Input lag is killing me

[Lkzz]

OP means Opening Poster. In this thread that is you they are referring to.

Thanks mate!

You dont think that Vsync can be related to input lag issues?
We've got one example of input lag free with Vsync off at 300FPS

If OP can stick Vsync on in that title and see what happens, we may have our lag cause... Vsync implementations can be shitty, and its an old 60Hz display that could have more input lag than more modern displays
Edit: Wait, you dont even know what vsync does? Vsync just makes your frame rate match your refresh rate, with its various implementations choosing how to deal with the situation when the frame rate drops below refresh rate. Does it allow any number, but increase input lag? Does it only work by dropping it in half? - the answer is "the game devs choose"
You can then override Vsync with the nvidia control panel choosing Nvidias Vsync, Fast Vsync or Gsync (if you have a Gsync screen)

So at this stage... get your working title, try with vsync on and off. We dont give a crap if its slower (it will be, when you drop from 300FPS to 60FPS) - we need to know if it triggers the SAME input lag as the other titles

And while we're at it, how did malwarebytes go?

Well about the Malwarebytes I used and it identified about 8 erros, it fixed it, but didn't change anything at all. Okay I will turn the VSync on, but you want me to do it on NVIDIA control panel or on the game? And I dont have a Gsync screen, but I will try to run with VSync on.

 

[Mussels]

I can try to turn Vsync on, but everytime I do this, I lost some framerates, but anyway I can try. Just for the record, what is OP? Also I noticed that when playing on window mode the lag is even harder, I don't know if it's because of the difference of the sens, but especially on CSGO was literally impossible to play, while on Valorant I could feel the difference, it was a little harder, but at least I could play.

Yes, you 'lose frames' thats the point of vsync

all those extra frames are not displayed on your screen anyway... all frames above 60 are discarded, with that screen.
Some people choose to run their systems that way, but it can cause judder, tearing, and makes your system run at 100% while gaming

i want you to try all of the vsync options
In game Vsync on vs off

Then turn in game off, and try nvidias On and Fast options
you need to restart the game for the nvidia options to work, between changes

What you need to do is record your experiences with each setting, write them down for each test.

Then we'll need you to go to another game you noticed the lag in and do the same thing, and we can find out if a certain setting is the cause of your lag.

 

[Lkzz]

Yes, you 'lose frames' thats the point of vsync

all those extra frames are not displayed on your screen anyway... all frames above 60 are discarded, with that screen.
Some people choose to run their systems that way, but it can cause judder, tearing, and makes your system run at 100% while gaming

i want you to try all of the vsync options
In game Vsync on vs off

Then turn in game off, and try nvidias On and Fast options

Well Valorant is running at almost 100%, so its worth a shot. I don't remember if Vsync was causing Lag, but one of the first options I received was to turn the Vsync off, it certainly cause this "Framerate drops", but I will see if the lag persists. And okay, I will try to run the game with Vsync on and off, and then I will change on control panel, thanks for the help!

 

[Vayra86]

I can try to turn Vsync on, but everytime I do this, I lost some framerates, but anyway I can try. Just for the record, what is OP? Also I noticed that when playing on window mode the lag is even harder, I don't know if it's because of the difference of the sens, but especially on CSGO was literally impossible to play, while on Valorant I could feel the difference, it was a little harder, but at least I could play.

You SHOULD be losing framerate. When you run your games at uncapped FPS the franetimes will vary constantly so you are never getting smooth frame delivery.
On its own, uncapped FPS shouldnt cause input lag, but it does present maximum (CPU) load and thus maximum power heat and any other process running will have an impact on performance this way.

I would suggest using Adaptive vsync in Nv control panel, OR using a hard FPS cap at say 119-121 FPS (set this in Rivatuner(RTSS) which comes with MSI afterburner.

 

[Mussels]

I would recommend Nvidias Fast Vsync, with Nvidias Framerate limiter set to 120FPS for "esports" level use on a 60Hz monitor for a decently powerful system like Lkzz has

That should give you the best of both worlds with low input latency and your hardware not hitting 100% - but its a complicated setup (it should be always safe with low latency, but theres a chance it could cause issues in some games) and something we should try *after* we find the source of the lag

 

[Lkzz]

I would recommend Nvidias Fast Vsync, with Nvidias Framerate limiter set to 120FPS

That should give you the best of both worlds with low input latency and your hardware not hitting 100% - but its a complicated setup (it should be always safe with low latency, but theres a chance it could cause issues in some games) and something we should try *after* we find the source of the lag

Okay, so first I will try to play both games with VSync on and off, and then turning the Vsync on and off on the NVIDIA Control Panel. Also provide the screenshots with more relevant HWInfo data and the Task Manager from the CPU part. Sorry for typing this many times, but I just want to make sure and remember everything that I have to do.

 

[Mussels]

Okay, so first I will try to play both games with VSync on and off, and then turning the Vsync on and off on the NVIDIA Control Panel. Also provide the screenshots with more relevant HWInfo data and the Task Manager from the CPU part. Sorry for typing this many times, but I just want to make sure and remember everything that I have to do.

Hwinfo gave us the info we needed
1. Your temperatures at 100% load are safe
2. we spotted you were running Vsync off, loading your hardware as much as possible

Right now focus on your Vsync testing, but feel free to leave Hwinfo running and check out the difference in temperatures between Vsync off and on... i think you'll be surprised

 

[Lkzz]

Hwinfo gave us the info we needed
1. Your temperatures at 100% load are safe
2. we spotted you were running Vsync off, loading your hardware as much as possible

Right now focus on your Vsync testing, but feel free to leave Hwinfo running and check out the difference in temperatures between Vsync off and on... i think you'll be surprised

Sure, thanks!

 

[milewski1015]

I've never played Valorant, but 100% CPU usage on a single core sounds pretty extreme to me - especially when coupled with that maximum 69% GPU utilization. Something is definitely off there. I can't quite believe Valorant is that poorly optimized given how new a game it is. And given the low GPU utilization it's not just a high FPS CPU bottleneck either - the GPU is clearly not being fed properly here.

Yeah, it's been about a month since I played but I don't ever recall seeing a single core pegged at 100% or close to it on my 2600. It's pretty well optimized from what I understand.

Did installing Malwarebytes actually deactivate Windows Defender though? It shouldn't be running at all if Windows recognizes another AV program installed.

I'm not sure it will automatically deactivate Windows Defender. I believe MB's real-time protection has to be enabled for it to even possibly do that, which if I remember correctly is only available in the paid version (although they do provide you with a free Premium trial upon initial installation). That said, you hear horror stories about people having multiple AV programs running at the same time a lot so I'd imagine Windows Defender is still going strong unless manually disabled.

And before running the Malwarebytes I deactivated the Windows Firewall.

Windows Firewall is just a subset of the Windows Defender security suite. You need to go into the Virus and Threat Protection settings and disable those as well.

 

[Lkzz]

Yeah, it's been about a month since I played but I don't ever recall seeing a single core pegged at 100% or close to it on my 2600. It's pretty well optimized from what I understand.


I'm not sure it will automatically deactivate Windows Defender. I believe MB's real-time protection has to be enabled for it to even possibly do that, which if I remember correctly is only available in the paid version (although they do provide you with a free Premium trial upon initial installation). That said, you hear horror stories about people having multiple AV programs running at the same time a lot so I'd imagine Windows Defender is still going strong unless manually disabled.


Windows Firewall is just a subset of the Windows Defender security suite. You need to go into the Virus and Threat Protection settings and disable those as well.
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Yes, that's exactly what I did. And I got the 14 days free trial of the MB. And about the Valorant, is there anything I can do to lower this values?

 

[milewski1015]

And about the Valorant, is there anything I can do to lower this values?

Hopefully VSync capping your frames will help limit a single core of your CPU getting hammered while playing Valorant.

I did some Googling in regards to the AV_WdFilter!MpAsyncScanEnqueue. It appears WdFilter is the main kernel component of Windows Defender. Windows Update shows you're up to date correct?

And you mentioned you've reinstalled Windows a few times also right? It's installed on the SSD now? (I'd imagine it is since you're still able to use the system after disconnecting the mechanical drive). Maybe try opening an elevated command prompt (type cmd in the search bar, right click on Command Prompt and select Run as Administrator) and running sfc /scannow command.

 

[Lkzz]

Hopefully VSync capping your frames will help limit a single core of your CPU getting hammered while playing Valorant.

I did some Googling in regards to the AV_WdFilter!MpAsyncScanEnqueue. It appears WdFilter is the main kernel component of Windows Defender. Windows Update shows you're up to date correct?
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And you mentioned you've reinstalled Windows a few times also right? It's installed on the SSD now? (I'd imagine it is since you're still able to use the system after disconnecting the mechanical drive). Maybe try opening an elevated command prompt (type cmd in the search bar, right click on Command Prompt and select Run as Administrator) and running sfc /scannow command.

Yes it says I'm up to date, and it's installed on the SSD, I will try this cmd thing

 

[Lkzz]

Results:

Valorant:
VSYNC (Game) off: Playing normally
VSYNC (Game) on: It feels pretty normal,
VSYNC (Control pannel) on: A little bit laggy but I could play
VSYNC (Control pannel) fast: Seems normal too
Obs: I just tested on the practice mode, but it was kinda normal and I didn't lost any FPS

CSGO:
VSYNC (Control pannel) off: Laggy
VSYNC (Control pannel) on: Laggy
VSYNC (Control pannel) fast: Also laggy
Obs: Without any framerates, I played for about 5 minutes with more than 400fps. But still very laggy

Just one question: Do I have to restart the game everytime I change the settings on control panel? Because if I have to then I did the test wrong. Also before I was using the first option on control panel, I was something to adapt to the 3d game settings or something like that.

Can you guys send me the best options for the NVIDIA control panel? I might have to change some of them...

Hopefully VSync capping your frames will help limit a single core of your CPU getting hammered while playing Valorant.

I did some Googling in regards to the AV_WdFilter!MpAsyncScanEnqueue. It appears WdFilter is the main kernel component of Windows Defender. Windows Update shows you're up to date correct?
View attachment 196995

And you mentioned you've reinstalled Windows a few times also right? It's installed on the SSD now? (I'd imagine it is since you're still able to use the system after disconnecting the mechanical drive). Maybe try opening an elevated command prompt (type cmd in the search bar, right click on Command Prompt and select Run as Administrator) and running sfc /scannow command.

Also I forgot to say, I used this sfc/scannow command and didn't find any errors...

 

[Mussels]

For the nvidia control panel changes, you have to restart the game so you'll need to retest those
Fast Vsync with a 120FPS cap (another setting in nvidias control panel) in CSGO should give great behaviour


what happens from here on is you need to find more games with and without the issue and compare whats the same and different

As an example CSGO is an older title thats much easier to render, so it should be EASIER for the system to run and not harder, making less laggy... so somethings unusual there, and is a clue. We dont know what it means until we get more clues (for example you could find out all the games with issues run DirectX 9, or they're all steam games, etc)

 

[Lkzz]

For the nvidia control panel changes, you have to restart the game so you'll need to retest those
Fast Vsync with a 120FPS cap (another setting in nvidias control panel) in CSGO should give great behaviour


what happens from here on is you need to find more games with and without the issue and compare whats the same and different

As an example CSGO is an older title thats much easier to render, so it should be EASIER for the system to run and not harder, making less laggy... so somethings unusual there, and is a clue. We dont know what it means until we get more clues (for example you could find out all the games with issues run DirectX 9, or they're all steam games, etc)

Okay so tomorrow I will retest the control panel changes, and I'm going to install more games on Steam to see if it has the same problems. The problem is that I don't have any similar games to CSGO. I think I will test on Apex Legends and see.

 

[Mussels]

test whatever you can, even different game types

see what you can think of that is in common - i made that comment earlier about steam, because if it only happens with steam games it could be the steam overlay


Is there anything like that you have that pops up you can think of? in game recording software, overlays for steam, social programs etc? even that garbage that some motherboards install with 'sonar' software to show where sounds come from

 

[Lkzz]

test whatever you can, even different game types

see what you can think of that is in common - i made that comment earlier about steam, because if it only happens with steam games it could be the steam overlay


Is there anything like that you have that pops up you can think of? in game recording software, overlays for steam, social programs etc? even that garbage that some motherboards install with 'sonar' software to show where sounds come from

Man I really dont know, but Valorant it's not from Steam and it's normal, so maybe you're right. I tested running the game without the Overlay Steam and didn't change anything, but I will make this test again. But I agree with you, now thinking better might be something related to the Steam, and what is this "Sonar software? I've never heard about it. And after we figure this out, I still have the problem about the BSOD that I don't know what to do anymore...

 

[Mussels]

one problem at a time, that sonar software shipped with motherboards. it's a way of asking you if there is anything running that might affect things, because without actually being there and seeing the system i cant ask every question - its upto you to provide all the information you can

The BSOD we can solve over time, take a photo of the error when it crashes

 

[Lkzz]

one problem at a time, that sonar software shipped with motherboards. it's a way of asking you if there is anything running that might affect things, because without actually being there and seeing the system i cant ask every question - its upto you to provide all the information you can

The BSOD we can solve over time, take a photo of the error when it crashes

Okay I will send a pic when it happens. And how can I know if I'm running this thing here? And it can really cause this lag?

 

[Mussels]

Okay I will send a pic when it happens. And how can I know if I'm running this thing here? And it can really cause this lag?

well it'd be a running program in your tray and on your screen... only you know this info, not me

 

[Lkzz]

One of the BSOD messages right after I started the PC. Also I’m having a problem that is really weird, every time I try to turn off or restart my computer, the screen goes black like if it was off, but all the RGBs on the PC are on, such as the fans that still running. And I received 3 different BSOD codes. Also about this problem I uninstalled the AI Suite 3 and seems to be fixed.

Results now restarting the game after making any changes:
Valorant:
VSYNC (Game) off: Playing normally
VSYNC (Game) on: Didn't make much difference
VSYNC (Control pannel) on: Almost impossible to play and running at 60fps
VSYNC (Control pannel) fast: A little bit laggy, but at least I could play
VSYNC (Control pannel) adaptive (half refresh rate): Running at 30fps, impossible to play


CSGO (With Steam overlay diactivated):
VSYNC (Control pannel) off: Laggy
VSYNC (Control pannel) on: Same as off
VSYNC (Control pannel) fast: Also laggy but a little bit harder
VSYNC (Control pannel) adaptive (half refresh rate): Same as on/off
Obs: Without any framerates, I played for about 5 minutes with more than 400fps. But still very laggy

* I'm installing another Steam games to run more tests

Here's the printscreen with the CPU part @Valantar, if you have any doubts with the parts in Portuguese, please let me know

 

[Mussels]

You may be right that it was AI suite (this is the sort of program you should have said was running in the background) (the workaround is to disable virtualisation support of the CPU, apparently)
AI suite stopped the BSODS? AI suite is a good example of something you should have said was installed, as its an overclcocking tool

 

[Lkzz]

You may be right that it was AI suite (this is the sort of program you should have said was running in the background) (the workaround is to disable virtualisation support of the CPU, apparently)
AI suite stopped the BSODS? AI suite is a good example of something you should have said was installed, as its an overclcocking tool

Okay, how can I disable virtualisation support of the CPU? And I didn't say anything because I had it installed just to change the speed of the fans, and even after I dinstalled it I still have the BSOD problems, but about the part which I turn off my PC and the fans still running I think it was solved. Today or tomorrow I will try to change my watercooler, I have a Corsair H105 and I bought a MasterLiquid 360L. But I'm pretty sure that this BSOD problems, and maybe even this input lag (Which I need to test on other Steam games) are being caused by something on the SSD or maybe my Power Supply. However, if anyone have another tests that I can make just to be sure, please let me know...

 

[Mussels]

you dont need or want to disable that, since you got rid of AI suite (good, its pretty crappy) - you should change the fans in the BIOS.
Damn, you bought a bigass cooler.

i suppose after you rebuild with that cooler, we'll go through your BIOS settings

Watch these videos for the how and why of where to orient that cooler to avoid air bubbles giving you problems (noise, pump dying faster than it should) - ideally top mount it as an exhaust

 

[Lkzz]

you dont need or want to disable that, since you got rid of AI suite (good, its pretty crappy) - you should change the fans in the BIOS.
Damn, you bought a bigass cooler.

i suppose after you rebuild with that cooler, we'll go through your BIOS settings

Watch this video for the how and why of where to orient that cooler to avoid air bubbles giving you problems (noise, pump dying faster than it should) - ideally top mount it as an exhaust

Sure man, thanks a lot for the help! Since I bought my Corsair H105 about 7 years ago I wanted to buy something better now, that's why I got this MasterLiquid, I just hope that I don't have any more hardware problems, otherwise I'll have to spend more money, probably on a new SSD or a Power supply.