AMD Ryzen 7 5800X

[Fleurious]

This is the CPU I want, max cores on a single CCD. Those temps are a bit concerning when compared to the 5600x but I doubt what I'll be using it for will fully load it for very long. Will be pairing it with a Noctua NH-D15s so I should be fine. I'll have to see how it plays out since I have lots of time before stock becomes readily available.

 

[AleksBedini]

Hello all,

This is my first post here in TPU and I hope everyone is good and safe!

I do not understand why lets say 3200Mhz memory is considered stock while 3600Mhz memory modules are considered overclocked ?

1. From a configuration perspective you only have to enable the respective DOCP setting in the BIOS, it does not matter if it is 3200 CL14 or 3600 CL16, the effort to set this up is identical!
2. For as long as IF in best case scenarios supports up to 2000 MHz 1:1 it means that either 1600(3200MHz) or 1800(3600MHz) Frequencies can be considered stock!

Also the higher the Frequency and the lower the timings the better 5000 series will work thus I just can not understand why RAM setup should be held back by that of previous gen CPU benchmarks

I do not claim to be an expert so please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[kapone32]

Hello all,

This is my first post here in TPU and I hope everyone is good and safe!

I do not understand why lets say 3200Mhz memory is considered stock while 3600Mhz memory modules are considered overclocked ?

1. From a configuration perspective you only have to enable the respective DOCP setting in the BIOS, it does not matter if it is 3200 CL14 or 3600 CL16, the effort to set this up is identical!
2. For as long as IF in best case scenarios supports up to 2000 MHz 1:1 it means that either 1600(3200MHz) or 1800(3600MHz) Frequencies can be considered stock!

Also the higher the Frequency and the lower the timings the better 5000 series will work thus I just can not understand why RAM setup should be held back by that of previous gen CPU benchmarks

I do not claim to be an expert so please correct me if I am wrong.

The 3200 spec is a guarantee sort of. As there are a plethora of MBs, RAM and CPUs the RAM spec has to cover all of the CPUs but then the MB must (sort of) have the RAM listed on the QVL for approval of that specification.

 

[bug]

Hello all,

This is my first post here in TPU and I hope everyone is good and safe!

I do not understand why lets say 3200Mhz memory is considered stock while 3600Mhz memory modules are considered overclocked ?

1. From a configuration perspective you only have to enable the respective DOCP setting in the BIOS, it does not matter if it is 3200 CL14 or 3600 CL16, the effort to set this up is identical!
2. For as long as IF in best case scenarios supports up to 2000 MHz 1:1 it means that either 1600(3200MHz) or 1800(3600MHz) Frequencies can be considered stock!

Also the higher the Frequency and the lower the timings the better 5000 series will work thus I just can not understand why RAM setup should be held back by that of previous gen CPU benchmarks

I do not claim to be an expert so please correct me if I am wrong.

3200 is the best JEDEC has standardized. Anything above that, being not standard may or may not work, depending on your motherboard+RAM combo. Being non-standard, you can't guarantee it works unless testing each motherboard and RAM module. That's why makers publish QVL lists. They're always a subset of what actually works, since nobody can test everything, but you step outside of that at your own risk.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Hello all,

This is my first post here in TPU and I hope everyone is good and safe!

I do not understand why lets say 3200Mhz memory is considered stock while 3600Mhz memory modules are considered overclocked ?

1. From a configuration perspective you only have to enable the respective DOCP setting in the BIOS, it does not matter if it is 3200 CL14 or 3600 CL16, the effort to set this up is identical!
2. For as long as IF in best case scenarios supports up to 2000 MHz 1:1 it means that either 1600(3200MHz) or 1800(3600MHz) Frequencies can be considered stock!

Also the higher the Frequency and the lower the timings the better 5000 series will work thus I just can not understand why RAM setup should be held back by that of previous gen CPU benchmarks

I do not claim to be an expert so please correct me if I am wrong.

You should also consider that the integrated memory controller and infinity fabric are on the CPU die, so are also a bit of a lottery as to how high they will clock without issues, they obviously set stock speeds at levels they(AMD) are confident every chip can do.

 

[Mussels]

Hello all,

This is my first post here in TPU and I hope everyone is good and safe!

I do not understand why lets say 3200Mhz memory is considered stock while 3600Mhz memory modules are considered overclocked ?

1. From a configuration perspective you only have to enable the respective DOCP setting in the BIOS, it does not matter if it is 3200 CL14 or 3600 CL16, the effort to set this up is identical!
2. For as long as IF in best case scenarios supports up to 2000 MHz 1:1 it means that either 1600(3200MHz) or 1800(3600MHz) Frequencies can be considered stock!

Also the higher the Frequency and the lower the timings the better 5000 series will work thus I just can not understand why RAM setup should be held back by that of previous gen CPU benchmarks

I do not claim to be an expert so please correct me if I am wrong.

Every modern CPU has an integrated memory controller, that has a default verified speed it must run at, or you can warranty it.
the 5800x has that speed at 3200Mhz - anything beyond that is possible with overclocking via your motherboard, but if it doesnt work you cannot claim warranty or get technical support to help with the issue.
Anything above 1600 IF and 3200 RAM is overclocking, because AMD say so. Simple as that.

Overclockers have discovered that 3800Mhz is the best most people can achieve with 3600 being something 99% of people can achieve, and thats how we have a "stock" value that everyone can get, and goals that people try and overclock to reach with no guarantee of success (3600-3800)

DOCP is an asus only feature, that enables XMP on the RAM (think automatic settings, but includes voltage control)


As far as benchmarks go, if you don't use the same module of ram and settings between every platform then you arent even benchmarking, you're just competing with meaningless overclocks because every single stick of ram will overclock different, on every single CPU... so what use is benchmarks at settings that none of the people reading it can achieve?
If 3200Mhz is the officially stated clocks AMD supports, then 3200 should be benchmarked - and anything faster should be thrown into an overclocking section as a "with effort, you MAY get this" option

 

[AleksBedini]

Hi all,

Thank you for the prompt response.

I understand what you are saying and that 3200 is standardized by AMD compared to 3600 but if we refer to lets say my motherboard's official site both 3200 and 3600 are mentioned with an (OC) as the image shows below

At the same time in AMD's official site the memory speed is stated as "up to 3200MHz"

Please keep in mind that according to AMD's official page the maximum CPU Clock speed is 4.7 GHz

While benchmarking my PBO configured 5800x reaches 5.01 GHz on 7 cores and 4.9 on 1 core, from this review I can see the clock speed exceeding what AMD states but when it comes to RAM speed we should not exceed what AMD states.
I can not understand the double standard applied in this case especially considering the QVL list of an X motherboard contains Memory speeds higher than that of 3600 MHz.

Correct me if I am wrong, In my opinion the AMD stated memory speed should be seen as a minimum value while the reviewers should contribute on finding out the highest stable memory clock and then proceed with the benchmark procedure.

 

[AleksBedini]

Every modern CPU has an integrated memory controller, that has a default verified speed it must run at, or you can warranty it.
the 5800x has that speed at 3200Mhz - anything beyond that is possible with overclocking via your motherboard, but if it doesn't work you cannot claim warranty or get technical support to help with the issue.
Anything above 1600 IF and 3200 RAM is overclocking, because AMD say so. Simple as that.

Overclockers have discovered that 3800Mhz is the best most people can achieve with 3600 being something 99% of people can achieve, and that's how we have a "stock" value that everyone can get, and goals that people try and overclock to reach with no guarantee of success (3600-3800)

DOCP is an asus only feature, that enables XMP on the RAM (think automatic settings, but includes voltage control)


As far as benchmarks go, if you don't use the same module of ram and settings between every platform then you arent even benchmarking, you're just competing with meaningless overclocks because every single stick of ram will overclock different, on every single CPU... so what use is benchmarks at settings that none of the people reading it can achieve?
If 3200Mhz is the officially stated clocks AMD supports, then 3200 should be benchmarked - and anything faster should be thrown into an overclocking section as a "with effort, you MAY get this" option

Allow me to disagree on the last part where you are forced to benchmark with stock memory speeds, like I said above the contribute of reviewers would be to find out the highest stable Memory speeds and benchmark with the best possible in order for us to know the potential of a specific CPU RAM speed combination. Let me put it this way, if you believe we should stick to the stock speed stated by AMD why are all the reviewers allowing their CPU speeds to surpass 4.7 MHz, they should stick to safe speeds publicized by AMD official site !

if you don't use the same module of ram and settings between every platform then you arent even benchmarking, you're just competing with meaningless overclocks
If what I suggest is applied to every CPU generation/platform then the benchmarks will indicate the maximum potential for each generation/platform while using the actual principle the benchmarks will reflect just stock performance without revealing the full potential of a platform!

 

[bug]

Hi all,

Thank you for the prompt response.

I understand what you are saying and that 3200 is standardized by AMD compared to 3600 but if we refer to lets say my motherboard's official site both 3200 and 3600 are mentioned with an (OC) as the image shows below
View attachment 187786


At the same time in AMD's official site the memory speed is stated as "up to 3200MHz"



View attachment 187787



Please keep in mind that according to AMD's official page the maximum CPU Clock speed is 4.7 GHz

While benchmarking my PBO configured 5800x reaches 5.01 GHz on 7 cores and 4.9 on 1 core, from this review I can see the clock speed exceeding what AMD states but when it comes to RAM speed we should not exceed what AMD states.
I can not understand the double standard applied in this case especially considering the QVL list of an X motherboard contains Memory speeds higher than that of 3600 MHz.

Correct me if I am wrong, In my opinion the AMD stated memory speed should be seen as a minimum value while the reviewers should contribute on finding out the highest stable memory clock and then proceed with the benchmark procedure.

I don't think you actually understand, since you mentioned the one wrong answer. AMD does not standardize DDR4 speeds.

To answer your question, that board is based on X470. X470 was released with support for DDR4-2933. That is probably what was the maximum standardized by JEDEC at the time. Anything above 2933, not being standard back then, is thus supported in overclocking mode.

 

[AleksBedini]

I don't think you actually understand, since you mentioned the one wrong answer. AMD does not standardize DDR4 speeds.

To answer your question, that board is based on X470. X470 was released with support for DDR4-2933. That is probably what was the maximum standardized by JEDEC at the time. Anything above 2933, not being standard back then, is thus supported in overclocking mode.

You shred some light there, thank you bug, what I should keep from this is that only the motherboard vendor can determine what are the stock and what are the oc speeds right?

 

[bug]

You shred some light there, thank you bug, what I should keep from this is that only the motherboard vendor can determine what are the stock and what are the oc speeds right?

Nope.
The gist is there's an organization that standardizes DDR speeds, timings and such. When a memory controller* comes out, it can only offer official support for whatever JEDEC has already standardized.
Motherboard builders will test faster DDR sticks and offer support for then in overclocked mode; the maximum DDR speed that's guaranteed to work is still dictated by the memory controller. But since RAM settings aren't random, if you test a bunch of sticks, chances are more sticks will also work (and that's what happens in practice), but the motherboard maker cannot list support for those.
Even shorter: what's standardized is guaranteed to work. Anything above that, you need to your homework.

*memory controller is in the CPU these days, but the motherboard also matters. If you stick a newer CPU in an older mobo that doesn't deliver clean enough power, it's possible you won't be able to run the memory at the maximum speeds the memory controller supports.

 

[AleksBedini]

Nope.
The gist is there's an organization that standardizes DDR speeds, timings and such. When a memory controller* comes out, it can only offer official support for whatever JEDEC has already standardized.
Motherboard builders will test faster DDR sticks and offer support for then in overclocked mode; the maximum DDR speed that's guaranteed to work is still dictated by the memory controller. But since RAM settings aren't random, if you test a bunch of sticks, chances are more sticks will also work (and that's what happens in practice), but the motherboard maker cannot list support for those.
Even shorter: what's standardized is guaranteed to work. Anything above that, you need to your homework.

*memory controller is in the CPU these days, but the motherboard also matters. If you stick a newer CPU in an older mobo that doesn't deliver clean enough power, it's possible you won't be able to run the memory at the maximum speeds the memory controller supports.

Got it, I wonder if the fact that almost all 5800x processors are super stable with 3600MHz memory speeds indicates JEDEC poor job?

 

[bug]

Got it, I wonder if the fact that almost all 5800x processors are super stable with 3600MHz memory speeds indicates JEDEC poor job?

JEDEC standards (or standards in general) are supposed to cater to multiple parties. As such, they have to be conservative.

And actually Ryzen isn't that stable at 3600. There's plenty of threads just on TPU from people being unable to reach those speeds. Corsair memory in particular in known to cause trouble. I'd say 80-90% can reach those speeds, no problem, especially if using memory kits geared towards AMD. Whether that's stable enough for you, I wouldn't know.

Intel has worked around this by devising XMP. That's like a spec for faster memory, but only for Intel CPUs. Memory kits have no trouble running above JEDEC standards, if they implement XMP. AMD, sadly, has no equivalent, so users are taking a bigger gamble.

 

[Athlonite]

At the same time in AMD's official site the memory speed is stated as "up to 3200MHz"

That's because of the silicon lottery (in an ideal world all cpu's would be equal in quality but they're not) AMD pretty much guarantees that each CPU can atleast reach 3200MHz (1600MHz) and anything over that is a hit n miss affair to get running stable depending on the class or quality of the CPU ie: Gold, Silver, Bronze. The better the quality the better able to reach higher speeds with the IMC without having to resort to higher Voltage levels to maintain stability like this a Gold quality CPU may only require 1.35V to reach 3600MHz (1800MHz) stable but a Bronze class may require 1.4V oe 1.45V to do the same

 

[Mussels]

Hi all,

Thank you for the prompt response.

I understand what you are saying and that 3200 is standardized by AMD compared to 3600 but if we refer to lets say my motherboard's official site both 3200 and 3600 are mentioned with an (OC) as the image shows below
View attachment 187786


At the same time in AMD's official site the memory speed is stated as "up to 3200MHz"



View attachment 187787



Please keep in mind that according to AMD's official page the maximum CPU Clock speed is 4.7 GHz

While benchmarking my PBO configured 5800x reaches 5.01 GHz on 7 cores and 4.9 on 1 core, from this review I can see the clock speed exceeding what AMD states but when it comes to RAM speed we should not exceed what AMD states.
I can not understand the double standard applied in this case especially considering the QVL list of an X motherboard contains Memory speeds higher than that of 3600 MHz.

Correct me if I am wrong, In my opinion the AMD stated memory speed should be seen as a minimum value while the reviewers should contribute on finding out the highest stable memory clock and then proceed with the benchmark procedure.

Your CPU's max supported and your motherboards max supported dont have to match, simple as that.


A B450 board can run zen, zen+, zen 2, zen 3, and their APU variants - and probably a bunch of the athlon flavours as well.
All their max memory speeds vary

I'm not sure where or how you're getting confused
Lets use my system as an example

CPU: max rated speed of 3200
mobo: QLV ram upto 4600 (not at 1:1 IF)
Ram: 3600

So with my overclock to 3800, the CPU and RAM are out of spec so I have no ability to claim warranty or tech support on those items at this speed
The motherboard, if i had that insane DDR4 4600 RAM in the support list, they'd have to provide me tech support and potentially a warranty if it didnt work.

 

[Zach_01]

FYI, DRAM speed capability is not determined directly from CPU cores quality (bronze, silver, gold, platinum). The memory controller is on a separate die the I/ODie (or SoC) and thats on a Global Foundries 14nm process node. Totally different from the core 7nm dies. Yes there's the IF interconnection that goes into the cores but that is more of a CPU substrate matter and not much a core die quality one.
My CPU is bronze rated and I can run 3600+(1800+)MHz on 1:1:1 relation with no issues. Its a matter of CPU substrate/RAM/SoC/board memory traces and of course board BIOS combination. You cant really pinpoint it to CPU quality alone, if not at all.

 

[bug]

FYI, DRAM speed capability is not determined directly from CPU cores quality (bronze, silver, gold, platinum). The memory controller is on a separate die the I/ODie (or SoC) and thats on a Global Foundries 14nm process node. Totally different from the core 7nm dies. Yes there's the IF interconnection that goes into the cores but that is more of a CPU substrate matter and not much a core die quality one.
My CPU is bronze rated and I can run 3600+(1800+)MHz on 1:1:1 relation with no issues. Its a matter of CPU substrate/RAM/SoC/board memory traces and of course board BIOS combination. You cant really pinpoint it to CPU quality alone, if not at all.

Well, if the rest of the CPU can't run with IF 1:1, it doesn't help you much that the memory controller can.
What you're getting in practice is a sort of least common denominator.

 

[AleksBedini]

That's because of the silicon lottery (in an ideal world all cpu's would be equal in quality but they're not) AMD pretty much guarantees that each CPU can atleast reach 3200MHz (1600MHz) and anything over that is a hit n miss affair to get running stable depending on the class or quality of the CPU ie: Gold, Silver, Bronze. The better the quality the better able to reach higher speeds with the IMC without having to resort to higher Voltage levels to maintain stability like this a Gold quality CPU may only require 1.35V to reach 3600MHz (1800MHz) stable but a Bronze class may require 1.4V oe 1.45V to do the same

That is what I also said in my comment #132 quote:
"Correct me if I am wrong, In my opinion the AMD stated memory speed should be seen as a minimum value while the reviewers should contribute on finding out the highest stable memory clock and then proceed with the benchmark procedure."

I took it even further by saying that if AMD states a minimum memory speed which should work in every single processor it does not mean the reviewer community should stick on that stock speed on the contrary it would be great if the Reviewers community does the benchmarks with the highest memory speeds supported by the silicon they got!

 

[AleksBedini]

Your CPU's max supported and your motherboards max supported dont have to match, simple as that.


A B450 board can run zen, zen+, zen 2, zen 3, and their APU variants - and probably a bunch of the athlon flavours as well.
All their max memory speeds vary

I'm not sure where or how you're getting confused
Lets use my system as an example

CPU: max rated speed of 3200
mobo: QLV ram upto 4600 (not at 1:1 IF)
Ram: 3600

So with my overclock to 3800, the CPU and RAM are out of spec so I have no ability to claim warranty or tech support on those items at this speed
The motherboard, if i had that insane DDR4 4600 RAM in the support list, they'd have to provide me tech support and potentially a warranty if it didnt work.

Thanks to your explanation I am not confused anymore : yet not much changed regarding my point.

My point is that the reviewer community might be lucky enough to receive a gold class sample of a CPU but not taking advantage of it simply by sticking to stock memory clocks. The results will be held back from what potentially that sample could have achieved. Also being able to reach higher memory speeds is an improvement of a specific generation compared to the previous one which in my humble opinion also needs to be exposed on the benchmark results while at the moment if we see this review one of the reasons the RAM speed is 3200 is to be on pair with the previous generations.

As for the example you presented you have a memory rated at 3600 MHz and trying to achieve speeds higher than that something that is not what I am talking about. I am just saying that the reviewer community should not focus that much on the JEDEC or AMD stated memory speeds and benchmark lets say a 5800x with 3200MHz rated modules while the 5800x sample they got can be pretty stable on 3600 MHz.

 

[AleksBedini]

FYI, DRAM speed capability is not determined directly from CPU cores quality (bronze, silver, gold, platinum). The memory controller is on a separate die the I/ODie (or SoC) and thats on a Global Foundries 14nm process node. Totally different from the core 7nm dies. Yes there's the IF interconnection that goes into the cores but that is more of a CPU substrate matter and not much a core die quality one.
My CPU is bronze rated and I can run 3600+(1800+)MHz on 1:1:1 relation with no issues. Its a matter of CPU substrate/RAM/SoC/board memory traces and of course board BIOS combination. You cant really pinpoint it to CPU quality alone, if not at all.

I see, in fact I am afraid I have not yet achieved that 1:1:1 ratio with my C7H as the BIOS menu is a mess.
Any idea where I can find an OC guide for C7H and 5800x ?

 

[bug]

Thanks to your explanation I am not confused anymore : yet not much changed regarding my point.

My point is that the reviewer community might be lucky enough to receive a gold class sample of a CPU but not taking advantage of it simply by sticking to stock memory clocks. The results will be held back from what potentially that sample could have achieved. Also being able to reach higher memory speeds is an improvement of a specific generation compared to the previous one which in my humble opinion also needs to be exposed on the benchmark results while at the moment if we see this review one of the reasons the RAM speed is 3200 is to be on pair with the previous generations.

As for the example you presented you have a memory rated at 3600 MHz and trying to achieve speeds higher than that something that is not what I am talking about. I am just saying that the reviewer community should not focus that much on the JEDEC or AMD stated memory speeds and benchmark lets say a 5800x with 3200MHz rated modules while the 5800x sample they got can be pretty stable on 3600 MHz.

Stock is everything that's guaranteed to work, so it's very important reviewers concentrate on that. Reviews also look at overclocking, but always stipulate that ymmv in that regard.
Only the larger community can decide whether an overclock is a safe bet or a rare occurrence. Because you need a large sample to determine that and review sites don't have that.

 

[Mussels]

All you're saying is "i want the reviews overclocked!"

and the response is: thats useless to absolutely everyone, because every review will have different results and different opinions on the hardware

Wanna compare an RTX 3090 to an RTX 3080? Oh nevermind results are useless because the reviews didnt use the same hardware, sorry.

 

[AleksBedini]

Stock is everything that's guaranteed to work, so it's very important reviewers concentrate on that. Reviews also look at overclocking, but always stipulate that ymmv in that regard.
Only the larger community can decide whether an overclock is a safe bet or a rare occurrence. Because you need a large sample to determine that and review sites don't have that.

So lets say I purchase a 3600MHz rated RAM kit and mount it in my C7H with a 5800x, enter BIOS and set the default DOCP settings, would that be considered an overclock?

 

[AleksBedini]

All you're saying is "i want the reviews overclocked!"

and the response is: thats useless to absolutely everyone, because every review will have different results and different opinions on the hardware

Yes I understand the result between reviewers might differ but that will be due to silicon lottery right? But even in that case I do not believe the results will be that randomly different neither that they will be useless to us the viewers, on the contrary we will have a much more clear picture of a specific generation's potential

 

[Mussels]

So lets say I purchase a 3600MHz rated RAM kit and mount it in my C7H with a 5800x, enter BIOS and set the default DOCP settings, would that be considered an overclock?

For the RAM, no. For the CPU and motherboard, yes. From that mobos page. Do you understand that the different parts have different rated speeds, so for one it may be an overclock yet for another withing stock limits?

Buying DDR 2133 ram and overclocking to 3200 on your theoretical system is stock for the CPU, but overclocking for the mobo and RAM.

You're after overclocking results, not a review. I don't understand why you can't see those are two entirely different things.