PLEASE HELP - should change my entire system or just upgrade

[bobbybluz]

There's a great TPU forum for those of us still playing with the X79 platform. It's surprising that considering it's nearly 10 years old it still remains a viable option for some of us today. X79 and/or rampage IV OC'ing thread for those of us still left.... | TechPowerUp Forums

 

[Colddecked]

That's ok for you not to like my recommendations, we are all trying to help given our own perspectives and opinions, what works for you might not work for me, or for the OP in this case. I do not claim to have the "best" or only answer, just what my experience tells me. I have built over 2,000 systems for customers in the last 30 years, I am still doing it so I must be doing something right .

I'm not doubting your ability to build systems and those parts would certainly make a really nice PC, and OP would love it no doubt. I just don't see the need for a 5800x/x570 combo, as its not very cost effective. Yes, its a work PC, but he doesn't need zen3...

I have run a x79/4930k combo for a long time so maybe I'm a little biased? For sure used parts are risky and would only go the used route if I got good deals. If you are going to overpay, better to get new.

 

[Shihab]

Upgrading the existing system will get the OP no more performance than I was getting out of my 3930k system. Trust me when I said, the performance difference between X79 systems and Z490 systems is HUGE. Especially considering this computer is a business use computer, meaning it's used to make money, it's worth the upgrade if the OP can afford to upgrade. I'm speaking from first hand experience here.

A newer CPU would indeed be "faster" in some metric, but that doesn't automatically translate to a -practically- better productivity. What would the user gain if the text on a word processor render 10 nanoseconds faster? No one denies the the performance difference is huge, but not all performance is useful under any given context. If 5% of the workload is bottlenecked by the CPU, not matter what CPU you get, the gains will not exceed that 5%, but on the other hand your ROI could potentially extend past the life the computer itself...

Changing CPU's and doing Firmware updates on 10 year old boards can get really risky, especially for some one who isn't accustomed to do that kind of work.

I haven't mentioned CPU upgrades here. I'm mostly for the SSD/Memory upgrades, both are simple enough and require little effort.

 

[Morbius2021]

I'm not doubting your ability to build systems and those parts would certainly make a really nice PC, and OP would love it no doubt. I just don't see the need for a 5800x/x570 combo, as its not very cost effective. Yes, its a work PC, but he doesn't need zen3...

ok, well I wont get into what he "needs" because that is a discussion with more variables that I care to get into. I just provided a solid LONG term stable performance build that will make him happy today, and for some time to come performance and durability wise.

I completely agree that there are cheaper and lower performance options available , as to whether or not those other options are suitable, or what he needs isn't up to either of us.

Its the OP's decision. I have ZERO stake in what he/she chooses, my previous statements are just an indication of the experience I have building systems, none of which gives me any particular and specific insight into what this or any other end user might "need". That includes what they have now and what tasks they have to accomplish. I can only go by what I have recommended in the past, and what has worked best in those cases. Each system is unique and everything we as system builders design is just a best guess at what the end user needs.

A newer CPU would indeed be "faster" in some metric, but that doesn't automatically translate to a -practically- better productivity. What would the user gain if the text on a word processor render 10 nanoseconds faster? No one denies the the performance difference is huge, but not all performance is useful under any given context. If 5% of the workload is bottlenecked by the CPU, not matter what CPU you get, the gains will not exceed that 5%, but on the other hand your ROI could potentially extend past the life the computer itself...


I haven't mentioned CPU upgrades here. I'm mostly for the SSD/Memory upgrades, both are simple enough and require little effort.

I agree, I think I was referring to another post regarding CPU upgrades.

Like all things there is what is good on paper and what is actually good in terms of subjective end user experience.

I also agree that an SSD is by and large the best, lowest cost upgrade option out there.

I'm not doubting your ability to build systems and those parts would certainly make a really nice PC, and OP would love it no doubt. I just don't see the need for a 5800x/x570 combo, as its not very cost effective. Yes, its a work PC, but he doesn't need zen3...

I have run a x79/4930k combo for a long time so maybe I'm a little biased? For sure used parts are risky and would only go the used route if I got good deals. If you are going to overpay, better to get new.

I also ran a number of x79 rigs, from 3820 to 4930k CPUs, then Jumped to X99's and a 5960x CPU, I ran my 5960x for nearly 3 years and really liked it. What really pushed me to the next gen of gear was the Threadripper CPU's, I do some 3D rendering and I had maxed out my 5960x as it was really choking with some of the OPENGL Realtime rendering, most of that is video card bottlenecked but I also had issues with PCI-e 3.0 bandwidth when it came to pushing pixels fast enough. I got some improvement with the TR system, but found that it was also limited by PCI-e 3.0. I waited another 2 years before jumping to a bit of a beast that I use currently.
TR3970x , that along with a 3090 GTX made things just scream.

ok, well I wont get into what he "needs" because that is a discussion with more variables that I care to get into. I just provided a solid LONG term stable performance build that will make him happy today, and for some time to come performance and durability wise.

I completely agree that there are cheaper and lower performance options available , as to whether or not those other options are suitable, or what he needs isn't up to either of us.

Its the OP's decision. I have ZERO stake in what he/she chooses, my previous statements are just an indication of the experience I have building systems, none of which gives me any particular and specific insight into what this or any other end user might "need". That includes what they have now and what tasks they have to accomplish. I can only go by what I have recommended in the past, and what has worked best in those cases. Each system is unique and everything we as system builders design is just a best guess at what the end user needs.


I agree, I think I was referring to another post regarding CPU upgrades.

Like all things there is what is good on paper and what is actually good in terms of subjective end user experience.

I also agree that an SSD is by and large the best, lowest cost upgrade option out there.


I also ran a number of x79 rigs, from 3820 to 4930k CPUs, then Jumped to X99's and a 5960x CPU, I ran my 5960x for nearly 3 years and really liked it. What really pushed me to the next gen of gear was the Threadripper CPU's, I do some 3D rendering and I had maxed out my 5960x as it was really choking with some of the OPENGL Realtime rendering, most of that is video card bottlenecked but I also had issues with PCI-e 3.0 bandwidth when it came to pushing pixels fast enough. I got some improvement with the TR system, but found that it was also limited by PCI-e 3.0. I waited another 2 years before jumping to a bit of a beast that I use currently.
TR3970x , that along with a 3090 GTX made things just scream.

I on occasion will purchase used gear, but I try to limit those parts to 3-4 years old. Mostly server hardware, I will never use USED drives, but CPU's and RAM and Server systems are usually pretty safe, especially if they came from datacenter locations. No dust and good temp stability. So I am not against buying used when its appropriate

Just as a qualifier, the reason I recommended the Zen 3 systems over the Current Intel products is I have actually built a number of those systems. I don't like the thermal characteristics of Intel's current crop of products, they run too hot and in my "opinion" will shorten the life of the system board as a result. I built around 20 systems based on Zen 3, and all of them have performed VERY well for the customers who got them. I haven't had any problems in terms of performance and the systems run stable under heavy workloads. I wish pricing on both Nvidia and AMD video cards were better, but my experience with Autodesk products have pushed me to stick with Nvidia cards over AMD, I have tried both, but in terms of overall stability and in terms of the drivers and hardware playing nice with CAD and Adobe products Nvidia seems more stable to me. I have used many intel products in the past and have no issue recommending them when they provide a product that is stable and competitive. At present I am unimpressed

There's a great TPU forum for those of us still playing with the X79 platform. It's surprising that considering it's nearly 10 years old it still remains a viable option for some of us today. X79 and/or rampage IV OC'ing thread for those of us still left.... | TechPowerUp Forums

Interestingly I still have quite a few of those in production. Most of the legacy gear out there is x99 based now.

When they fail we do replace them, customers don't want to extend them now, but I would say I prefer the x99 platform overall.

The initial crop of x79 mainboards had their share of firmware issues, and quite a few of the ASUS boards we used failed for no apparent reason.

Asus also had issues with those firmware updates, about a year after they were released the bios format changed to the CAP format, and there was a lot of confusion regarding how to upgrade the boards.

Many of the systems required a BIOS recovery operation to get them past the original bios editions that were PRE CAP files. Even the onboard BIOS update utility on the mainboards would crash if you treid to update them using that feature.

 

[Why_Me]

Hello
I currently have a Full size Cooler Master HAF X case with the following build components
ASUS P9X79 Pro motherboard
Intel i7 3820 3.6 GHz. CPU - Socket 2011 LGA
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 gpu - 2 GB
2 X 4 GB sticks of Kingston DDR3 RAM - 799 MHz
1 TB Western Digital Hard Drive - old and tired
Running windows 10 64 bit OS

The system is slow and cranky
Applications take too long to start and respond

I am not at all hardware savvy or software savvy

I do NOT have any security software protection at all

I run Registry Mechanic and Glary Utilities often

I am NOT a gamer - do NOT play at all

But I use my computer a lot for business and surfing

I need it to be very very RELIABLE and FAST

I DO use graphics software like Corel Draw and sometime Adobe graphics products to fix graphics files

I use a lot of office productivity tools and Customer Relations Management software

I use Acrobat Pro to create and edit pdfs and a lot of graphics file edits

I surf a lot with literally 30 windows open all at once

BUT my computer seems very tired and I think I need an upgrade

I am very confused about whether I should change my entire system or just upgrade

PLEASE advise with detail suggestions on specific hardware

I do NOT mind USED components

I am on a BUDGET

Thank you

Yacob

What country are you located and what is your budget? <---- anyone not knowing the answers to those questions while giving advice on here should probably take a break.

 

[lexluthermiester]

What country are you located and what is your budget?

Why that seems like a good question, there are reasons why we did not ask...

<---- anyone not knowing the answers to those questions while giving advice on here should probably take a break.

Why is that?

 

[Why_Me]

Why that seems like a good question, there are reasons why we did not ask...

Why is that?

Because making suggestions without knowing the OP's budget and location is akin to p1ssing in the wind.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Because making suggestions without knowing the OP's budget and location is akin to p1ssing in the wind.

I disagree. Where they are is only helpful once they have decided what they want to do. The same goes for budget. Once they've made that choice getting details then come into play.

 

[Why_Me]

I disagree. Where they are is only helpful once they have decided what they want to do. The same goes for budget. Once they've made that choice getting details then come into play.

Not all countries have the same prices and/or inventory and we have no idea what the OP's budget is. He might have a large enough budget to change his board, cpu and RAM while adding an SSD or he might not have enough to do jack with. With that said I did a build last night for a guy in Vietnam and before I started looking up the components I was like 'no d@mn way are they going to have this over in Vietnam'. To my surprise they had a better selection of boards and cpu's than they have in the US seeing how their stuff is in stock. He made out like a bandit.

 

[tarkov1ch]

INSTALL AN SSD.
I do have an old laptop, a Dell L502X from 2011, which suffers from real slow-downs. Replaced with an SSD when I found out the hard drive was declining, but I can really say that it runs significantly better.
If you consider purchasing for it, I would suggest buying more and faster RAM. Airflow can be a good thing too, knowing that as components go older, they draw more power and accumulate more heat.

 

[Gmr_Chick]

Just going to throw this out there, how about a Zen+ CPU and b450 or b550 combo, 16GBs of cheap RAM, and an SSD?

 

[bobbybluz]

This is my last post on this subject. OP stated "I do NOT mind USED components" and "I am on a BUDGET". He didn't ask about building a new system. As I stated before his best option is upgrading the CPU, RAM and getting a SSD. An 8 core Xeon E5 1680 V2 can be had in the $100-125 range off Ebay. A 12 core E5 2697 V2 may be a few dollars more but would be perfect for his stated needs. With a bit of looking he should be able to score 32GB of DDR3 1866 for less than $100. There are several good 1TB SSD's for $100 or less. That combination will be like a new PC compared to what he has now.

The case he has is fine, the GPU will work for non-gaming applications. Personally I'd replace the PSU if it has a lot of time on it. I'd also do a fresh reinstall Win 10. Other than that I'd leave it alone. What I've mentioned above will cost less than a new GPU at the moment. If the mobo suddenly dies he can resell the upgrade parts on Ebay fairly easily if he so chooses. Brand name X79 boards are expensive on Ebay now. A used Sabertooth X79 costs more than what I paid for my first one new from Newegg on Black Friday, 2012. The X79 board he has will be fine with a Xeon (and better than any of the i7 Extreme Edition CPU's that were limited to 6 cores). If I scored a rig like what he has at the moment cheap I'd go the exact route I'm advising for it. I'd also add an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 240 AIO to it.

 

[Why_Me]

Just going to throw this out there, how about a Zen+ CPU and b450 or b550 combo, 16GBs of cheap RAM, and an SSD?

Or something like this if the OP has the funds for it. Budget RAM but it plays well with Asus boards.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119388
ASUS PRIME H510M-A/CSM $99.99

https://www.adorama.com/inbx8110400f.html
Intel Core i5-10400F $150.99

https://www.newegg.com/team-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820331354
Team T-FORCE VULCAN Z 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 CL16 $82.99

https://www.newegg.com/team-group-1tb-cx2/p/N82E16820331561
Team Group CX2 2.5" 1TB SATA III 3D NAND Internal SSD $88.99

Total: $423 USD

https://www.newegg.com/evga-500-bq-110-bq-0500-k1-500w/p/N82E16817438101
EVGA 500 BQ 80 Plus Bronze Semi Modular 500W PSU $44.99

https://www.newegg.com/black-fractal-design-focus-g-mini-micro-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811352068
Fractal Design Focus G Mini Black MicroATX Mid Tower Computer Case $55.99

 

[lexluthermiester]

Not all countries have the same prices and/or inventory and we have no idea what the OP's budget is. He might have a large enough budget to change his board, cpu and RAM while adding an SSD or he might not have enough to do jack with. With that said I did a build last night for a guy in Vietnam and before I started looking up the components I was like 'no d@mn way are they going to have this over in Vietnam'. To my surprise they had a better selection of boards and cpu's than they have in the US seeing how their stuff is in stock. He made out like a bandit.

While that's a good set of points, the op needs to decide what they want to do first.

 

[nanotech]

Hello Everyone
I must say that I am amazed at all the really thoughtful and sincere responses and the way all of you have reached out to assist me with my dilemma.
Thank you all again - very much - I am much obliged to all of you.

My conclusions are as follows ........

There is NO wrong way to go about this and all your suggestions were based on just a few lines from me about what I need.

Based on such little information everyone has made totally awesome suggestions.

The best way does depends totally on what I can afford - so yes my budget ( which I did not mention ) will dictate how to best go forward.

Ideally if I could afford it ................... a NEW system is the way to go.
So those who made this suggestion - thank you
I know you have given me excellent advice and I appreciate it

Unfortunately I am on a budget and it is my shortcoming that prevents me from taking this route.

So I will have to go with the UPGRADE route even though it is not ideal - it will tide me over for a decent amount of time


I am based in Toronto, Canada and I can spend about $300

Some GOOD NEWS

I was doing a major cleanup of the office and I came across a package of goodies

A Brand New Sealed box - Samsung 500 GB SSD - V-NAND SSD - 860 EVO sata 6 Gb/s
A Brand New Sealed box - Adobe Acrobat Pro 2017
A Brand New Sealed box - Windows 10 Pro

Question - Is it necessary to go back to the store ( Staples ) and get the latest versions of the Acrobat and the Windows ?
Hope that is not a silly question - all the boxes are SEALED - Never opened
And the package has the receipt also ( 2018 ) - I guess someone wanted to do an upgrade a few years ago .....

All 4 RAM slots are currently occupied by 4 X 2 GB RAM - see pic attached - Kingston HyperX Genesis
I guess I will have to sell these and get either 4 X 4 or 2 X 8 RAM sticks - not sure which is a better configuration - I do not think I will add more later.

Will the SSD drive attach to the SSD Caching Connector on the MB - see picture ????

Also, is that Noctua Fan assembly too BIG - or is it OK ?

Further PROBLEMS to consider about the Case
One rear USB slot stopped working recently
The rear SOUND output connection stopped working also recently
I now connect sound to the front output jack
In front - all jacks stopped working except the USB and SOUND jacks

I know that the front panel connectors can be replaced as an assembly from Cooler Master

BUT the rear issues are directly on the motherboard
I guess I can manage for now but I would like your suggestions

All of you have helped a great deal so I shared pictures of the PC just so you get a better feel for what it looks like

Thank you all

 

[thebluebumblebee]

One rear USB slot stopped working recently
The rear SOUND output connection stopped working also recently
I now connect sound to the front output jack
In front - all jacks stopped working except the USB and SOUND jacks

I know that the front panel connectors can be replaced as an assembly from Cooler Master

BUT the rear issues are directly on the motherboard
I guess I can manage for now but I would like your suggestions

So good to hear that you have a SSD and OS for your new build.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I am based in Toronto, Canada and I can spend about $300

Given that budget, I would strongly advise upgrading rather than buying new.

Your motherboard should have 4 empty RAM slots[8 total, do correct if incorrect] so buying 4 more 2GB DIMMs would be inexpensive and boost longevity to you system.

2gb ddr3 kingston hyperx for sale | eBay

Find great deals on eBay for 2gb ddr3 kingston hyperx. Shop with confidence.

www.ebay.ca

Alternatively you can get 4 4GB DIMMs;

32GB 16GB 8GB 4GB PC3-12800U DDR3 240Pin DIMM Desktop Memory RAM For Crucial LOT | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 32GB 16GB 8GB 4GB PC3-12800U DDR3 240Pin DIMM Desktop Memory RAM For Crucial LOT at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.ca

The CPU upgrade has a number of option that are relatively inexpensive;

Intel Xeon E5-2667 V2 8-Core 3.3GHz Processor SR19W *Pulled* | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Intel Xeon E5-2667 V2 8-Core 3.3GHz Processor SR19W *Pulled* at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.ca

INTEL XEON E5-1650 V2 6 CORE 3.5GHZ 10MB SR1AQ IVY BRIDGE SOCKET LGA2011 CPU | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for INTEL XEON E5-1650 V2 6 CORE 3.5GHZ 10MB SR1AQ IVY BRIDGE SOCKET LGA2011 CPU at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.ca

For the time being, you have an otherwise decently solid system.

 

[QuietBob]

So I will have to go with the UPGRADE route even though it is not ideal - it will tide me over for a decent amount of time
I am based in Toronto, Canada and I can spend about $300

If you can stretch your budget just a little, I'd strongly recommend buying a motherboard, CPU and RAM. Those are the only components you need to enjoy a new and very responsive system. Your current motherboard is starting to fail, I'd seriously consider replacing it for reliability. With that newly found SSD, you can reuse all your other hardware.

The combination below will work much faster in your use scenarios. It will also be much faster than any upgrade to your current config.

 

[nanotech]

So if I opted to stay with the CPU I have what is a decent cost motherboard upgrade for me ?
Can a motherboard that supports DDR4 RAM accommodate my CPU ?
Should I just go for 32 GB RAM - will it really be a lot better than going for 16 GB - I currently have only 8 GB
Is it necessary to get a board that will be able to accommodate the newer NVMe storage cards ?

 

[Shrek]

Install the SSD; 8GB of RAM is enough for Windows 10

See how that runs

Zero cost upgrade

 

[nanotech]

Yes that does sound great
I am just a bit concerned about the failure of some of the functions on the MB
This is why I asked about the idea of upgrading the board
The I can buy the less expensive DDR4 - if the board will accommodate my CPU
This will also give me a chance to re - paste the CPU for better heat transfer
I could then also get back my audio port and USB port that I have lost
and maybe some other advantages with a newer board ???
Hope this make sense

 

[r.h.p]

So if I opted to stay with the CPU I have what is a decent cost motherboard upgrade for me ?
Can a motherboard that supports DDR4 RAM accommodate my CPU ?
Should I just go for 32 GB RAM - will it really be a lot better than going for 16 GB - I currently have only 8 GB
Is it necessary to get a board that will be able to accommodate the newer NVMe storage cards ?

i think what quietbob said will work

 

[Chomiq]

Will the SSD drive attach to the SSD Caching Connector on the MB - see picture ????

Use regular port. SSD caching port is a leftover from the period when SSD's were super expensive.

Marked as 7 below:

 

[lexluthermiester]

So if I opted to stay with the CPU I have what is a decent cost motherboard upgrade for me ?

You don't have that option. Your CPU is of a platform that is discontinued. Changing motherboards would give you no advantage as you would still be limited to DDR3. Even though the 2011 socket has DDR4 variants, a newer CPU would also be required. 2011 DDR4 is the X99 chipset and your CPU is exclusively X79 which is limited to DDR3. Your best option is to upgrade your CPU as it's only a quad core and most games and programs run better on a 6 or 8 core model.

If you'd like some tips and help, visit the following threads;

X79 and/or rampage IV OC'ing thread for those of us still left....

I can't find anything resembling "new" threads or even replies to old threads about poor, little neglected x79 and 2011 v1! users not 2011-3 threads which I'm sure are all over those who still have money to upgrade an entire system...which currently I don't. So I got my system tweaked with new...

www.techpowerup.com

Xeon Owners Club

Because i have seen around in the Forum that many of us are Xeon Cpu owners i have created this Thread. This Thread is for everything that has to do with Xeon Cpu's and Xeons Builds as well here you can show off your Xeon Machines. Let's start Posting. Cheers. This is my Dual Xeon L5640 6c/12t

www.techpowerup.com

Upgrading your CPU would be a trivial effort and would grant you a solid performance boost as would running 4x4GB of RAM on it.

 

[nanotech]

OK
Thank you