Windows 11 General Discussion

freeagent · Nov 2, 2021

For me it runs fine. Games fine, internets fine, but L3 is still very low. Not as pitiful as it was, but I should be approaching 1000GB/s in L3 performance in Aida, but I am in the lower to mid hundreds. I haven't run my 5600X with 11 yet, but I can say even that was getting higher numbers that what I am seeing now lol. Whatever.. I'm sure it will get fixed at some point.. I hope.

phanbuey · Nov 2, 2021

freeagent said:
For me it runs fine. Games fine, internets fine, but L3 is still very low. Not as pitiful as it was, but I should be approaching 1000GB/s in L3 performance in Aida, but I am in the lower to mid hundreds. I haven't run my 5600X with 11 yet, but I can say even that was getting higher numbers that what I am seeing now lol. Whatever.. I'm sure it will get fixed at some point.. I hope.

I thought they fixed it?
Ryzen Is Fixed! Windows 10 VS Windows 11 (282 Patch) - YouTube

Did you turn off VBS (bcdedit /set hypervisorlaunchtype off)?
Windows 11 vs. Windows 10: Gaming, Application & Storage Benchmarks - YouTube

freeagent · Nov 2, 2021

phanbuey said:
I thought they fixed it?
Ryzen Is Fixed! Windows 10 VS Windows 11 (282 Patch) - YouTube

Did you turn off VBS?
Windows 11 vs. Windows 10: Gaming, Application & Storage Benchmarks - YouTube

I may have to look into that.. but no I didn’t turn anything off other than spread spectrum :oops:

phanbuey · Nov 2, 2021

freeagent said:
I may have to look into that.. but no I didn’t turn anything off other than spread spectrum

That's probably what's crushing FPS -- same thing happened to me on intel - it's virtualizing the kernel by default so there's all that extra overhead for gaming.

R-T-B · Nov 2, 2021

MxPhenom 216 said:
Hows Win 11 been for those of you with Ryzen systems? I know a bunch of updates have come from Microsoft and AMD fixing the L3 cache problem.

Honestly? Fine. Even without the patch. With the patch even more fine, because benchmarks look correct.

Mussels · Nov 2, 2021

phanbuey said:
I thought they fixed it?
Ryzen Is Fixed! Windows 10 VS Windows 11 (282 Patch) - YouTube

Did you turn off VBS (bcdedit /set hypervisorlaunchtype off)?
Windows 11 vs. Windows 10: Gaming, Application & Storage Benchmarks - YouTube

Wait, whats the details on this?
I only just turned virtualisation on to test something else, is that what its about?

phanbuey · Nov 2, 2021

Mussels said:
Wait, whats the details on this?
I only just turned virtualisation on to test something else, is that what its about?

So short version is if you turn on Virtualization in your bios Windows 11 automatically enables Virtualization Based Security (VBS) on a fresh install (you can see if it's running in system info). In later versions of windows 10 this happened if you installed Hyper V, then VBS and some other background virtualization would turn on.

This basically eliminates anywhere from 0-15% FPS in games, robs you of some cache and CPU performance, and basically adds an additional layer of overhead -- for example for me, shadow of the Tomb raider goes from 152FPS min and 160FPS 5% lows to 132 FPS min and 142 5% lows, losing about 10FPS on average at 1080P with just that one setting.

Basically anyone that runs WSL2/VMS/Docker and games on the same system is automatically virtualizing their Kernel and has been for a while -- so the trick is to keep your VMs running just disable the Hyper V auto start with that bcdedit command in powershell and start all of your VMs explicitly (i use virtualbox -- works great).

Windows 11 with VBS is extra painful because it also enables all of the memory integrity and control flow options along with this, and babysits memory IO as the game is running. Disabling all of these things feels like a mini processor upgrade.

Mussels · Nov 2, 2021

phanbuey said:
So short version is if you turn on Virtualization in your bios Windows 11 automatically enables Virtualization Based Security (VBS) on a fresh install (you can see if it's running in system info). In later versions of windows 10 this happened if you installed Hyper V, then VBS and some other background virtualization would turn on.

This basically eliminates anywhere from 0-15% FPS in games, robs you of some cache and CPU performance, and basically adds an additional layer of overhead -- for example for me, shadow of the Tomb raider goes from 152FPS min and 160FPS 5% lows to 132 FPS min and 142 5% lows, losing about 10FPS on average at 1080P with just that one setting.

Basically anyone that runs VMS/Docker and games on the same system is automatically virtualizing their Kernel and has been for a while -- so the trick is to keep your VMs running just disable the Hyper V auto start with that bcdedit command in powershell and start all of your VMs explicitly (i use virtualbox -- works great).

See i turned that on and installed Hyper-V today to test something, fortunately it didnt enable those things for me - they were off by default

phanbuey · Nov 2, 2021

Mussels said:
See i turned that on and installed Hyper-V today to test something, fortunately it didnt enable those things for me - they were off by default

Best way to test is to turn off Virtualization in the Bios - run a benchmark (SOTR trial works great), then turn it back on and run the bench again - if you see 10-15FPS drop in the CPU game column you know they got turned on in the background.

R-T-B · Nov 2, 2021

For fun, AMD 5800X with DDR-3200 Samsung C-Die with 8ranks AIDA64 cachemem benchmark with VBS on/off

off:

on:

lexluthermiester · Nov 2, 2021

Flanker said:
Was all smooth, except the snip and sketch tool broke lol

That's one of the first things I uninstall. No big loss IMO.

Flanker said:
Thankfully I don't need to do screenshots too often.

Buttons on your keyboard: Shift + PrintScreen(likely just Prt Scr). Then open up Paint or whatever image editor you prefer and paste or hit Ctrl + V.

R-T-B said:
For fun, AMD 5800X with DDR-3200 Samsung C-Die with 8ranks AIDA64 cachemem benchmark with VBS on/off

Unless VBS is needed it needs to be off by default. Most users don't need VBS.

Mussels · Nov 2, 2021

Whats wrong with Win+shift+S?

Works for me on 10 and 11, and always has?

Chomiq · Nov 2, 2021

Is there an option to turn on small taskbar icons in W11? From the screenshot I saw it looks like you can only use big icons which means it's going to take a lot of desktop real estate when paired with <=FHD screens.

lexluthermiester · Nov 2, 2021

Mussels said:
Whats wrong with Win+shift+S?

What does that do? I just tried it, did nothing..

Splinterdog · Nov 2, 2021

lexluthermiester said:
What does that do? I just tried it, did nothing..

On Win 10 it's for taking a screenshot using Snip.

phanbuey · Nov 2, 2021

R-T-B said:
For fun, AMD 5800X with DDR-3200 Samsung C-Die with 8ranks AIDA64 cachemem benchmark with VBS on/off

off:

View attachment 223326

on:

View attachment 223327

Can u run cpu queen virtualization on / off in bios? I’m wondering if zen 3 has the same impact as intel.

it’s not only vbs there seem other components that get impacted and drain performance

windwhirl · Nov 2, 2021

Chomiq said:
Is there an option to turn on small taskbar icons in W11? From the screenshot I saw it looks like you can only use big icons which means it's going to take a lot of desktop real estate when paired with <=FHD screens.

I don't think there is. Not built-in at least.

There was this registry edit that could change that, but some are saying that it no longer works.

How to Change the Taskbar Size in Windows 11

You can get small, medium or large taskbar and icons.

www.tomshardware.com

phanbuey said:
Windows 11 with VBS is extra painful because it also enables all of the memory integrity and control flow options along with this,

Weird. I had to enable memory integrity manually last time I tested that. I guess Microsoft changed the default behavior later.

lexluthermiester said:
What does that do? I just tried it, did nothing..

Splinterdog said:
On Win 10 it's for taking a screenshot using Snip.

It has the same function on Windows 11.

lexluthermiester · Nov 2, 2021

Splinterdog said:
On Win 10 it's for taking a screenshot using Snip.

Ah. That wouldn't have worked for me as I was only ever running LTSB/LTSC. It seems that it also works the same in 11, but as I remove most of the built in apps... No big loss. Shift+PrtScr has worked fine for decades and will continue to do so.

windwhirl said:
There was this registry edit that could change that, but some are saying that it no longer works.

How to Change the Taskbar Size in Windows 11

You can get small, medium or large taskbar and icons.

www.tomshardware.com

They moved the registry entry. Use WinAeroTweaker to adjust taskbar size.

theFOoL · Nov 2, 2021

Snip tool is on the LTSC version

windwhirl · Nov 2, 2021

theFOoL said:
Snip tool is on the LTSC version

Eh, they were moving that to the Store too, so I'm not sure if it will remain as a standalone inside LTSC Windows for long.

theFOoL · Nov 2, 2021

windwhirl said:
Eh, they were moving that to the Store too, so I'm not sure if it will remain as a standalone inside LTSC Windows for long.

Only time will tell man. I can't see why they would...

I mean I have the store version on my WiN10 drive. Just new UI

lexluthermiester · Nov 2, 2021

theFOoL said:
Snip tool is on the LTSC version

I don't remember it being there, but then again, I might have removed it without a second thought...

theFOoL said:
I can't see why they would...

Because it's useless?

freeagent · Nov 3, 2021

R-T-B said:
For fun, AMD 5800X with DDR-3200 Samsung C-Die with 8ranks AIDA64 cachemem benchmark with VBS on/off

off:

View attachment 223326

on:

View attachment 223327

Mine is broken still.. that 229 moves around. Could be write or copy. Dammit Asus, AMD, whoever

Virtualization was disabled so idkwtf.

Its like when Apple downclocks your SOC.. great, thanks..

Wait.. I upgraded from 10.. not a clean install because I like it dirty. Should I try a clean install? Cleanliness is godliness right?

Edit:

Forgot the screen cap

lexluthermiester · Nov 3, 2021

freeagent said:
Should I try a clean install? Cleanliness is godliness right?

Couldn't hurt to give it a try. I've been seeing other issues with upgrades and as such have been recommending fresh installs as a general rule.

Edit: use a spare drive though.

Mussels · Nov 3, 2021

lexluthermiester said:
What does that do? I just tried it, did nothing..

It's the built in snipping tool for 10 and 11...

Processor	AMD R7 5800X3D
Motherboard	Asus Crosshair VIII Dark Hero
Cooling	Thermalright Frozen Edge 360, 3x TL-B12 V2, 2x TL-B12 V1
Memory	2x8 G.Skill Trident Z Royal 3200C14, 2x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Black and White 3200 C14
Video Card(s)	Zotac 4070 Ti Trinity OC
Storage	WD SN850 1TB, SN850X 2TB, SN770 1TB
Display(s)	LG 50UP7100
Case	Fractal Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s)	JBL Bar 700
Power Supply	Seasonic Vertex GX-1000, Monster HDP1800
Mouse	Logitech G502 Hero
Keyboard	Logitech G213
VR HMD	Oculus 3
Software	Yes
Benchmark Scores	Yes

System Name	stress-less
Processor	9800X3D @ 5.42GHZ
Motherboard	MSI PRO B650M-A Wifi
Cooling	Thermalright Phantom Spirit EVO
Memory	64GB DDR5 6400 1:1 CL30-36-36-76 FCLK 2200
Video Card(s)	RTX 4090 FE
Storage	2TB WD SN850, 4TB WD SN850X
Display(s)	Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case	Jonsbo Z20
Audio Device(s)	Yes
Power Supply	Corsair SF750
Mouse	DeathadderV2 X Hyperspeed
Keyboard	65% HE Keyboard
Software	Windows 11
Benchmark Scores	They're pretty good, nothing crazy.

Processor	AMD R7 5800X3D
Motherboard	Asus Crosshair VIII Dark Hero
Cooling	Thermalright Frozen Edge 360, 3x TL-B12 V2, 2x TL-B12 V1
Memory	2x8 G.Skill Trident Z Royal 3200C14, 2x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Black and White 3200 C14
Video Card(s)	Zotac 4070 Ti Trinity OC
Storage	WD SN850 1TB, SN850X 2TB, SN770 1TB
Display(s)	LG 50UP7100
Case	Fractal Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s)	JBL Bar 700
Power Supply	Seasonic Vertex GX-1000, Monster HDP1800
Mouse	Logitech G502 Hero
Keyboard	Logitech G213
VR HMD	Oculus 3
Software	Yes
Benchmark Scores	Yes

System Name	stress-less
Processor	9800X3D @ 5.42GHZ
Motherboard	MSI PRO B650M-A Wifi
Cooling	Thermalright Phantom Spirit EVO
Memory	64GB DDR5 6400 1:1 CL30-36-36-76 FCLK 2200
Video Card(s)	RTX 4090 FE
Storage	2TB WD SN850, 4TB WD SN850X
Display(s)	Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case	Jonsbo Z20
Audio Device(s)	Yes
Power Supply	Corsair SF750
Mouse	DeathadderV2 X Hyperspeed
Keyboard	65% HE Keyboard
Software	Windows 11
Benchmark Scores	They're pretty good, nothing crazy.

System Name	Pioneer
Processor	Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard	GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory	64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage	Intel 5800X Optane 800GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s)	55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case	Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s)	TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse	Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard	WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software	Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024

Windows 11 General Discussion

freeagent

Moderator

phanbuey

freeagent

Moderator

phanbuey

R-T-B

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

phanbuey

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

phanbuey

R-T-B

lexluthermiester

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

Chomiq

lexluthermiester

Splinterdog

phanbuey

windwhirl

How to Change the Taskbar Size in Windows 11

lexluthermiester

How to Change the Taskbar Size in Windows 11

theFOoL

windwhirl

theFOoL

lexluthermiester

freeagent

Moderator

lexluthermiester

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

System Name	Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor	Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard	Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling	Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory	2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s)	Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage	2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s)	Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) \| Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) \| Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case	Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G560 \| Corsair Void pro RGB \|Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply	Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse	Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard	Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD	Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software	Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores	Nyooom.

Processor	Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Motherboard	Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite
Cooling	Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE
Memory	2x16 GB Crucial Ballistix 3600 CL16 Rev E @ 3600 CL14
Video Card(s)	RTX3080 Ti FE
Storage	SX8200 Pro 1 TB, Plextor M6Pro 256 GB, WD Blue 2TB
Display(s)	LG 34GN850P-B
Case	SilverStone Primera PM01 RGB
Audio Device(s)	SoundBlaster G6 \| Fidelio X2 \| Sennheiser 6XX
Power Supply	SeaSonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse	Endgame Gear XM1R
Keyboard	Wooting Two HE

System Name	Ryzen Monster
Processor	Ryzen 7 5700X3D
Motherboard	Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VII WiFi
Cooling	Corsair H100i RGB Platinum
Memory	Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32GB (4x8GB) 3200Mhz CMW16GX4M2C3200C16
Video Card(s)	Asus ROG Strix RX5700XT OC 8Gb
Storage	WD Black 500GB NVMe 250Gb Samsung SSD, OCZ 500Gb SSD WD M.2 500Gb, plus three spinners up to 1.5Tb
Display(s)	LG 32GK650F-B 32" UltraGear™ QHD
Case	Cooler Master Storm Trooper
Audio Device(s)	Supreme FX on board
Power Supply	Corsair RM850X full modular
Mouse	Corsair Ironclaw wireless
Keyboard	Logitech G213
VR HMD	Headphones Logitech G533 wireless
Software	Windows 11 Start 11
Benchmark Scores	3DMark Time Spy 4532 (9258 March 2021, 9399 July 2021)

System Name	System V
Processor	AMD Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard	Asus Prime X570-P
Cooling	Cooler Master Hyper 212 // a bunch of 120 mm Xigmatek 1500 RPM fans (2 ins, 3 outs)
Memory	2x8GB Ballistix Sport LT 3200 MHz (BLS8G4D32AESCK.M8FE) (CL16-18-18-36)
Video Card(s)	Gigabyte AORUS Radeon RX 580 8 GB
Storage	SHFS37A240G / DT01ACA200 / ST10000VN0008 / ST8000VN004 / SA400S37960G / SNV21000G / NM620 2TB
Display(s)	LG 22MP55 IPS Display
Case	NZXT Source 210
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G430 Headset
Power Supply	Corsair CX650M
Software	Whatever build of Windows 11 is being served in Canary channel at the time.
Benchmark Scores	Corona 1.3: 3120620 r/s Cinebench R20: 3355 FireStrike: 12490 TimeSpy: 4624

System Name	BoX-Server \| 775PC
Processor	I3 3.5GHZ (3150) \| Modded Xeon E5450 (OC @3.60)
Motherboard	ASRock B85M-ITX \| ASUS P5Q-EM
Cooling	OEZM HSK \| 120MM Heatsink (2-FANs)
Memory	8GB DDR3 (2x4GB) \| 8GB DDR2 (4x2GB)
Video Card(s)	Onboard \| NVIDIA Quadro K2200 4GB
Storage	120GB SSD 1TB WD \| 120GB SSD 1TB Seagate 500GB HDD <<
Display(s)	DELL 17" LCD 1280x1024 \| ASUS 24" LCD IPS
Case	CoolerMaster 110 \| DIYPC N1e-SPORT
Audio Device(s)	Onboard
Power Supply	EVGA 550WATT \| Rosewill 530WATT
Mouse	Input-Director\| RoseWill FUSION C40
Keyboard	Input-Director \| RoseWill FUSION
Software	WiN1124H2/WiN11ET