Alder Lake CPUs common discussion

[phanbuey]

Hey what brand of memory is that?

I think I'm going to upgrade my storage to a single m.2 2TB and my RAM to DDR4-4000, was looking at some Trident Z F4-4000C18D-32GTZR. Those timings you have are pretty tight compared to the memory I was looking at though.

Teamgroup Dark Pro - samsung b die... just got it to 4000 17 17 17 36 -- great kit

TEAMGROUP T-Force Dark Pro Samsung IC 16GB Kit (2x8GB) DDR4 Dram 3200MHz (PC4-25600) CL14 Desktop Memory Module Ram (Gray) - TDPGD416G3200HC14ADC01 at Amazon.com

This is the kit

 

[AlwaysHope]

Air pockets are almost a myth these days. It's just not going to happen.

Interesting use of the word "almost". Does not rule out "never".

Not sure I understand you there matey? Are you talking about the type of application I applied? I do a line down the middle of the CPU.

I was just testing to make sure the TIM "did" get compressed between the CPU and HSF as the bracket for the Noctua is not made for socket 1700 and so far its working sweet once I did a proper application of TIM.

As soon as the HS makes contact with the TIM after you've applied it to the top of the cpu, NEVER lift it off, even slightly unless you want to do a complete remount & another dose of your TIM. That's an invitation for air to get in & thus get trapped. Air being a great conductor of heat is not a good idea to introduce here.

 

[Outback Bronze]

NEVER lift it off,

I didn't mate. It was just to show you guys (and myself for that matter) that the old HSF made contact with the TIM on a new socket. I seem to have confused a few people here. I did state "made sure paste was squished" and showed pictures. lol im trying to help you guys

remount & another dose of your TIM

That's exactly what I did.

 

[The King]

E-Cores only Gaming test.

Spoiler: The E-Cores were not meant to be used This Way... but it's Amazing!

 

[chrcoluk]

Seen debauer video on the e-cores they like a 7700k core so way more powerful than the old atom cores. The size increase on the cores to get that 40% or so IPC improvement shows how hard it is to get the recent performance gains.

 

[JustBenching]

Hey what brand of memory is that?

I think I'm going to upgrade my storage to a single m.2 2TB and my RAM to DDR4-4000, was looking at some Trident Z F4-4000C18D-32GTZR. Those timings you have are pretty tight compared to the memory I was looking at though.

Don't get the c18, those are not bdie. Either go for the 4000c16 which are relatively cheap, or if you wanna go balls to the wall you can go for the 4000c14, but the pricing on them is insane. Also Vipers are always a good and cheap option

 

[lexluthermiester]

Interesting use of the word "almost". Does not rule out "never".

It leaves an allowance for the inexperienced who really screw things up putting on a heatsink improperly. It does happen from time to time. As a general rule anyone with even a shred of competence will get a TIM properly applied and a heatsink mounted to a CPU with the needed pressure/tension to ensure no air "pockets" or "bubbles" will be present when finished.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Don't get the c18, those are not bdie. Either go for the 4000c16 which are relatively cheap, or if you wanna go balls to the wall you can go for the 4000c14, but the pricing on them is insane. Also Vipers are always a good and cheap option

Yeah and I just realized those are single rank as well, what I currently have is dual rank.

 

[phanbuey]

Going to test a clean install of w11 later today to see if numbers are better

 

[looniam]

Interesting use of the word "almost". Does not rule out "never".

well, he does claim to be scientist ya' know - with statements like that . . .

 

[AlwaysHope]

I didn't mate. It was just to show you guys (and myself for that matter) that the old HSF made contact with the TIM on a new socket. I seem to have confused a few people here. I did state "made sure paste was squished" and showed pictures. lol im trying to help you guys



That's exactly what I did.

No prob. I just haven't seen anyone do that on a PC enthusiasts forum before. At least you had the guts to do that.

 

[Nike_486DX]

And all we needed was a core 2 duo, not another pentium 4 abomination. Lets imagine that this thread is about AMD FX discussing some questionable bulldozer/piledriver advantages, when in reality we should be talking about performance per w, and compare 5950X vs 12900K under continuous 100% load. And the fact that intel once again changed to yet another socket, without making major changes to the cpu itself (20 cores, 3nm how about that?)

 

[AlwaysHope]

And all we needed was a core 2 duo, not another pentium 4 abomination. Lets imagine that this thread is about AMD FX discussing some questionable bulldozer/piledriver advantages, when in reality we should be talking about performance per w, and compare 5950X vs 12900K under continuous 100% load. And the fact that intel once again changed to yet another socket, without making major changes to the cpu itself (20 cores, 3nm how about that?)

All good points there, especially 2 sockets in 1 year!

 

[Outback Bronze]

No prob. I just haven't seen anyone do that on a PC enthusiasts forum before. At least you had the guts to do that.

It was worth a shot wasn't it? What have I got to lose? And I wanted to set things up : )

Mate, I've been building PC's for like 20 years and done all sorts of mods, especially with water cooling. I'm the practical type.

 

[Psychoholic]

So my "LGA 1700" Kit from corsair for my H150i will be here tomorrow.
The "Kit" is just screws.. shorter I assume due to the shorter CPU in order to apply the correct mounting pressure.

Will be interesting to see if mounting pressure makes a difference. It is already 74C or so full load using the LGA1200 screws.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Will be interesting to see if mounting pressure makes a difference.

My guess is there will be little, if any.

 

[Psychoholic]

My guess is there will be little, if any.

Agreed.. but for $2.99 and free shipping we'll do it anyway

 

[RandallFlagg]

Don't get the c18, those are not bdie. Either go for the 4000c16 which are relatively cheap, or if you wanna go balls to the wall you can go for the 4000c14, but the pricing on them is insane. Also Vipers are always a good and cheap option

Well, in searching for truly good / fast DDR4 memory, one thing I learned.

It's not cheaper than DDR5, at least not for 32GB / 2x16GB sticks and comparing to DDR5 MSRP. 32GB DDR4-4000+ with CL18 and below start around $270.

I think if I were to go all out on a new build I'd want this instead :

 

[ir_cow]

@RandallFlagg make sure to get a MB that supports 6400! I'm hoping TeamGroup sends this kit to me for a proper review.

 

[RandallFlagg]

So this is the 2nd time I saw a gaming + streaming benchmark where 12900K was able to flex a bit. The other one was vs 5950X and the results were similar, almost twice as fast. Now we see why, looks like DDR5 should be the go-to choice for streamers and such :

Source : https://occlub.ru/testodrom/80697-hp-v10-rgb-ddr4-3600-2x-8-gb-obzor-chto-ona-ispolnjaet/4

 

[JustBenching]

Well, in searching for truly good / fast DDR4 memory, one thing I learned.

It's not cheaper than DDR5, at least not for 32GB / 2x16GB sticks and comparing to DDR5 MSRP. 32GB DDR4-4000+ with CL18 and below start around $270.

I think if I were to go all out on a new build I'd want this instead :

View attachment 225395

Well, a really good ddr4 kit can cost upwards of 500€ for 32gb. That is...a lot of money. Thing with ddr4 is, because of the maturity of them, you can get away with a cheaper kit and probably clock them to the same freequency and latency as the more expensive ones. My 4000c17 can be clocked to 4500c16, and that's an old ram with the old die that doesn't really clock that well. Nowadays all ram kits use the new die and are pretty good at ocing

Now with that said, I still went for a ddr5 + an apex. 1-2 years down the line i planto upgrade my ddr5 to something insane, beiing stuck with ddr4 mobo would suck

 

[Vayra86]

E-Cores only Gaming test.

Spoiler: The E-Cores were not meant to be used This Way... but it's Amazing!

He might say 'there is barely any load on P cores' but I'm seeing a constant 22% load on it while running his gaming load. And its not the only one either. This is not unlike what happens now, the fat gaming thread takes a full core. Not convinced here that there is an advantage or something 'amazing', just games that work better on threading due to the APIs.

And you're not telling me 22% on a P core is to run 'background tasks' while running a bench.

He's also seeing 66W package... which is not any kind of step forward for gaming on Intel. They used to deliver packages that maxed at 77W~65W that gamed perfectly, for over a decade now. So all we know is a big bunch of E cores will still need P core logic to function as they do. Its really an accelerator, more than a real core. Smart, but the advantage is still misty.

 

[lexluthermiester]

So this is the 2nd time I saw a gaming + streaming benchmark where 12900K was able to flex a bit. The other one was vs 5950X and the results were similar, almost twice as fast. Now we see why, looks like DDR5 should be the go-to choice for streamers and such :


View attachment 225478

Source : https://occlub.ru/testodrom/80697-hp-v10-rgb-ddr4-3600-2x-8-gb-obzor-chto-ona-ispolnjaet/4

Let's not over-react. That is one result out of all the others which show DDR4 has the advantage. Additionally, there might be a factor involved in the result that needs fleshing out.

It is very unwise to make a buying decision based on a single result that has not been seen by anyone else on the net.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Let's not over-react. That is one result out of all the others which show DDR4 has the advantage. Additionally, there might be a factor involved in the result that needs fleshing out.

It is very unwise to make a buying decision based on a single result that has not been seen by anyone else on the net.

Not the first time I saw that, there just aren't many benchmarks of gaming + streaming, not part of the cookie cutter tests most sites do. It seems that for gaming + streaming, DDR5 just takes over. The higher end DDR5 isn't slower than DDR4 either, just expensive (though, higher end DDR4 is also expensive - not talking a ton of $$ difference).

Edit: should probably also throw in like @ir_cow pointed out - the motherboard to support these speeds is also quite expensive.

ofc, high end DDR5 is unobtanium right now but I doubt it will remain that way.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Not the first time I saw that, there just aren't many benchmarks of gaming + streaming, not part of the cookie cutter tests most sites do. It seems that for gaming + streaming, DDR5 just takes over. The higher end DDR5 isn't slower than DDR4 either, just expensive (though, higher end DDR4 is also expensive - not talking a ton of $$ difference).

Edit: should probably also throw in like @ir_cow pointed out - the motherboard to support these speeds is also quite expensive.

ofc, high end DDR5 is unobtanium right now but I doubt it will remain that way.


View attachment 225521

For the time being, tight timing DDR4 out performs DDR5 in 99% of use-case-scenario's. That will of course change but not for another 18 to 24 months. Until then, DDR4 with tight timings is the smart choice.