NVidia, What gives? Seriously?!?

[Whitestar]

Well, I think we've spotted the Nvidia employee in this tread.

 

[Robert Bourgoin]

Honest reviews is what sells for me.
I always read the reviews and you can tell where there is honesty, and very much appreciated at that.
Glad I'm moving over to AMD all the way in my new build.

 

[Vya Domus]

tech tuber drama, meh, who gives a flying fk

hardware unboxed has been hardcore shilling for amd for quite a while, their videos are so biased and their charts are so tiny it hurts my eyes watching it. got caught with their pants done and potentially have free stuff taken away and they cry on internet hoping for a pitchfork internet mob. Grow a pair of balls hardware unboxed. Nvidia wanna pull the plug then you should just man up and buy your own fking reviewing cards.

JFC I am disgusted by that channel

You know I still believe in those rumors from back in the day on how Nvidia was paying forum users to influence people's opinion on their brand. On TPU you'd be my number one guess for being one of them.

Well, I think we've spotted the Nvidia employee in this tread.

For real.

 

[Splinterdog]

For those of us who prefer the written word, here's an article on the 'journalistic' spat at Techspot.

The ugly side of Nvidia: A rollercoaster ride that shows when Big Tech doesn't get it

As a corporation, it's Nvidia's prerogative to decide on the reviewers it chooses to collaborate with. However, this and other related incidents raise serious questions around journalistic...

www.techspot.com

 

[Vayra86]

Yeah, just saw that. They still need see this. They only backpedaled because of outrage. They need to see and understand that a fundamental change needs to happen within the NVidia ranks. Mr Leather Jacket himself needs to pull NVidias head out of the sand & out their ass and behave better.

Mr Leather Jacket is the architect my man. He's on top of everything, let's not be too naive.

He's already working on the next illusion... DLSS 3.0?. You bought into his RT story too...
Its not like I've been saying stuff about that for quite a while now. Its not like there is a truth in it... or is there? We bought this arrogance by buying Turing.

Its about time people wake the fuck up. You get what you pay for.

Really? I literally work in this industry and am appalled by this. Granted, I understand we do not live in a perfect world, but this is the year 2020, not 1980. Behavior like this is not acceptable. It is toxic and destructive. It must not be tolerated.

Then vote with your damn wallet. Anything else is cognitive dissonance.

You know I still believe in those rumors from back in the day on how Nvidia was paying forum users to influence people's opinion on their brand. On TPU you'd be my number one guess for being one of them.

Nah some people are just weird. Fine too, but weird.

I just cannot stress enough here that we bought into this ourselves for giving Huang favor of the doubt the past gen and this one. Look at what Nvidia is releasing and pushing forward. Think twice about getting into it at this time. The actual practice still is that Nvidia determines what constitutes for performance in a black box of effects. Its not good and it will bite us in the ass again and again. Meanwhile we get super heavy lighting effects that, even with a smart upscale, halve the performance. I can't recall ever having shown any desire for that, but apparently in a parallel developer universe 'the industry' was screaming for it. Okay. I think the screamer was Nvidia who saw their old GPUs slaughtering mainstream resolutions now and going forward.

Right now we have people in defense of a 700 MSRP, 10GB GPU while predecessors with far less core power had more VRAM. 'Because it'll probably be fine'... Again I say, wake. The. fuck. Up. Its not even fine for lack of a better alternative. Its just less than what we've had, simple, while memory demands have only gone up, not down. The rationale for choosing it: 'But it has DLSS and RT'... 'But its only 700'... pinch me, am I dreaming or? Do you even realize what you're buying into now? I'll answer it: Huang's parallel universe. Cyberpunk was never closer eh.

None of this is progress and all of it is 'See, told you so...' Just wait a few years and I can write another such post. Smoke > Fire. Its not difficult...

 

[Kapone33]

The fact of the matter is AMD is doing to Nvidia the same thing it did to Intel. All this noise is confirmation of that but even before that how many upcoming launches has Nvidia leaked in the last month. Just like with Intel I also expect AMD to focus on those very same things that Nvidia touts in the near future. If Nvidia is willing to ban hardware unboxed (who try to be objective) I guess it might be because Steve actually runs an AM4 Test rig that he is a shill (laughable). At the end of the day this is not new or different than the whole Dell, Intel AMd debacle but because social media is tech's mind share it really can balloon out of control for the aggressor if they don't cross their Ts as Nvidia obviously did not. At a very high level it shows the effect of Greed in real time.

 

[docnorth]

Really? I literally work in this industry and am appalled by this. Granted, I understand we do not live in a perfect world, but this is the year 2020, not 1980. Behavior like this is not acceptable. It is toxic and destructive. It must not be tolerated.

Nah, even AMD, the supposedly small player, does the same, I'll show you 2 examples:
1)When Ryzen 2700x came out suddenly everyone (reviewers included) became a video editor. I had the chance at the office to work with both 8700 non-K and 2700x in almost identical branded PCs. 8700 non-K is a much better and slightly cooler(!) CPU but the hyped 2700x sold much more.
2)When Nvidia 1650 75w came out most reviewers, not all to be fair, wrote or said that rx 570 has a better VFM. They didn't even bother to calculate what impact on annual cost the 100w (ranging from 85 to 120) higher consumption can have with "only" 3-4 hours gaming per day. In both cases I don't think the reviewers were idiots, they were just "convinced" to focus on certain parameters. Of course Intel, Nvidia, Apple etc they all do the same, usually more discrete...We should ALWAYS condemn such practices.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Mr Leather Jacket is the architect my man. He's on top of everything, let's not be too naive.

He's already working on the next illusion... DLSS 3.0?. You bought into his RT story too...
Its not like I've been saying stuff about that for quite a while now. Its not like there is a truth in it... or is there? We bought this arrogance by buying Turing.

Oh save that nonsense. Real-time ray-tracing is the real deal and there is no doubt that it is the future for lighting in games.

Then vote with your damn wallet. Anything else is cognitive dissonance.

Normally that would be great advice, but not in this situation.

NVidia's technological achievements are not on issue here. NVidia's treatment of the press & reviewer community as well as business tactics are. Please stay on topic.

 

[Vayra86]

Oh save that nonsense. Real-time ray-tracing is the real deal and there is no doubt that it is the future for lighting is games.

Normally that would be great advice, but not in this situation.

NVidia's technological achievements are not on issue here. NVidia's treatment of the press & reviewer community as well as business tactics are. Please stay on topic.

Put two and two together for once. There is a direct relation to funding early adoption of a technology that is only offered by ONE player in the market with nothing to reference it against, and what we have here today - which is the same player enforcing media to view things according to that reference. I'm not saying RT is not the real deal - I'm saying the timing is convenient for Nvidia and Nvidia alone, and counterproductive for us as consumers. Have been saying, by the way, for a long time. I'm not sure how much more evidence we need...

Its not a personal attack. Its an observation and you would do well to get that rammed into your skull. We all do. And we need constant reminders of it.

Or don't, and keep being pissed about the wrong things. Causality is a thing though.

Its also an uncomfortable truth.

 

[xrobwx71]

Ray Tracing? What is that? I can't seem to obtain a card that supports it.

 

[EarthDog]

LOL, did you write up news for TPU? Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww...tellin.............................. lol

And... this has been going on for AGES... easily since I have been in the review game (for a decade). Why this is surprising or zOMG HOLY SHIT NEW TO ME... is beyond me as this happens all the time with all review products.

It's bullshit, indeed, but nothing new. My site fought with them a few generations back about results we had that didn't match theirs... Same CPU, RAM speed,...everything matched their hardware/OS setup, but our values were lower... across 2 different reviewers and systems... we stuck with it, and missed out on the next gen until we had a F2F at CES a year or two later... then parts started flowing again.

I saw this on techspot this morning and Nvidia ended up walking back on their letter

Was going to say, this was 'over' a day later/before this thread was even started with NV's backtracking.

 

[Whitestar]

Well, despite Nvidia trying their best to make me dislike them I'm still planning to get a 3080.
The reason is simple: It has much better performance in a certain game that I play a lot, and also has a few features that I need (not RT).

 

[xrobwx71]

LOL, did you write up news for TPU?

And... this has been going on for AGES... easily since I have been in the review game (for a decade). Why this is suprising or zOMG HOLY SHIT NEW TO ME... is beyond me.

It's sarcasm.

Well, despite Nvidia trying their best to make me dislike them I'm still planning to get a 3080.
The reason is simple: It has much better performance in a certain game that I play a lot, and also has a few features that I need (not RT).

Me too. Whenever that may be.

 

[ratirt]

LOL, did you write up news for TPU?

And... this has been going on for AGES... easily since I have been in the review game (for a decade). Why this is suprising or zOMG HOLY SHIT NEW TO ME... is beyond me.

Are you saying that since this has been happening for ages, we should do nothing about it and make no fuss when something like that happens in the future? No one said it's new.
Everyone (or maybe most people) see this as something wrong, abusive and arrogant that shouldn't have happened. If we, all of us, allow this type of behavior and do nothing about it, it will happen more often. I don't think anyone wants that.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Put two and two together for once.

Gee, thanks.

There is a direct relation to funding early adoption of a technology that is only offered by ONE player in the market with nothing to reference it against

NVidia developed RTX using their own resources. Of course they were the only player for a while, they were the first to market with RTRT. This is how innovation works. You were telling ME to put two and two together? Yeah, you can save that crap too.

I'm not saying RT is not the real deal - I'm saying the timing is convenient for Nvidia and Nvidia alone

So what if it's convenient for them? Again, they were the first to market. That's how technology advancement works.

Or don't, and keep being pissed about the wrong things. Causality is a thing though.

Tell me, how is being displeased about the mistreatment of a reviewer "being pissed about the wrong things"?

Once again you're attempting to derail the thread. Stay on topic.

Well, despite Nvidia trying their best to make me dislike them I'm still planning to get a 3080.

Right there with you. This problem is not about the products NVidia offers, it's about the behavior exhibited that must not be tolerated. They need stern correction, not banishment.

 

[EarthDog]

It's sarcasm.

I wasn't responding to you. RT has nothing to do with this thread or what I said/my response had nothing to with RT. That said, I should have quoted the first post for clarity.

Are you saying that since this has been happening for ages, we should do nothing about it and make no fuss when something like that happens in the future? No one said it's new.
Everyone (or maybe most people) see this as something wrong, abusive and arrogant that shouldn't have happened. If we, all of us, allow this type of behavior and do nothing about it, it will happen more often. I don't think anyone wants that.

And nobody said this is OK, lol (da fuq?). I'm simply surprised at all the incredulous responses over such a common activity.

It needs to go away sure, but, it won't. Light has been shed on this issue with multple entities and it still goes on. This isn't the first time for NV, even. It sucks, more so for smaller sites that don't always get the nod for first run parts and cannot afford to buy (a lot of) samples.

But yeah, this is, sadly, almost an industry standard. It made 'news' because they did it to such a high profile reviewer/YTer.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I wasn't responding to you. I should have quoted the first post.

I understood you. And no, this was me acting on my own hoping a little bit that TPU staff have had similar experience and would be ok with letting this one rant fly for the sake of perhaps being a small part of a bigger positive outcome.

common activity.

Just because it's common doesn't make it ok. Perhaps if you had published your experiences then it might be much less common now. EarthDog, you are effectively giving the "Hey, its just business." argument. You of all people should know full well that dismissing such a thing like that is no less wrong than the problem itself. Instead of dismissing it as "common activity", get involved in putting it to an end. Otherwise you're just a sheep.

 

[EarthDog]

Just because it's common doesn't make it ok.

I'm left sitting here wondering how many people are going to put words in my mouth. lol. I even said above it needs to go away and still other's interpretations are stuffed down my throat.

This is a terrible practice, people... do what you can, of course... but FFS it's been going on forever and I highly doubt it will go away.

Nvidia failed to push enough of the industry forward or along with its technology. Even today the content on show is very sparse and a lot of it is not very impressive. I question the usefulness of us rewarding that with purchases.

Do you think things just spring into existence? Like, GPU offers X, games now offer X with a tiny patch. That isn't how this works... it takes time... and many people... too many people IMO, don't understand it takes time for market saturation. How can you put out RT in games when the hardware can't handle it? The hardware has to be there FIRST, support follows (or it doesn't). Now that consoles/AMD is in the game, we should start to see more momentum on that front as time goes on.

But please don't penalize NV for bringing it to the table FIRST.


EDIT to your edit:

I understood you. And no, this was me acting on my own hoping a little bit that TPU staff have had similar experience and would be ok with letting this one rant fly for the sake of perhaps being a small part of a bigger positive outcome.

I'm surprised it didn't get deleted and proper news thread put up... maybe they stopped being curiously pissed about that, lol!

........or don't want to feel NV's wrath themselves..........................................

 

[Vayra86]

Gee, thanks.

NVidia developed RTX using their own resources. Of course they were the only player for a while, they were the first to market with RTRT. This is how innovation works. You were telling ME to put two and two together? Yeah, you can save that crap too.

So what if it's convenient for them? Again, they were the first to market. That's how technology advancement works.

Tell me, how is being displeased about the mistreatment of a reviewer "being pissed about the wrong things"?

Once again you're attempting to derail the thread. Stay on topic.


Right there with you. This problem is not about the products NVidia offers, it's about the behavior exhibited that must not be tolerated. They need stern correction, not banishment.

You're right too in all your counter points - I see those arguments too. I just don't agree with them in the sense that RTX was a rushed affair from the get-go. Nvidia failed to push enough of the industry forward or along with its technology. Even today the content on show is very sparse and a lot of it is not very impressive. I question the usefulness of us rewarding that with purchases.

Anyway. Continue the outrage. I'm with that one regardless

 

[Vya Domus]

2)When Nvidia 1650 75w came out most reviewers, not all to be fair, wrote or said that rx 570 has a better VFM. They didn't even bother to calculate what impact on annual cost the 100w (ranging from 85 to 120) higher consumption can have with "only" 3-4 hours gaming per day.

I just want to say that this point is stupid and will always remain stupid, I don't blame them for never focusing too much on that.

Lower electricity cost for these types of products is simply too small to justify a purchase like that, even if a 1650 saves you 20 bucks over a two year period or something like that it's not like you get a check at the moment you buy the card for it, that sum of money is spread out so thinly over that period of time that it's completely irrelevant to the overwhelming majority of people. That's why they don't bother to do it, it just doesn't matter.

And if you do care about that and you are counting pennies every month for your electrical bill, you probably have bigger problems on your hand.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I'm left sitting here wondering how many people are going to put words in my mouth. lol. I even said above it needs to go away and still other's interpretations are stuffed down my throat.

It's the way that some of your words came across that was troubling. Left an impression that you didn't seem to care and/or had just accepted this kind of thing as an unchangeable reality. If that was not your intention, then I apologize.

but FFS it's been going on forever and I highly doubt it will go away.

It will go away if we the people make it clear to every company in the world this kind of thing is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.

I'm surprised it didn't get deleted and proper news thread put up... maybe they stopped being curiously pissed about that, lol!

I interpret the thread continuing to exist as maybe a silent nod of approval. Perhaps W1zzard and/or the staff & mods feel that allowing this community to get outraged in such a way will be constructive. As was inferred in the OP, I expected things to get on the nasty side and the fanboy wars to be a thing. There's been some unpleasantness, but for the most part it has remained very civilized.

 

[jayseearr]

I've been ready to jump ship for a while now, and I'm more than willing to vote with my wallet, unfortunately the only alternative is AMD right now. As soon as I am confident their software team has their thumb out of their ass for good I'll gladly buy an AMD gpu. The trouble is I tried that with vega and it was hands down the worst gpu experience I've ever had. Everybody knows nvidia is slimy as fuck and alot of people would love to jump ship but are literally scared to. At the end of the day all of these corporate entities have their faults but nvidia is one of the few companies who can actually afford to do stupid shit like this so consistently. It will catch up with them though, i genuinely believe it's just a matter of time.

 

[EarthDog]

It's the way that some of your words came across that was troubling.

Troubling? Let me explain a bit...
I've just been in the game for too long... a 'call to arms' and how fruitless it is as the practice is still 'common' through all the previous times it happened (in general). I'm all onboard, don't get me wrong, but, it's a been there done that thing to me. Fresh faces certainly doesn't hurt.

So, in a way, I do accept this as unchangeable...do I care, sure I do... but I don't have the energy/time after fighting this fight for the past decade. People raise their torches and pitch forks, YT goes wild and it continues to happen behind the scenes and occasionally we see it blow up again in public. Most companies show more tact when doing this.

Your efforts are noble, and I hope it makes a difference, but history and current practices are telling. People like you have tried over the years and met with what we see today... the same behaviors . That doesn't mean one shouldn't try... but what makes this attempt different? Forum blows up, dust settles, it happens again down the road.

I interpret the thread

You're missing the news point, I think. Staff has been taking existing threads that are news and closing them/putting up a news thread instead (per 'the rules'). It's a shitty practice IMO. Here, I think this thread was left becuase TPU doesn't want their name attached to it and possibly losing their in with Nvidia (how DIDN'T this make news here is my question............ - did I miss it?). That said, I think TPU is too big, and has pockets deep enough to get around it if need be. But I digress on that OT point.

 

[Vayra86]

So, in a way, I do accept this as unchangeable...

This is also my point. Noise is not enough - wallets count.

Noise cán lead to wallets though.

 

[EarthDog]

This is also my point. Noise is not enough - wallets count.

Noise cán lead to wallets though.

That's a better way... but then you have AMD, who are also not angels....and have higher chance at driver issues. So, do you take the moral high ground and increase your chance at a sub-par experience because a company won't send samples to a major YT (even if the reasons are shiza?)? It's a tough call... honestly. I've accepted it, sadly. While it isn't as 'common' as some believe (and perhaps I stated) it happens more than people realize behind the scenes.

In fact, it just happened (similar situation, not exact) to my site with an AIB... The only 'power' we have as a smaller site is to not accept their hardware for launch day coverage and use others. Sometimes that doesn't work out and we're powerless.


EDIT: But seriously, did I miss this not making news at TPU? How is this NOT news? Is it fear on TPUs part or just the news team on break or did I miss an article on the front page about this?