General Cryptocoin Discussion

[64K]

I was just reading an article about China starting another crackdown on crypto. They seem more serious this time. They are restricting crypto trading as well. I could see this coming since the Chinese Government subsidizes the energy sector and they don't want miners taking advantage of it. It's not illegal to own crypto but that may be next.

China's Anti-Crypto Crackdown Is Different This Time

Miners leaving China show the seriousness of new enforcement. But constrained trading and investment are more likely to really matter.

www.coindesk.com

Meanwhile Bitcoin and Ethereum are up considerably

 

[trog100]

I was just reading an article about China starting another crackdown on crypto. They seem more serious this time. They are restricting crypto trading as well. I could see this coming since the Chinese Government subsidizes the energy sector and they don't want miners taking advantage of it. It's not illegal to own crypto but that may be next.

China's Anti-Crypto Crackdown Is Different This Time

Miners leaving China show the seriousness of new enforcement. But constrained trading and investment are more likely to really matter.

www.coindesk.com

Meanwhile Bitcoin and Ethereum are up considerably

long term this is good for crypto.. too much mining concentrated in china was never a good thing..

trog

 

[The red spirit]

long term this is good for crypto.. too much mining concentrated in china was never a good thing..

trog

I disagree. Crypto's mission has always been a decentralized currency accessible without government's intervention. And if governments start to ban it, then it loses purpose. It just becomes a government controlled currency just like Chinese Yuan is. It sucks to be Chinese.

 

[64K]

Bitcoin could bottom out at $10,000 to $15,000 according to Scott Minerd
He was bullish at one point and predicted that Bitcoin could go up to $600,000

Guggenheim’s Scott Minerd Says Bitcoin Could Sink to $15K

In February, the now-bearish Minerd said BTC could climb as high as $600,000.

www.coindesk.com

 

[Caring1]

I was just reading an article about China starting another crackdown on crypto. They seem more serious this time. They are restricting crypto trading as well. I could see this coming since the Chinese Government subsidizes the energy sector and they don't want miners taking advantage of it. It's not illegal to own crypto but that may be next.

China's Anti-Crypto Crackdown Is Different This Time

Miners leaving China show the seriousness of new enforcement. But constrained trading and investment are more likely to really matter.

www.coindesk.com

Meanwhile Bitcoin and Ethereum are up considerably

Related to that.

Bitmain Stops Sales of Mining Machines in Bid to Buoy Prices Facing China's Crackdown

Delaying further sales could be seen as a way for Bitmain to shield both itself and its clients from falling prices of mining rigs.

www.coindesk.com

 

[Chomiq]

They're moving to Kazachstan:

China Is No Longer An Option? Crypto Miners Are Moving To Kazakhstan

Chinese mining companies are slowly moving their operations to Kazakhstan following the latest crackdown on mining activities by the Chinese government.

finance.yahoo.com

In a press release yesterday, publicly-listed BIT Mining announced that it had successfully delivered 320 mining machines with a theoretical maximum total hash rate capacity of 18.2 PH/s. The machines would be fully operational in a few days.

BIT further added that it intends to ship another 2,600 mining machines to Kazakhstan by next week. The mining hardware will have a theoretical maximum total hash rate capacity of 102.3 PH/s. The company had begun investing in Kazakhstan before the ban on cryptocurrency mining activities in China.

Since this was posted a week ago "next week" is now.

 

[AusWolf]

Has anybody posted these?

TSB bans cryptocurrency amid fraud concerns with Binance and Kraken

More than five million British banking customers are to be barred from buying cryptocurrencies within days amid concerns that trading platforms are riddled with

www.thetimes.co.uk

UK bans world's biggest cryptocurrency exchange platform with immediate effect

Binance, the world's biggest crypto-currency exchange, has been banned by the UK's financial regulator

www.mirror.co.uk

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

UK banks and authorities are coming to their senses.

 

[basco]

.......coming to their senses........... to keep your\their money\control where they want it to be.

 

[AusWolf]

.......coming to their senses........... to keep your\their money\control where they want it to be.

Wouldn't you do the same?

 

[basco]

you want control over the people then yes you want freedom then no

 

[Nash]

Has anybody posted these?

UK banks and authorities are coming to their senses.

Binance didn't have a license to operate there, so..

 

[AusWolf]

you want control over the people then yes you want freedom then no

1. What I want is not the point here.
2. Freedom is a great concept, but it doesn't mean anything if you don't define it. If by freedom you mean random peasants getting rich by building a mining rig and otherwise not working a single second while I still work 40 hours a week to make sure their stuff gets delivered, then my answer is thanks but no tanks. Money (any money) on the individual's level is not a means to be free, but a means to get rich, and that's better left under control.

 

[Zach_01]

Another concept of freedom is that every single person can build a mining rig and try to profit, or just buy any digital-coin and make transactions with it or store it... and no authoritarian regime type of Gov can exclude its citizens from this kind of actions because it feels like its loosing the control over them.

Those who create, run and "maintain" the current, full of holes monetary system that its based on debt and inflation, who's main goal is people control, suddenly woke up and want to deliver the world from crypto in the name of global warming and security or whatever... Right!!

Power consumption or any other unfortunate situation like GPU prices is just a temporary face that we must go through. And those who cant see or know the benefits or the concept behind blockchain in general or even in some specific situations its their "problem" -ish. The tech is still in its infancy. Of course not all crypto coins (more than 10,000 currently) are needed or are legitimate and try to help the world going forward...

 

[AusWolf]

Another concept of freedom is that every single person can build a mining rig and try to profit, or just buy any digital-coin and make transactions with it or store it...

...using money that they earned in the current economic system - if they have enough. You need to have a lot of your country's pre-existing currency to buy a decent enough mining rig, or invest into crypto. Of course, if you have a lot of BTC for example, you can use just that to invest, but you have to get there somehow. You can't make something out of nothing. Let's just disregard the fact that in some countries (the UK being a prime example) your BTC is worthless unless you convert it into the country's prominent currency. Therefore, the concept of freedom in crypto is essentially flawed, as you first have to be a major player in the current economy to have something to invest into your conversion to crypto. If you're a small fish in your country's economy, you'll be a small fish in crypto as well - helping the big fish to get richer. Only the identity of the big fish changes.

Power consumption or any other unfortunate situation like GPU prices is just a temporary face that we must go through. And those who cant see or know the benefits or the concept behind blockchain in general or even in some specific situations its their "problem" -ish. The tech is still in its infancy. Of course not all crypto coins (more than 10,000 currently) are needed or are legitimate and try to help the world going forward...

Are you saying that crypto is good, and the current economy is bad, and everyone who doesn't want to, or just can't invest into an infinitely more volatile system has only themselves to blame for not seeing the benefits? It sounds a bit like a religious statement, don't you think?

Besides, if everybody becomes a crypto miner, then who's going to work normal jobs? You can't maintain a society where 100% of the workforce is a crypto miner. You can't blame the people who are left behind for reasons such as:
- not being interested in banking, crypto, or other monetary affairs,
- not being tech-oriented enough,
- not having the money for a mining rig (especially in the current GPU market),
- living in an area with relatively high energy prices (the UK again being an example),
- not willing to take the risk of investing into a volatile economic system,
- not feeling the need to change, and so on.

As long as crypto doesn't have an answer for these people, it won't change the world. It will only make a few people richer. You can't change the world by thinking only about your wallet.

Freedom is only great until it starts to limits other people's freedom. An attitude of "I do what I want, and you can help yourself to the leftovers" is not freedom, but arrogance.

 

[Zach_01]

...using money that they earned in the current economic system - if they have enough. You need to have a lot of your country's pre-existing currency to buy a decent enough mining rig, or invest into crypto. Of course, if you have a lot of BTC for example, you can use just that to invest, but you have to get there somehow. You can't make something out of nothing. Let's just disregard the fact that in some countries (the UK being a prime example) your BTC is worthless unless you convert it into the country's prominent currency. Therefore, the concept of freedom in crypto is essentially flawed, as you first have to be a major player in the current economy to have something to invest into your conversion to crypto. If you're a small fish in your country's economy, you'll be a small fish in crypto as well - helping the big fish to get richer. Only the identity of the big fish changes.


Are you saying that crypto is good, and the current economy is bad, and everyone who doesn't want to, or just can't invest into an infinitely more volatile system has only themselves to blame for not seeing the benefits? It sounds a bit like a religious statement, don't you think?

Besides, if everybody becomes a crypto miner, then who's going to work normal jobs? You can't maintain a society where 100% of the workforce is a crypto miner. You can't blame the people who are left behind for reasons such as:
- not being interested in banking, crypto, or other monetary affairs,
- not being tech-oriented enough,
- not having the money for a mining rig (especially in the current GPU market),
- living in an area with relatively high energy prices (the UK again being an example),
- not willing to take the risk of investing into a volatile economic system,
- not feeling the need to change, and so on.

As long as crypto doesn't have an answer for these people, it won't change the world. It will only make a few people richer. You can't change the world by thinking only about your wallet.

Freedom is only great until it starts to limits other people's freedom. An attitude of "I do what I want, and you can help yourself to the leftovers" is not freedom, but arrogance.

Look again please through my statements. I never said anything to back up your assumptions and conclusions. You took my words and distorted them and make your own assumptions of what I mean and make your self look like the one that its beeing blazed and inveighed against because you dont want to be a part of crypto. Its your right to not want to do anything with it for many reasons.
Its not your right to want it banished or controlled beyond its purpose because you're not willing to take risks, or cant, or dont want to learned anything other than that it (currently) consumes a lot of energy and increases GPU prices.

Current monetary system (which I'm also get paid with) is only working because the debt and inflation is still growing. They keep it like this and all (or most) people think it works just fine and whatever new is unnecessary, only profit opportunistic and nothing more, tool for illegal actions etc etc... Dont be surprised if some day everything/one falls apart, except those who will be prepared for it. I do not mean crypto users but those who are controlling the current system.
I cant tell what we need to do. I dont know what will be tomorrow's system. I dont know the exact outcome of the current situation either.
I can only hope for the best.

...using money that they earned in the current economic system - if they have enough. You need to have a lot of your country's pre-existing currency to buy a decent enough mining rig, or invest into crypto. Of course, if you have a lot of BTC for example, you can use just that to invest, but you have to get there somehow. You can't make something out of nothing. Let's just disregard the fact that in some countries (the UK being a prime example) your BTC is worthless unless you convert it into the country's prominent currency. Therefore, the concept of freedom in crypto is essentially flawed, as you first have to be a major player in the current economy to have something to invest into your conversion to crypto. If you're a small fish in your country's economy, you'll be a small fish in crypto as well - helping the big fish to get richer. Only the identity of the big fish changes.

And I'm into crypto for more than 3 years now. I didnt help any big fish to get richer. i didnt loose any of my initial capital. I took it out and I only count profits now, yes on the current system with $ and €. there is no other way currently.
Can you explain how big fish is taking advantage the small ones? Is it done any differently than on the current investment platforms such as the stock market?

 

[basco]

i think i get what ya saying Mr. AusWolf.
i think its a step in the right direction but long away from perfect with its power consumption and so on.

but nobody stopped ya from buying it at 1 dollar and hold it till ya think its time-- same as shares and in this system ya believe, if i got ya right.

 

[AusWolf]

Look again please through my statements. I never said anything to back up your assumptions and conclusions. You took my words and distorted them and make your own assumptions of what I mean and make your self look like the one that its beeing blazed and inveighed against because you dont want to be a part of crypto. Its your right to not want to do anything with it for many reasons.
Its not your right to want it banished or controlled beyond its purpose because you're not willing to take risks, or cant, or dont want to learned anything other than that it (currently) consumes a lot of energy and increases GPU prices.

I never put words into your mouth. I was simply trying to understand your statement, the same way you're trying to understand mine.

All I'm saying is, controlling crypto is the sensible thing for banks and authorities to do, and I'm surprised they have taken so long before trying. I believe this is something everybody can understand, whether you agree with it or not.

My personal take is that control isn't always bad. The same way you wouldn't want thieves run on the streets day and night, you also wouldn't want crypto (or any economy) to be a den of scammers and money launderers. I can't see crypto being anything else than a tool to shift wealth from the hands of one group of people into another with the false promise that everybody can get rich, and as such, I can't see how it benefits me. But I've discussed this already, and it's not the topic here.

Current monetary system (which I'm also get paid with) is only working because the debt and inflation is still growing. They keep it like this and all (or most) people think it works just fine and whatever new is unnecessary, only profit opportunistic and nothing more, tool for illegal actions etc etc... Dont be surprised if some day everything/one falls apart, except those who will be prepared for it. I do not mean crypto users but those who are controlling the current system.
I cant tell what we need to do. I dont know what will be tomorrow's system. I dont know the exact outcome of the current situation either.
I can only hope for the best.

Now you're putting words into my mouth. I never said I was happy with the current economic system. I just don't think crypto is the right way out for reasons I mentioned above. I don't see economy as a binary choice between traditional vs. crypto. Money is money whether you call it USD, GBP, BTC or whatever.

And I'm into crypto for more than 3 years now. I didnt help any big fish to get richer. i didnt loose any of my initial capital. I took it out and I only count profits now, yes on the current system with $ and €. there is no other way currently.
Can you explain how big fish is taking advantage the small ones? Is it done any differently than on the current investment platforms such as the stock market?

Wealth in the hands of the big fish is only worth something in comparison to that of the small fish. If only a handful of people mined crypto and they all had millions, then those millions would ultimately be worth nothing. Similarly, if everybody got paid a million $ a month at work, prices and conversion rates would eventually balance out so your money wouldn't be worth more than it is now. That's inflation. Money isn't simply a number - it's also the percentage of the economic system you own. You're contributing to the wealth of the big fish by being the small fish and keeping the economy alive. You're only swapping between one fish tank and another, figuratively speaking.

i think i get what ya saying Mr. AusWolf.
i think its a step in the right direction but long away from perfect with its power consumption and so on.

but nobody stopped ya from buying it at 1 dollar and hold it till ya think its time-- same as shares and in this system ya believe, if i got ya right.

While you buy 1 dollar's worth of crypto to hold, someone else buys a million dollar's worth. That's how you're not getting rich in either economic system.

 

[basco]

for me making 1 dollar to 3000.- is a big win for me and for my situation this is rich.
and being rich in health or family + friends means more then money for me.

we just have 2 very different points of view and thats great. would be boring if we´d all think the same.

and just for example:
musk and bezzos are now trying to get a 5billion dollar contract from tax payers money for going to space. how does that help us all.

 

[AusWolf]

for me making 1 dollar to 3000.- is a big win for me and for my situation this is rich.

While you make 3,000 dollars by investing 1, someone makes 3,000,000 while investing 1,000 and so on. You have less money than they do, so you invest less and gain less. Of course you can enjoy your profit while you can, but that doesn't mean that the system as a whole has changed.

and being rich in health or family + friends means more then money for me.

Same here. If you make your family and friends' lives better, you're making the world better. Let the economy and other global horseshit figure itself out.

musk and bezzos are now trying to get a 5billion dollar contract from tax payers money for going to space. how does that help us all.

How is that connected to the current topic?

 

[Zach_01]

While you make 3,000 dollars by investing 1, someone makes 3,000,000 while investing 1,000 and so on. You have less money than they do, so you invest less and gain less. Of course you can enjoy your profit while you can, but that doesn't mean that the system as a whole has changed.


Same here. If you make your family and friends' lives better, you're making the world better. Let the economy and other global horseshit figure itself out.


How is that connected to the current topic?

Probably it’s not what you meant but you make it look like it is a contest. I don’t need to change the system for having more wealth than others. I want to be able to have a little more than just to live/exist. To be able to help my dear persons. To be able to health care my self or other people I care. To be able to enjoy life a little more If I can. If the system needs a change and why, it’s a separate matter.

I really don’t care if someone else made 3,000,000 out of 1,000 while I made 3,000 out of 1. Me having the 3,000 is better than having 1 and that helps me get through life a little easier.

If me and a big fish both multiply our money x100 times, it does not mean that the cost of things around us like food, cloths, health care, electronics, etc... is automatically costing x100.
Does it?
Can you see my point and the false of what you said?

 

[AusWolf]

Probably it’s not what you meant but you make it look like it is a contest. I don’t need to change the system for having more wealth than others. I want to be able to have a little more than just to live/exist. To be able to help my dear persons. To be able to health care my self or other people I care. To be able to enjoy life a little more If I can. If the system needs a change and why, it’s a separate matter.

I really don’t care if someone else made 3,000,000 out of 1,000 while I made 3,000 out of 1. Me having the 3,000 is better than having 1 and that helps me get through life a little easier.

If you think of it that way, that's fine. All I'm countering is the arguments saying that crypto is something revolutionary that can save us from the perils of our current economic system.

If me and a big fish both multiply our money x100 times, it does not mean that the cost of things around us like food, cloths, health care, electronics, etc... is automatically costing x100.
Does it?
Can you see my point and the false of what you said?

Not currently, because the crypto economy is small enough not to play a major role. If crypto was widely accepted as a means of payment, and everybody used it in abundance (which is what some people seem to want), then it would eventually drive prices up. You can see it happen in the traditional economy as minimum wages and prices go up at a relatively similar rate.

 

[Zach_01]

If you think of it that way, that's fine. All I'm countering is the arguments saying that crypto is something revolutionary that can save us from the perils of our current economic system.

Well I do think also that it is something revolutionary but not ready to replace anything yet. As I said its in its infancy. And that is also driven by the thought of blockchain tech is something way more than just an algorithm or data that can hold value. It can be a tool in the hands of many for a lot of things.

Not currently, because the crypto economy is small enough not to play a major role. If crypto was widely accepted as a means of payment, and everybody used it in abundance (which is what some people seem to want), then it would eventually drive prices up. You can see it happen in the traditional economy as minimum wages and prices go up at a relatively similar rate.

FIAT currency is used in abundance. Does this mean that I need to stop asking my boss for salary raise (at least the inflation rate) so I dont drive prices and costs up?
Or the salary raise (at least the inflation rate) is necessary because the (current) system works with inflation, drives costs and prices up, and renders people's buying power lesser and lesser every single year?

Debt and inflation is the base factors of our current monetary system. Its not out of the world for people to seek/want something else that is not working like this. Those at least that understand that the current situation is hanging by a thread. A thread in the hands of regulators of this world.

 

[AusWolf]

Well I do think also that it is something revolutionary but not ready to replace anything yet. As I said its in its infancy. And that is also driven by the thought of blockchain tech is something way more than just an algorithm or data that can hold value. It can be a tool in the hands of many for a lot of things.

Maybe. Maybe not. I guess we'll have a better idea in about 20-ish years. Personally, I still think it's just money, like everything else. The relevance of being driven by banks and governments, or by the public is questionable imo.

FIAT currency is used in abundance. Does this mean that I need to stop asking my boss for salary raise (at least the inflation rate) so I dont drive prices and costs up?

That's not what I meant.

Or the salary raise (at least the inflation rate) is necessary because the (current) system works with inflation, drives costs and prices up, and renders people's buying power lesser and lesser every single year?

That's exactly what I meant. My point is that if crypto was used by everyone, it would work in exactly the same way. Purchasing power is largely determined by the amount of money in circulation.

 

[Zach_01]

Maybe. Maybe not. I guess we'll have a better idea in about 20-ish years. Personally, I still think it's just money, like everything else. The relevance of being driven by banks and governments, or by the public is questionable imo.

That's exactly what I meant. My point is that if crypto was used by everyone, it would work in exactly the same way. Purchasing power is largely determined by the amount of money in circulation.

Many digital coins are designed against inflation. A lot of them have a finite amount. And certainly they are not just money because most people are lacking knowledge on blockchain.
You maybe right about the couple of decades... It takes time for people to expel pervious ideas as obsolete in a matter with such importance and take a new one. And of course its the big interests also that many times prevent change.

 

[ppn]

What does it matter finite or infinite ammount, usually the last coin will take forever to mine on increasing difficulty. And If it is tied to some fiat, it's like printing money, should be illegal.

The only value it holds is for speculation, if it doesn't increase nobody would want it, let alone decrease. And it won't increase forever, actually it can as long the whales can stamp whatever price they want on it by selling and buying to themselves using their own multiple accounts, yeah, i want 30k for 1 coin, great it's a deal i just solt it for 30k to myself, yeah, next i want 40K for it, it's a deal, in all likelyhood if they make 50% of the transactions, 50% of the time it returns back to them, and also receive the fee reward, and so on and so forth. So long as the new comers keep paying the miners this could work.