First Windows 11 Patch Tuesday Makes Ryzen L3 Cache Latency Worse, AMD Puts Out Fix Dates

bug · Oct 15, 2021

lexluthermiester said:
Nope. This has nothing to do with Intel. AMD's CCX Complex/Infinity Fabric works in a way that is very different and unrelated to how Intels big/little scheme works. Each have CPU Kernel driver code and they are mutually exclusive.

The Kernel driver code for each CPU does not and can not interfere with the code of another.

I see. I was thinking Microsoft tried to put everything under the same umbrella and somehow messed up AMD support. But if support is still separated, it's really weird they messed it up. I mean, it was already done for Win10. Then again, I'm a software developer, this isn't the weirdest thing I have seen.

phanbuey · Oct 15, 2021

bug said:
I see. I was thinking Microsoft tried to put everything under the same umbrella and somehow messed up AMD support. But if support is still separated, it's really weird they messed it up. I mean, it was already done for Win10. Then again, I'm a software developer, this isn't the weirdest thing I have seen.

I'm sure it's security 'feature' related.

I think most of performance hits from windows these days is coming from new security features (vbs, flow control, memory randomization, blah blah). When you're babysitting how every piece of memory is being accessed/allocated this is bound to happen.

zlobby · Oct 15, 2021

phanbuey said:
I'm sure it's security 'feature' related.

I think most of performance hits from windows these days is coming from new security features (vbs, flow control, memory randomization, blah blah). When you're babysitting how every piece of memory is being accessed/allocated this is bound to happen.

Until hardware is fully capable of running everything virtualized natively, we're bound for such 'hybrid' solutions where parts of the virtualization is done in software, while the rest is done in hardware.

Hopefully the day every program runs completely isolated natively, in hardware will be upon us all soon. It also begs the question what will happen when a sufficiently advanced (self-aware) AI manage to obfuscate its real goals with these neat security features?

bug · Oct 15, 2021

zlobby said:
Until hardware is fully capable of running everything virtualized natively, we're bound for such 'hybrid' solutions where parts of the virtualization is done in software, while the rest is done in hardware.

Hopefully the day every program runs completely isolated natively, in hardware will be upon us all soon. It also begs the question what will happen when a sufficiently advanced (self-aware) AI manage to obfuscate its real goals with these neat security features?

What does that even mean?

phanbuey · Oct 15, 2021

zlobby said:
Until hardware is fully capable of running everything virtualized natively, we're bound for such 'hybrid' solutions where parts of the virtualization is done in software, while the rest is done in hardware.

Hopefully the day every program runs completely isolated natively, in hardware will be upon us all soon. It also begs the question what will happen when a sufficiently advanced (self-aware) AI manage to obfuscate its real goals with these neat security features?

Horizon Zero Dawn.

lexluthermiester · Oct 15, 2021

bug said:
I was thinking Microsoft tried to put everything under the same umbrella and somehow messed up AMD support.

The way I understand it, there's a bit of truth there. The new scheduling schemes are a part of the base changes being made to 11, but those changes apply equally to all CPU models. Where the glitch comes in is where those processes interact with the architecture of each CPU line. Ryzen CPU's are a built in a unique way and as such, the CPU driver code has to be written to accommodate how it works.

What likely happened was microsoft give AMD the specifications of the changes they were going to make and AMD delivered back code for microsoft to integrate, then along the way something was changed and the code AMD created no longer worked properly. However, that's just a guess based on what I've been able to discover thus far.

zlobby · Oct 15, 2021

phanbuey said:
Horizon Zero Dawn.

Deragnement much?

bug said:
What does that even mean?

What indeed?

R-T-B · Oct 15, 2021

lexluthermiester said:
Nope. This has nothing to do with Intel. AMD's CCX Complex/Infinity Fabric works in a way that is very different and unrelated to how Intels big/little scheme works. Each have CPU Kernel driver code and they are mutually exclusive.

The Kernel driver code for each CPU does not and can not interfere with the code of another.

But the scheduler can. I have a feeling what happened is there rather than kernel.

phanbuey · Oct 15, 2021

zlobby said:
Deragnement much?

The story of HZD is an ai that wraps itself in encryption that can't be broken/shut down.

Edit: totally missed it the first time

...

zlobby · Oct 15, 2021

phanbuey said:
Spelling much?

The story of HZD is an ai that wraps itself in encryption that can't be broken/shut down.

Ah, I did forget the quotes on 'Derangement'. And I misspelt it, too. You ought to know it's in the game's synopsis, no?

lexluthermiester · Oct 16, 2021

R-T-B said:
But the scheduler can. I have a feeling what happened is there rather than kernel.

You might be right. I'll be honest, this is just a guess based on the info available. That level of programming is way beyond my pay grade.

windwhirl · Oct 16, 2021

Patch is landing in Beta and Release Preview channels. Should probably reach General Availability at some point during next week.

Releasing Windows 11 Build 22000.282 to Beta and Release Preview Channels

Hello Windows Insiders, today we’re releasing Windows 11 Build 22000.282 to Windows Insiders in the Beta and Release Preview Channels. This update includes the following improvements: We fixed an L3 caching issue that might affect perfo

blogs.windows.com

The Windows Insider Program

Be the first to see what's next for Windows in the Windows Insider Program. Join the community, provide feedback to help make Windows even better.

aka.ms

Mussels · Oct 16, 2021

lexluthermiester said:
You also didn't see them announce updated support for each gen of Ryzen nor 8th, 9th, 10th &11th gen Core series CPU's from Intel, but they did. Those updates will come in an update as per usual.

Maybe? Common sense really..

No, really. Alder lake requires windows 11.

It's two different CPU architectures in one, Win 10 would throw crysis on the low performance core and minesweeper on the big ones

The fix is live on the beta channel

lexluthermiester · Oct 16, 2021

Mussels said:
No, really. Alder lake requires windows 11.

Are you sure? Might be mistaken but I don't remember reading Alderlake being exclusive to Win11...

Mussels · Oct 16, 2021

lexluthermiester said:
Are you sure? Might be mistaken but I don't remember reading Alderlake being exclusive to Win11...

You might get it to work. It wont work properly.

It's like asking why hyperthreading doesnt work in DOS, because the OS isn't coded for it.

Microsoft and intel decided to make Alder lake only work properly on windows 11.
No one knows if that means a performance hit, missing cores, etc - yet.

This crap is not coming to 10:

lexluthermiester · Oct 16, 2021

Mussels said:
You might get it to work. It wont work properly.

It's like asking why hyperthreading doesnt work in DOS, because the OS isn't coded for it.

Microsoft and intel decided to make Alder lake only work properly on windows 11.
No one knows if that means a performance hit, missing cores, etc - yet.

This crap is not coming to 10:
View attachment 221071

Ok, I see what you're getting at. Intel saying that it is "specifically designed for Windows 11" does not directly state exclusivity for that OS. It might hint at it, but until they actually make that direct statement, it's not set in stone..

Mussels · Oct 16, 2021

lexluthermiester said:
Ok, I see what you're getting at. Intel saying that it is "specifically designed for Windows 11" does not directly state exclusivity for that OS. It might hint at it, but until they actually make that direct statement, it's not set in stone..

They repeatedly say it'll perform crap in any OS that is not specifically patched for the new big.little design
As far as any reviewer or consumer is concerned, thats an exclusive, since 11 is the only OS they (intel) have worked with.

It's like saying a 5950x is supported in DOS... sure, but it's sure as fuck not at full performance.

Selaya · Oct 16, 2021

just disable the little cores then, nothing of value was lost anyways so

lexluthermiester · Oct 16, 2021

Mussels said:
They repeatedly say it'll perform crap in any OS that is not specifically patched for the new big.little design
As far as any reviewer or consumer is concerned, thats an exclusive, since 11 is the only OS they've worked with.

It's like saying a 5950x is supported in DOS... sure, but it's sure as fuck not at full performance.

Not trying to ruffle your feathers. It seems like they just don't have things ironed out yet. This might be because of market adoption for Windows 11, which hasn't taken off like a shot or a number of other factors.

zlobby · Oct 16, 2021

lexluthermiester said:
Not trying to ruffle your feathers.

But his jimmies were rustlesd.

windwhirl · Oct 16, 2021

Selaya said:
just disable the little cores then, nothing of value was lost anyways so

If I buy big and small cores, I'm gonna use all of them.

lexluthermiester · Oct 16, 2021

windwhirl said:
If I buy big and small cores, I'm gonna use all of them.

That's a reasonable expectation.

ThrashZone · Oct 16, 2021

windwhirl said:
If I buy big and small cores, I'm gonna use all of them.

Hi,
Little cores likely will be hot potato's lol

maxfly · Oct 16, 2021

Dont know if this has been linked yet but its good news!

Windows 11 Insider patch fixes major AMD Ryzen bug

This fix takes care of the L3 caching issue affecting some AMD Ryzen CPUs.

www.pcgamer.com

Selaya · Oct 16, 2021

windwhirl said:
If I buy big and small cores, I'm gonna use all of them.

thats on you then
i would only ever buy big cores but idt there's an 8/0 SKU?
so i get unwanted useless little cores shoved down my throat, that don't even want to play nice w/ all OSes so yeah, -> disable

Processor	Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard	Asus H670 TUF
Cooling	Arctic Freezer 34
Memory	2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s)	EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage	500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s)	Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case	Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s)	Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply	Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse	Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard	G.Skill KM780R
Software	Arch Linux + Win10

System Name	stress-less
Processor	9800X3D @ 5.42GHZ
Motherboard	MSI PRO B650M-A Wifi
Cooling	Thermalright Phantom Spirit EVO
Memory	64GB DDR5 6400 CL30 / 2133 fclk
Video Card(s)	RTX 4090 FE
Storage	2TB WD SN850, 4TB WD SN850X
Display(s)	Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case	Jonsbo Z20
Audio Device(s)	Yes
Power Supply	Corsair SF750
Mouse	DeathadderV2 X Hyperspeed
Keyboard	65% HE Keyboard
Software	Windows 11
Benchmark Scores	They're pretty good, nothing crazy.

Processor	Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard	Asus H670 TUF
Cooling	Arctic Freezer 34
Memory	2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s)	EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage	500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s)	Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case	Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s)	Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply	Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse	Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard	G.Skill KM780R
Software	Arch Linux + Win10

System Name	stress-less
Processor	9800X3D @ 5.42GHZ
Motherboard	MSI PRO B650M-A Wifi
Cooling	Thermalright Phantom Spirit EVO
Memory	64GB DDR5 6400 CL30 / 2133 fclk
Video Card(s)	RTX 4090 FE
Storage	2TB WD SN850, 4TB WD SN850X
Display(s)	Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case	Jonsbo Z20
Audio Device(s)	Yes
Power Supply	Corsair SF750
Mouse	DeathadderV2 X Hyperspeed
Keyboard	65% HE Keyboard
Software	Windows 11
Benchmark Scores	They're pretty good, nothing crazy.

System Name	Pioneer
Processor	Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard	GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory	64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage	Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s)	55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case	Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s)	TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse	Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard	WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software	Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024

First Windows 11 Patch Tuesday Makes Ryzen L3 Cache Latency Worse, AMD Puts Out Fix Dates

bug

phanbuey

zlobby

bug

phanbuey

lexluthermiester

zlobby

R-T-B

phanbuey

zlobby

lexluthermiester

windwhirl

Releasing Windows 11 Build 22000.282 to Beta and Release Preview Channels

The Windows Insider Program

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

lexluthermiester

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

lexluthermiester

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

Selaya

lexluthermiester

zlobby

windwhirl

lexluthermiester

ThrashZone

maxfly

Windows 11 Insider patch fixes major AMD Ryzen bug

Selaya

System Name	System V
Processor	AMD Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard	Asus Prime X570-P
Cooling	Cooler Master Hyper 212 // a bunch of 120 mm Xigmatek 1500 RPM fans (2 ins, 3 outs)
Memory	2x8GB Ballistix Sport LT 3200 MHz (BLS8G4D32AESCK.M8FE) (CL16-18-18-36)
Video Card(s)	Gigabyte AORUS Radeon RX 580 8 GB
Storage	SHFS37A240G / DT01ACA200 / ST10000VN0008 / ST8000VN004 / SA400S37960G / SNV21000G / NM620 2TB
Display(s)	LG 22MP55 IPS Display
Case	NZXT Source 210
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G430 Headset
Power Supply	Corsair CX650M
Software	Whatever build of Windows 11 is being served in Canary channel at the time.
Benchmark Scores	Corona 1.3: 3120620 r/s Cinebench R20: 3355 FireStrike: 12490 TimeSpy: 4624

System Name	Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor	Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard	Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling	Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory	2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s)	Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage	2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s)	Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) \| Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) \| Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case	Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G560 \| Corsair Void pro RGB \|Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply	Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse	Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard	Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD	Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software	Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores	Nyooom.

System Name	Ghetto Rigs z490\|x99\|Acer 17 Nitro 7840hs/ 5600c40-2x16/ 4060/ 1tb acer stock m.2/ 4tb sn850x
Processor	10900k w/Optimus Foundation \| 5930k w/Black Noctua D15
Motherboard	z490 Maximus XII Apex \| x99 Sabertooth
Cooling	oCool D5 res-combo/280 GTX/ Optimus Foundation/ gpu water block \| Blk D15
Memory	Trident-Z Royal 4000c16 2x16gb \| Trident-Z 3200c14 4x8gb
Video Card(s)	Titan Xp-water \| evga 980ti gaming-w/ air
Storage	970evo+500gb & sn850x 4tb \| 860 pro 256gb \| Acer m.2 1tb/ sn850x 4tb\| Many2.5" sata's ssd 3.5hdd's
Display(s)	1-AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz/ 2nd 1-ASUS VG248QE 24"/ 3rd LG 43" series
Case	D450 \| Cherry Entertainment center on Test bench
Audio Device(s)	Built in Realtek x2 with 2-Insignia 2.0 sound bars & 1-LG sound bar
Power Supply	EVGA 1000P2 with APC AX1500 \| 850P2 with CyberPower-GX1325U
Mouse	Redragon 901 Perdition x3
Keyboard	G710+x3
Software	Win-7 pro x3 and win-10 & 11pro x3
Benchmark Scores	Are in the benchmark section

System Name	DadsBadAss
Processor	I7 13700k w/ HEATKILLER IV PRO Copper Nickel
Motherboard	MSI Z790 Tomahawk Wifi DDR4
Cooling	BarrowCH Boxfish 200mm-HWLabs SR2 420/GTX&GTS 360-BP Dual D5 MOD TOP- 2x Koolance PMP 450S
Memory	4x8gb HyperX Predator RGB DDR4 4000
Video Card(s)	Asrock 6800xt PG D w/ Byski A-AR6900XT-X
Storage	WD SN850x 1TB NVME M.2/Adata XPG SX8200 PRO 1TB NVMe M.2
Display(s)	Acer XG270HU
Case	ThermalTake X71 w/5 Noctua NF-A14 2000 IP67 PWM/3 Noctua NF-F12 2000 IP67 PWM/3 CorsairML120 Pro RGB
Audio Device(s)	Klipsch Promedia 2.1
Power Supply	Seasonic Focus PX-850 w/CableMod PRO ModMesh RT-Series Black/Blue
Mouse	Logitech G502
Keyboard	Black Aluminun Mechanical Clicky Thing With Blue LEDs, hows that for a name?!
Software	Win11pro