in performance registered. Nothing to worry about.

A ThrottleStop like mobile GPU tool would be wonderful. You can try MSI Afterburner to see if your GPU is supported. I think most mobile GPUs are locked down. Trying to flash the BIOS on a mobile GPU is too risky for me.

Thanks for explanations...

I set Power Limits to 70/90:

Cinebench R20 jumped to 3254
3D Mark Time spy jumped to 7523
And temp jumped to 89

 

[unclewebb]

I set Power Limits to 70/90:

At 70W your temps are still OK. You could set the short limit to 80W or 90W and your Cinebench scores would improve some more. When the Nvidia GPU is active when gaming, you might have to use a more conservative power limit.

So many laptops are borderline pathetic. Your laptop was a lucky find. So much additional performance just waiting to be unleashed.

jumped

I really like how you keep using that word. Almost like we are training an animal to jump higher and higher through a hoop!

Edit - Only two 10750H submissions at HWBot so far. You are already ahead of both of them.

OVIZ Hardware Lab`s Cinebench - R20 score: 3215 cb with a Core i7 10750H

The Core i7 10750H @ 4500MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R20 benchmark. OVIZ Hardware Labranks #null worldwide and #3 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

Use the Task Manager to run Cinebench at a higher Windows priority. Might be a few more points still hiding.
Does your laptop have the factory memory? Is it the 8 GB or 16 GB model? I think it must be the 16 GB model since that is the one that comes with the 2070 Max-Q.

 

[Hicksetto]

At 70W your temps are still OK. You could set the short limit to 80W or 90W and your Cinebench scores would improve some more. When the Nvidia GPU is active when gaming, you might have to use a more conservative power limit.

So many laptops are borderline pathetic. Your laptop was a lucky find. So much additional performance just waiting to be unleashed.


I really like how you keep using that word. Almost like we are training an animal to jump higher and higher through a hoop!

Edit - Only two 10750H submissions at HWBot so far. You are already ahead of both of them.

OVIZ Hardware Lab`s Cinebench - R20 score: 3215 cb with a Core i7 10750H

The Core i7 10750H @ 4500MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R20 benchmark. OVIZ Hardware Labranks #null worldwide and #3 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

Use the Task Manager to run Cinebench at a higher Windows priority. Might be a few more points still hiding.
Does your laptop have the factory memory? Is it the 8 GB or 16 GB model? I think it must be the 16 GB model since that is the one that comes with the 2070 Max-Q.

Yes it is the one with 16 GB 2933MHz. RAM but I switched with 32 GB 2666MHz. RAM (this one has 3000MHz. XMP profile but my laptop does not support XMP profiles, I learned it after I bought the RAM).

Details: https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c06656597/

I will test some more settings and then post to HWBOT

Exactly, we are training our laptops to jump more and more through benchmark hoops.

 

[nguyen]

I have found that on 10th Gen CPUs, you can benefit from exceeding the 2:1 ratio. The 8th and 9th Gen liked 2:1 but most of the 10th Gen have to use less cache offset so you can exceed 2:1.

-80 mV for cache and -200 mV or -220 mV for core is fine on 10th Gen.

Edit - I would also check the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box.

Before I only confirmed with R20 score when experimenting with core offset exceeding 2:1 ratio and it was within margin of error, but now I checked again and it really does lower the CPU temp with higher Core Offset.

Thank you for your information, learning new trick every day is fun .

Thanks for explanations...

I set Power Limits to 70/90:

Cinebench R20 jumped to 3254
3D Mark Time spy jumped to 7523
And temp jumped to 89

Fantastic score there buddy, another trick for higher Timespy score (also higher in-game FPS) is enabling the Max-Q dynamic Boost in NVCP. This will allow additional power for the GPU when CPU is using less than 45W.
If you can't find it in the NVCP then it's not supported for your laptop, but I highly suspect it will.

 

[Hicksetto]

Before I only confirmed with R20 score when experimenting with core offset exceeding 2:1 ratio and it was within margin of error, but now I checked again and it really does lower the CPU temp with higher Core Offset.

Thank you for your information, learning new trick every day is fun .



Fantastic score there buddy, another trick for higher Timespy score (also higher in-game FPS) is enabling the Max-Q dynamic Boost in NVCP. This will allow additional power for the GPU when CPU is using less than 45W.
If you can't find it in the NVCP then it's not supported for your laptop, but I highly suspect it will.

Thanks a lot for the information, Dynamic Boost is enabled by default.

Just wondering why Core/Cache offsets are behaving weird... For example I can set Core -225 Cache -82 or -220 / -90 or -115 / -115 but I cannot increase Core / Cache more than -115 both, or can not increase one above -115 if the other one is -115 or more, if I do this I got BSOD.

Which one would you choose?

-220 / -90 or -115 / -115

 

[nguyen]

Thanks a lot for the information, Dynamic Boost is enabled by default.

Just wondering why Core/Cache offsets are behaving weird... For example I can set Core -225 Cache -82 or -220 / -90 or -115 / -115 but I cannot increase Core / Cache more than -115 both, or can not increase one above -115 if the other one is -115 or more, if I do this I got BSOD.

Which one would you choose?

-220 / -90 or -115 / -115

I suspect that -115mV Cache/ -115mV Core is already unstable in your case, so keep Cache offset at -90mV and Core at -220mV would be best, also Core offet matters more anyways.

You can experiment on your own too, while confirming your undervolt stability with Cinebench R20 score or ThrottleStop Bench.

 

[Hicksetto]

I suspect that -115mV Cache/ -115mV Core is already unstable in your case, so keep Cache offset at -90mV and Core at -220mV would be best, also Core offet matters more anyways.

You can experiment on your own too, while confirming your undervolt stability with Cinebench R20 score or ThrottleStop Bench.

Thanks! Both options leads to same temp values and looks stable that is why I’m asking.

 

[nguyen]

Thanks! Both options leads to same temp values and looks stable that is why I’m asking.

You can test the -115mV Core/Cache with the TS bench with 1-2 threads for stability, sometimes it seems stable but it actually doesn't and might ruin your windows installation.

 

[budgetgaming]

I belive that the Omen 2020 model has far better cooling then the 2019 model, Great Setting @Hicksetto
and a very nice laptop too....

 

[Hicksetto]

And finally I trained my laptop and now it can jump through my temp/perf/smoothness hoop.

With below settings in screenshot, I'm not getting any limit or thermal throttling signal in TS and performance is rock solid:

3020 points in Cinebench R20
7470 points in 3D Mark Time Spy

I tested in COD BO CW / MSFS2020 and results are like attached TS logs.
As you can see, the key thing here is I modified Turbo speeds for each active core number which did the trick.
With these settings micro stuttering totally gone, weird FPS drops gone...

My goal was never pure performance, I was only seeking optimal performance without any speed/fps/frequency drops and I finally did it with you great experiences. Once again thank you very much all of you in this topic...

@unclewebb @nguyen @budgetgaming

 

[budgetgaming]

@Hicksetto I have news for you, Omen Finaly heard us, Update your Omen command center with new Omen Gaming HUb, to a supprise for omen fans, There is option nativly to undervolt you laptop, is that great news....or what

 

[Hicksetto]

@Hicksetto I have news for you, Omen Finaly heard us, Update your Omen command center with new Omen Gaming HUb, to a supprise for omen fans, There is option nativly to undervolt you laptop, is that great news....or what

Thanks @budgetgaming unfortunately "Undervolting" tab in OGH is not working for me. Posted details to HP forums with no luck:

Omen Gaming Hub - "Undervolting" menu is not working. OCC SDK cannot be installed...

I'm using "OMEN Laptop - 15-ek0002nt" model Omen 15 2020 laptop. Today Omen Control Center updated from Windows Store to version v. 11.0.8.0 and its name changed to "Omen Gamin Hub". Most important change is now we have "Undervolting" tab! Unfortunately "Undervolting" tab is not working for me...

h30434.www3.hp.com

Anyways, afaik it can only modify Core/Cache voltages. TS gives us much more flexibility. Thanks again to @unclewebb

I want to test it if I can make it work...

 

[budgetgaming]

Thanks @budgetgaming unfortunately "Undervolting" tab in OGH is not working for me. Posted details to HP forums with no luck:

Omen Gaming Hub - "Undervolting" menu is not working. OCC SDK cannot be installed...

I'm using "OMEN Laptop - 15-ek0002nt" model Omen 15 2020 laptop. Today Omen Control Center updated from Windows Store to version v. 11.0.8.0 and its name changed to "Omen Gamin Hub". Most important change is now we have "Undervolting" tab! Unfortunately "Undervolting" tab is not working for me...

h30434.www3.hp.com

Anyways, afaik it can only modify Core/Cache voltages. TS gives us much more flexibility. Thanks again to @unclewebb

I want to test it if I can make it work...

You have to remove your omen command center, restart and download again doing search omen gaming hub, i wass sucess in that

 

[Hicksetto]

You have to remove your omen command center, restart and download again doing search omen gaming hub, i wass sucess in that

Reinstalled it several times with no luck... Was it same issue for you before?

 

[budgetgaming]

Reinstalled it several times with no luck... Was it same issue for you before?

Yes, first update the same as you, have u tried to look the windows store update... See if they install it or not

This is the result using inteligent mode bench marking on cinebench r23, very bad setting