Alder Lake CPUs common discussion

[GerKNG]

anyone with a 12600k got an idea why the CPU constantly drops clocks on single cores as soon as you are above 4.8 Ghz?
it has nothing to do with powerlimits, AVX offsets, fll OC modes to compensate the broken clock speed reports, TVB Clipping, current excursion protections or anything else related to power, thermals or offsets.

it begins at 4.9 Ghz by dropping it back to 4.8.
above that it is always a 200Mhz drop:
4.8 GHz = 4.8 for ever.
4.9 Ghz = 4.8 every couple seconds on 1-2 cores under normal load like gaming (heavy load like rendering does it way less often)
5Ghz = 5 Ghz dropping to 4.8.
5.1 Ghz = 5.1 Ghz dropping to 4.9
5.2 Ghz = 5.2 Ghz dropping to 5.0
...

i saw it in optimum techs video about the 12600k as well. look at P Core #4

starts at 8:44

any ideas how to fix that?

 

[ir_cow]

Curious as to how much VCCSA for Gear 1 @2000MHz were you needing?


Also on a side note... My last/previous AIDA screenshot proved unstable at 5GHz all core. I think the -2 AVX offset and the FPU stress component was dropping too many cores down to 48x. I took the same settings and disabled the E-cores (for the WCG scheduling bug) and the OC quickly triggered "Watch Dog Timeouts" while running WCG load with 12 threads.
Currently running WCG @49x (12T) with ~1.25v load. I think I'm going to need better cooling to stabilize and run @50x all core.

I don't know for 2000MHz. I had it at 1.25v VCCSA for 2200MHz. The 1.4v was a hail marry just to see if I could get it into windows. Not something I would use daily personally. Not even sure if its stable. Just enough to get into windows.

 

[PolRoger]

anyone with a 12600k got an idea why the CPU constantly drops clocks on single cores as soon as you are above 4.8 Ghz?
it has nothing to do with powerlimits, AVX offsets, fll OC modes to compensate the broken clock speed reports, TVB Clipping, current excursion protections or anything else related to power, thermals or offsets.

it begins at 4.9 Ghz by dropping it back to 4.8.
above that it is always a 200Mhz drop:
4.8 GHz = 4.8 for ever.
4.9 Ghz = 4.8 every couple seconds on 1-2 cores under normal load like gaming (heavy load like rendering does it way less often)
5Ghz = 5 Ghz dropping to 4.8.
5.1 Ghz = 5.1 Ghz dropping to 4.9
5.2 Ghz = 5.2 Ghz dropping to 5.0
...

i saw it in optimum techs video about the 12600k as well. look at P Core #4

starts at 8:44

any ideas how to fix that?

I'm not sure if it is something similar... But I did noticed ~200MHz core drops when enabling AIDA FPU @50x.
I was thinking it was some kind of BIOS auto AVX offset? As it doesn't do that with just AIDA CPU enabled. You might try and disable the E-cores and test just the P-cores with your board to see if it still does it? I'm not seeing any MHz drop at all while running WCG @49x (12T).

 

[ir_cow]

4000 1:1 . I just enabled XMP on this Crucial Ballistix MAX for convenience. Don't care about timings yet.

Edit: Just tried 1T. Works as well.

 

[15th Warlock]

Another review showing the difference between DDR4 and DDR5 in terms of performance, or lack thereof...

What I find funny is, a couple of these videos use one of the lowest end Asus boards for DDR4, and usually they pit that against a high end, expensive board, in most cases the difference is a couple percent points only, even accounting for the memory difference.

 

[chrcoluk]

5600X getting trounced by the 12600K using DDR4, and in some cases even the 5800X gets creamed; no, it's not thanks to DDR5 as you can see.

And if you have the right cooler, power consumption really is a non issue after all.

I never said it was all down to DDR5, please dont mix my words.

The new release is a mixture of a new cpu architecture and major chipset changes.

Also if you want me to check content please give me the point to skip to on the video or a text article thanks, not got time to watch a 20 minute video which is mostly slides.

Also in regards to power some of us live in a country with really expensive electric that is supply constrained and also want to have more greener levels of power usage, the issue is not about having the right psu etc.

Another review showing the difference between DDR4 and DDR5 in terms of performance, or lack thereof...

What I find funny is, a couple of these videos use one of the lowest end Asus boards for DDR4, and usually they pit that against a high end, expensive board, in most cases the difference is a couple percent points only, even accounting for the memory difference.

Shame he didnt put older gen cpu's on the same graph, as we dont have the baseline data otherwise, media reviewers really need to think about what they doing here, is often corners cut to get content out quicker.

So he needed on those graphs.

11900k with ddr4
12900k with ddr4
12900k with ddr5

was pointless putting the 12600k on there as well as it wasnt tested with ddr4.

So yes only a few percentage, but we dont know the overall percentage as it wasnt put on the graph (unless we watch/read another review).

If I was upgrading today I very likely would be going ddr4, better latency and huge cost saving, which would potentially offset replacing the board with ddr5 at a later date after ddr5 prices drop.

 

[GerKNG]

I'm not sure if it is something similar... But I did noticed ~200MHz core drops when enabling AIDA FPU @50x.
I was thinking it was some kind of BIOS auto AVX offset? As it doesn't do that with just AIDA CPU enabled. You might try and disable the E-cores and test just the P-cores with your board to see if it still does it? I'm not seeing any MHz drop at all while running WCG @49x (12T).

I have everything that could possibly influence the clock speed disabled in the bios.
And if it would be a bios setting. Why is it only above 4.8... it basically makes overclocking for games useless

 

[Outback Bronze]

I have everything that could possibly influence the clock speed disabled in the bios.
And if it would be a bios setting. Why is it only above 4.8... it basically makes overclocking for games useless

What OS you running it on? On my 11700K ive been playing around with I could not get clocks above 4.8/9Ghz AC no matter what bios setting I had. Believe it or not it was the power setting in windows I had to change to get it to clock further. That was on Win 10. You tried the power settings in windows yet?

 

[GerKNG]

What OS you running it on? On my 11700K ive been playing around with I could not get clocks above 4.8/9Ghz AC no matter what bios setting I had. Believe it or not it was the power setting in windows I had to change to get it to clock further. That was on Win 10. You tried the power settings in windows yet?

windows 11 pro
i tried power plans and basically everything you can do in the bios.
i flashed it again, installed everything that intel provides for Z690/ADL.
above 4.8 all core = dropping to 4.8 or 200Mhz when at 5.1
pretty sad since i think my 12600k is pretty decent... it runs P95 at around 1.28V load VCore @ 5Ghz/4.1Ghz/4.1Ghz (P/E/Ring)
but even in P95 it barely drops to 4.8 at all. in games it's all over the place.

 

[PolRoger]

windows 11 pro
i tried power plans and basically everything you can do in the bios.
i flashed it again, installed everything that intel provides for Z690/ADL.
above 4.8 all core = dropping to 4.8 or 200Mhz when at 5.1
pretty sad since i think my 12600k is pretty decent... it runs P95 at around 1.28V load VCore @ 5Ghz/4.1Ghz/4.1Ghz (P/E/Ring)
but even in P95 it barely drops to 4.8 at all. in games it's all over the place.

Maybe it is something BIOS related? We are both running Gigabyte DDR4 boards?...
It is still quite early with ADL. I'm wondering if this also happens with the new i7/i9 cpus?? How about other board manufacturers? I not much of a gamer so I can't really test that aspect but I'm going to continue to see if I can notice this happening while running/testing. The WCG W10 scheduling bug is kind of a bummer but that should get sorted out eventually. I've been running overnight 6c/12T all P-core load (E-core disabled) @49x with ~1.25v Vcore and HWiNFO shows @4.9GHz with no drops. If I turn off WCG and idle it just sits/maintains at 4.9GHz.

Edit: It could also somehow be software reporting related... ADL is new and I would expect refinements/improvements to upcoming beta HWiNFO release versions.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Seems like people over at overclock.net are having a lot of success overclocking both DDR4 and DDR5 on Z690.

This one on DDR4 reportedly couldn't get 3866 to work before, but on ADL has it running DDR4-4100 C14 . And this is with a relatively cheap Strix D4 :

This guy OC'd some DDR5-4800 to 6200 C32. The total latency here 51.5ns total is right in line with the DDR4-4100 C14 above. This is on an ultra-expensive Apex though ($840).

DDR5-6600 CL32 Trident-Z spotted :

Thinking that within a year, DDR5 is going to dust DDR4. Not yet, but not that far off.

 

[GerKNG]

Maybe it is something BIOS related? We are both running Gigabyte DDR4 boards?...
It is still quite early with ADL. I'm wondering if this also happens with the new i7/i9 cpus?? How about other board manufacturers? I not much of a gamer so I can't really test that aspect but I'm going to continue to see if I can notice this happening while running/testing. The WCG W10 scheduling bug is kind of a bummer but that should get sorted out eventually. I've been running overnight 6c/12T all P-core load (E-core disabled) @49x with ~1.25v Vcore and HWiNFO shows @4.9GHz with no drops. If I turn off WCG and idle it just sits/maintains at 4.9GHz.

Edit: It could also somehow be software reporting related... ADL is new and I would expect refinements/improvements to upcoming beta HWiNFO release versions.

i made two screenshots to show what i mean.
i don't think that it is a software problem
why should it only be a thing above 4.8 and then specifically 100 Mhz at 4.9 and then 200Mhz above 4.9.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

View attachment 224308

4000 1:1 . I just enabled XMP on this Crucial Ballistix MAX for convenience. Don't care about timings yet.

Edit: Just tried 1T. Works as well.

AIDA64 displaying "0.0 ns"?

If I was upgrading today I very likely would be going ddr4, better latency and huge cost saving, which would potentially offset replacing the board with ddr5 at a later date after ddr5 prices drop.

Reminds me of LGA 775, when both DDR2 and DDR3 existed. The last time Intel did this, were with off-die RAM controller CPUs. Did Intel put them back on the motherboard? LOL.

It's like me in 2013, when I chose a motherboard with DDR2, because I couldn't afford more RAM on top of that!

 

[seth1911]

Thats wrong with 1151/v2 u could use DDR3 too, but only Asrock and Biostar had cheap boards for them.

I have here a H310 with 2x DDR3 it worked fine with a 9700 , but i had to give the 9700 back to a friend

 

[PolRoger]

i made two screenshots to show what i mean.
i don't think that it is a software problem
why should it only be a thing above 4.8 and then specifically 100 Mhz at 4.9 and then 200Mhz above 4.9.

I see what your saying and I can see it on my setup too while running AIDA stress at P49x/E38x... As early adopters I guess we'll have to deal with some issues that can hopefully get sorted out.

BTW... I download a newly released "beta" HWiNFO today.

 

[GerKNG]

I see what your saying and I can see it on my setup too while running AIDA stress at P49x/E38x... As early adopters I guess we'll have to deal with some issues that can hopefully get sorted out.

BTW... I download a newly released "beta" HWiNFO today.

View attachment 224418

i really hope this gets sorted out quickly. until this is fixed i run my 12600k at 4.8 (almost 100mv less Vcore and the performance is barely different)

 

[ir_cow]

AIDA64 displaying "0.0 ns"?

That is normal if you leave core integrity enabled.

 

[phanbuey]

So got my new chip in tonight and slapped it into the rig asap -- holy crap it's fast.

So far passing stability on the MSI-PRO A z690 at 5.2 ghz - temps dont go beyond 82 C in a hot af room (81F) in stress.

Havent touched memory or ring... going to stabilize core at 5.2/5.1 first.

 

[lexluthermiester]

holy crap it's fast.

Yeah it is. Damn.

Havent touched memory or ring... going to stabilize core at 5.2/5.1 first.

Been watching OCing efforts elsewhere on the net and Alder Lake seems to have a general 5.1/5.2 ceiling. If you can get 5.1 out of it without high voltage, call it a day.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Just got 1400 quid to blow, so i'm gonna get a 12600k with a z690 D4 board. so looking forward to it. Only thing is, i'll have to get a lga1700 compatible water block too for my loop.

 

[GerKNG]

If you can get 5.1 out of it without high voltage, call it a day.

but what is the new high or safe voltage compared to 14nm?
not that we end like with Zen 2 where people pumped 1.4V+ with high LLC into their 3700
normally i'd go (max) 50-100mv above stock.

 

[15th Warlock]

I got my Asus Strix D4 board last night, I just returned the DDR5 version of this very same board. Now I’m just waiting for the retrofit kit for my AIO cooler to put my system together.

Question to the pros in this thread, are you enabling XMP profiles on your BIOS in order to run your RAM at Gear 1? Or are you manually setting the timings for your particular memory kits?

Any help with this will be greatly appreciated!

 

[GerKNG]

I got my Asus Strix D4 board last night, I just returned the DDR5 version of this very same board. Now I’m just waiting for the retrofit kit for my AIO cooler to put my system together.

Question to the pros in this thread, are you enabling XMP profiles on your BIOS in order to run your RAM at Gear 1? Or are you manually setting the timings for your particular memory kits?

Any help with this will be greatly appreciated!

View attachment 224516

XMP up to 3200 runs at gear 1
you have to set it manually when you go above it.
intel seems to have a locked stock voltage for VCCSA now instead of justing going crazy with auto voltages.
if you run a 3600 Kit you need ~ 1.1V VCCSA to run at gear 1.

i just set XMP (3600 C16), Gear 1 and 1.1V SA. without the SA at 1.1V i can't even post.

 

[15th Warlock]

XMP up to 3200 runs at gear 1
you have to set it manually when you go above it.
intel seems to have a locked stock vcore for VCCSA now instead of justing going crazy with auto voltages.
if you run a 3600 Kit you need ~ 1.1V VCCSA to run at gear 1.

i just set XMP (3600 C16), Gear 1 and 1.1V SA. without the SA at 1.1V i can't even post.

Thank you so much for your response! so with your kit, running at 3200 allowed you to run at tighter CAS latency timings?

So got my new chip in tonight and slapped it into the rig asap -- holy crap it's fast.

View attachment 224467

View attachment 224468
View attachment 224469

So far passing stability on the MSI-PRO A z690 at 5.2 ghz - temps dont go beyond 82 C in a hot af room (81F) in stress.

Havent touched memory or ring... going to stabilize core at 5.2/5.1 first.

View attachment 224470

View attachment 224471View attachment 224472

I love your system! Super clean build!

 

[RandallFlagg]

i really hope this gets sorted out quickly. until this is fixed i run my 12600k at 4.8 (almost 100mv less Vcore and the performance is barely different)

This may be relevant. I don't know these are adjustable, possibly hidden BIOS settings :

• Power Limit 3 (PL3): A threshold that if exceeded, the PL3 rapid power limiting algorithms will attempt to limit the duty cycle of spikes above PL3 by reactively limiting frequency. This is an optional setting
• Power Limit 4 (PL4): A limit that will not be exceeded, the PL4 power limiting algorithms will preemptively limit frequency to prevent spikes above PL4.
• Turbo Time Parameter (Tau): An averaging constant used for PL1 exponential weighted moving average (EWMA) power calculation.