NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Ti Founders Edition

[PapaTaipei]

I'd like to point out that the prices of the GPU market has nothing to do with crypto, as crypto mining is not efficient with GPU. It has everything to do with inflation and the fable of "Moore's law". They could have released 10 years ago sub nanometric semiconductors but you can't milk a market like that.

 

[nguyen]

"6700XT is a terrible deal" he says, suggesting people go and buy a worse deal.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have a 3060Ti, FFX is pretty close to DLSS in the games I've tried it in. I'd use neither unless I was hurting for FPS because neither of them are as quite as good as native.

I picked the 6700XT as one example of many, specifically I said "The cards you should actually buy if you don't want to be ripped off are way down at the bottom of the chart, cards like the 6700XT"

Don't try to make it like I'm recommending the 6700XT over everything else; I'm recommending ANY cards at the bottom quarter of that chart I've now linked for the third time. It's impressive how you manage to completely miss the point of "don't spend flagship money, but an upper mid-range card instead" and somehow turn it into a petty discussion of one mid-range card vs another, bickering over minor variations in regional pricing... :\

The cards you should actually buy if you don't want to be ripped off are way down at the bottom of the chart, and cards like the 6700XT are there, which are perfectly capable of playing games at 4K60 on near-maximum settings. All you have to do to get the 3090Ti experience without being ripped-off is swallow your ego and drop the settings down from the ultra preset to high on a card that costs 1/3rd as much. Probably. I don't know, I don't play every single game but I feel that high usually runs at least 50% better than ultra in most AAA titles and the 3090Ti is about 50% faster than a 6700XT on average.

LOL yeah so you would use lower settings in order to gain more FPS, but refusing to use DLSS nor FSR to gain FPS which are very effective at 4K, that's just pure hypocrisy. Litterally any GPU can use lower settings to gain FPS too, 3090 Ti included. BTW I'm playing Elden Ring and 4K Ultra look like crap and High look noticeably worse for only 10% more FPS, really wish it has DLSS.

IDK why you would compare a 6700XT to 3090Ti instead of a 3060Ti, since 3060Ti and 3090Ti share all features. So yeah maybe I mistook you for someone who would only buy AMD . Anyways I don't want to play games on a RX570 even if you pay me, price to performance at the bottom tier don't interest me.

 

[wolf]

Dear Nvidia,

Please ignore all the haters. All they do is complain.

I'm really impressed, its only $2000. Thanks NVIDIA!! you're the best I sold my car last time to get a 2080 TI. I'm your biggest fan. For the 3090 TI i'm now selling my house, YAY. Love you lots, can't wait for the 4080 TI so I can throw myself under a bus and claim compensation. Should be enough I hope.

Yours sincerely,

X X X
(thats not my name, *wink* *wink*)

You make it sound like unaffordable life saving medicine, it's a ridiculous luxury halo product meant for those with deep pockets and less sense / no cares or compromises.

I wont pretend like the market is affordable, but the 3090ti launched late in the gen, tops the outright performance charts at 4k, and represents the least value. This doesn't mean however, there aren't many other options in the meat of each camps lineups that are sane and offer reasonable value.

And don't think for a second if the camps were reversed, we wouldn't have a broadly equal product. This is the new world we live in, ultra boutique high end products and variations of products for those with deep pockets / will spend big for their niche and desires. It can and does suck, but I doubt its changing anytime soon.

 

[Valantar]

You make it sound like unaffordable life saving medicine, it's a ridiculous luxury halo product meant for those with deep pockets and less sense / no cares or compromises.

I wont pretend like the market is affordable, but the 3090ti launched late in the gen, tops the outright performance charts at 4k, and represents the least value. This doesn't mean however, there aren't many other options in the meat of each camps lineups that are sane and offer reasonable value.

And don't think for a second if the camps were reversed, we wouldn't have a broadly equal product. This is the new world we live in, ultra boutique high end products and variations of products for those with deep pockets / will spend big for their niche and desires. It can and does suck, but I doubt its changing anytime soon.

You're not entirely wrong, but the problem with this as a counterargument to the post you quoted is that it fails to address the ever-shifting prices of GPUs, the constant creep towards unaffordability and "premium"ness that we've seen for a decade now. "Well, what's the harm in also providing products to people with more money than sense?" you (and many others) would probably ask. The problem with that is that over time, this shifts the window of what is considered sensible pricing and overall value. And this is precisely what the corporations want - that over time, price increases outstrip inflation sufficiently to increase their margins, but sufficiently slowly that people fail to really notice that they're suddenly paying twice as much for the same product category as ten years ago. (Of course they also wholeheartedly embrace other factors pushing in the same direction, such as crypto.) The effects on consumer expectations and ideas of reasonable pricing are very different in a market where flagship, ultra-premium products are $700 than one where those products are $2000. And, to be clear, all notable effects from a change like this are negative towards mainstream users - less affordability/less value for cheaper products; an increased price floor for entry level products; increased fetishization of premium products (which has always been a massive issue in the PC hardware scene, but is only getting worse), and increased social pressure to over-spend in order to keep up.

 

[Chrispy_]

LOL yeah so you would use lower settings in order to gain more FPS, but refusing to use DLSS nor FSR to gain FPS which are very effective at 4K, that's just pure hypocrisy. Litterally any GPU can use lower settings to gain FPS too, 3090 Ti included. BTW I'm playing Elden Ring and 4K Ultra look like crap and High look noticeably worse for only 10% more FPS, really wish it has DLSS.

That really isn't what I said at all. "I'd use neither unless I was hurting for FPS" obviously means I'd enable it if I needed it to boost framerates, but prefer to run without it for a crisper, shimmer-free/artifact-free experience.

If you want to twist my words and make an argument where there is none, we're done here.

 

[nguyen]

You're not entirely wrong, but the problem with this as a counterargument to the post you quoted is that it fails to address the ever-shifting prices of GPUs, the constant creep towards unaffordability and "premium"ness that we've seen for a decade now. "Well, what's the harm in also providing products to people with more money than sense?" you (and many others) would probably ask. The problem with that is that over time, this shifts the window of what is considered sensible pricing and overall value. And this is precisely what the corporations want - that over time, price increases outstrip inflation sufficiently to increase their margins, but sufficiently slowly that people fail to really notice that they're suddenly paying twice as much for the same product category as ten years ago. (Of course they also wholeheartedly embrace other factors pushing in the same direction, such as crypto.) The effects on consumer expectations and ideas of reasonable pricing are very different in a market where flagship, ultra-premium products are $700 than one where those products are $2000. And, to be clear, all notable effects from a change like this are negative towards mainstream users - less affordability/less value for cheaper products; an increased price floor for entry level products; increased fetishization of premium products (which has always been a massive issue in the PC hardware scene, but is only getting worse), and increased social pressure to over-spend in order to keep up.

It's a free market, don't like it, don't buy it, Nvidia and AMD will get the memo when no once is buying their overpriced crap, heck even the 6500XT is considered overpriced despite how cheap it is.

If the free market decide that premium products are here to last, so be it. If gaming ever became too expensive for you, just stop gaming. Lol the PC gaming space was declared dead decade ago when cheap Consoles came out but here it is, still going strong.

 

[Chrispy_]

I sold my car last time to get a 2080 Ti

Username checks out

 

[nguyen]

That really isn't what I said at all. "I'd use neither unless I was hurting for FPS" obviously means I'd enable it if I needed it to boost framerates, but prefer to run without it for a crisper, shimmer-free/artifact-free experience.

If you want to twist my words and make an argument where there is none, we're done here.

LMAO, so you yourself is an "Native is best" elitist, yet saying others should just lower the settings to enjoy higher FPS, pure hypocrisy if you ask me.

BTW I enable DLSS when it's available, maybe I'm some DLSS peasant to you

 

[Chrispy_]

I'd like to point out that the prices of the GPU market has nothing to do with crypto, as crypto mining is not efficient with GPU. It has everything to do with inflation and the fable of "Moore's law". They could have released 10 years ago sub nanometric semiconductors but you can't milk a market like that.

Have you tried doing this yet?

LMAO, so you yourself is an "Native is best" elitist, yet saying others should just lower the settings to enjoy higher FPS, pure hypocrisy if you ask me.

BTW I enable DLSS when it's available, maybe I'm some DLSS peasant to you

Native is best, I don't think that's ever been up for debate, but once again, you're inferring stuff incorrectly that I never wrote, that seems to be a running theme with you.

I choose to lower the resolution instead of enabling DLSS in many instances. The TV I have is freesync up to 120Hz and my personal choice is to go for higher framerates at 1080p than to try an get playable framerates at 4K using upscalers. If I only had a 60Hz TV I'd probably choose DLSS more often.

If you refer back to this post, I think you'll find it changes nothing I care about.

You'd get into a lot fewer pointless and silly arguments off-topic if you stopped name-calling like a five year old and making baseless generalisations / incorrect assumptions about people you have no information on.

 

[nguyen]

Have you tried doing this yet?


View attachment 245763


Native is best, I don't think that's ever been up for debate, but once again, you're inferring stuff incorrectly that I never wrote, that seems to be a running theme with you.

I choose to lower the resolution instead of enabling DLSS in many instances. The TV I have is freesync up to 120Hz and my personal choice is to go for higher framerates at 1080p than to try an get playable framerates at 4K using upscalers. If I only had a 60Hz TV I'd probably choose DLSS more often.

If you refer back to this post, I think you'll find it changes nothing I care about.
View attachment 245764
You'd get into a lot fewer pointless and silly arguments off-topic if you stopped name-calling like a five year old and making baseless generalisations / incorrect assumptions about people you have no information on.

Nah the more info you provided the more I'm sure that you are just a hypocrit, sure play 720p Low with an RX570 on a 4K screen, doing that sure doesn't degrade the gaming experience for you , yet save you some money too, why do you even need a 3060Ti?

 

[chrcoluk]

I noticed TPU's comment on the FE design.

My opinion the FE ampere gpu's are the most nice looking and most sturdy GPU's I have ever seen, no sag due to the structural strength of the card, you can hold it with a iron tight grip without worrying about the shroud falling to pieces.

On the 3090 TI itself however, horrible product. The only nice thing is the VRAM capacity but at a way too big price premium.

 

[Valantar]

It's a free market, don't like it, don't buy it, Nvidia and AMD will get the memo when no once is buying their overpriced crap, heck even the 6500XT is considered overpriced despite how cheap it is.

If the free market decide that premium products are here to last, so be it. If gaming ever became too expensive for you, just stop gaming. Lol the PC gaming space was declared dead decade ago when cheap Consoles came out but here it is, still going strong.

"It's a free market" - the go-to adage for people running out of arguments when talking about market dynamics and actors within markets. And as always, both utterly devoid of value in the debate and utterly transparent as a rhetorical device attempting to shut down criticism of dysfunctional markets.

Also, "free" as in unregulated markets are wide open for manipulation and abuse. There is nothing "free" about them. They're a playground for the rich and unscrupulous trying to enrich themselves, unless someone has oversight and authority to ensure fair dealings.

And, of course, the age-old "if you can't afford it, just stop" - a double whammy of poor shaming, both implicitly arguing that it's entirely fine for rich people to determine the limits of poorer peoples freedom, and denying any external factors having an effect on these things. All the while trying desperately to shift the focus onto the person bringing up a problem, rather than discussing the problem itself. Just wonderful, really.

 

[Chrispy_]

I noticed TPU's comment on the FE design.

My opinion the FE ampere gpu's are the most nice looking and most sturdy GPU's I have ever seen, no sag due to the structural strength of the card, you can hold it with a iron tight grip without worrying about the shroud falling to pieces.

On the 3090 TI itself however, horrible product. The only nice thing is the VRAM capacity but at a way too big price premium.

Nividia's FE coolers have really been on-point since about the 900-series IMO.

I know the 900 and 10xx series were blower cards, but they were damn fine blower cards for the blower era of coolers. Well made, good-looking, high-quality materials, quieter fans than other blowers etc.

 

[nguyen]

"It's a free market" - the go-to adage for people running out of arguments when talking about market dynamics and actors within markets. And as always, both utterly devoid of value in the debate and utterly transparent as a rhetorical device attempting to shut down criticism of dysfunctional markets.

Also, "free" as in unregulated markets are wide open for manipulation and abuse. There is nothing "free" about them. They're a playground for the rich and unscrupulous trying to enrich themselves, unless someone has oversight and authority to ensure fair dealings.

And, of course, the age-old "if you can't afford it, just stop" - a double whammy of poor shaming, both implicitly arguing that it's entirely fine for rich people to determine the limits of poorer peoples freedom, and denying any external factors having an effect on these things. All the while trying desperately to shift the focus onto the person bringing up a problem, rather than discussing the problem itself. Just wonderful, really.

haha yeah maybe you should ask your government to forbid sale of any GPU more expensive than an 6900XTXH LOL

 

[Valantar]

haha yeah maybe you should ask your government to forbid sale of any GPU more expensive than an 6900XTXH LOL

... Or maybe there are more options for how markets can work in between "corporate hellscape" and "totalitarian government tells you what you are allowed to buy"? Yeah, no, you must be right, it sounds completely impossible to come up with anything in between those two.

I mean, it's fun arguing with you. Laughing responses to every post, straw man arguments, shifting goal posts, and the general tone of your "arguments" boiling down to "stop complaining". Not arguing in bad faith, oh no, not at all.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Surprised that despite the significantly higher power limit out of the box, it only manages 5-8% over a 3090 FE. It seems in line with what I get out of my 3090 TUF OC, actually, maybe a wee bit faster. Not worth it for $2000... this card gives me major GeForce 8800 Ultra vibes. Which totally was worth it over the 8800 GTX, right?

This card exists purely so Jensen can claim "first" on 12VHPWR connector for "PCI Express 5.0 compliant power delivery", imho. Not even sure how that's a positive

I'd like to point out that the prices of the GPU market has nothing to do with crypto, as crypto mining is not efficient with GPU. It has everything to do with inflation and the fable of "Moore's law". They could have released 10 years ago sub nanometric semiconductors but you can't milk a market like that.

Could have fooled me... I can't imagine how single individuals buying 100+ GPUs would have strained the market supply... or companies buying five hundred thousand cards, like it's happened before. Then you add a pandemic, people at home... yeah, it was nasty. But the cryptocurrency Ponzi scheme did, does and looks like it will have an active impact in GPU pricing and supplies going forward for as long as this scam is viable and there are suckers to buy into it.

 

[wolf]

fails to address the ever-shifting prices of GPUs, the constant creep towards unaffordability and "premium"ness that we've seen for a decade now.

Price creep, as you've somewhat covered is influenced and contributed to by many many things, the 3090Ti specifically, being a minor one if that. I'm not really interested too much in a discussion of all of the contributing factors, if we could even collectively name and quantify them.

I hate the price creep too, don't get me wrong, but to the people looking at the 3090Ti as some sort of price creep lighting rod and like Nvidia has some figurative gun to their head to buy it, and that's a pretty average take if not made in jest.

Native is best, I don't think that's ever been up for debate

It's been demonstrated time and time again that Native image quality can be exceeded.

I didn't think people were still debating that it can't be.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

The power consumption is worse

@W1zzard i
I have to point out the part of the conclusion where you say

That's... dubious. Maybe for people with no other financial obligations. For anyone else, not even close. The median wage in the US is less than $20 000/year. Of course that's due to the US having a massive working class, many of which are better classified as working poor, with the middle class shrinking alongside stagnant wages for decades. But still, Saying "most middle class workers" can afford spending 10% of the country's median wage on a single item for a hobby? That's a significant stretch. There are absolutely plenty of not-rich people out there with expensive hobbies (cars, motorcycles, mountain bikes, photography, etc.), but that's still a relatively small group of relatively privileged people. "Most" is nowhere near accurate, and ultimately just serves to justify what is a ludicrous price for an overall ludicrous product.

Ummmm.....

"The real median personal income in the US in 2019 was $35,977/year."
"The median household income in the US in 2019 was $68,703"

What Is the Average American Income in 2021? | PolicyAdvice

What is the average American income? What is considered a good income in the USA? Check out these interesting facts and stats!

policyadvice.net

Where did you find that less then $20,000 number from?

 

[Mussels]

Right, so how long before i can get my hands on a 3090-> Ti crossflash BIOS

Funnily enough, the VRAM on my 3090 does in fact clock higher than the 3090Ti (This is 24/7 stable, although i dont run it normally to save power)

Next all i gotta do is worry about that 256 shader difference - that 0.024% performance difference is going to be devastating

 

[nguyen]

... Or maybe there are more options for how markets can work in between "corporate hellscape" and "totalitarian government tells you what you are allowed to buy"? Yeah, no, you must be right, it sounds completely impossible to come up with anything in between those two.

I mean, it's fun arguing with you. Laughing responses to every post, straw man arguments, shifting goal posts, and the general tone of your "arguments" boiling down to "stop complaining". Not arguing in bad faith, oh no, not at all.

Oh yeah I wonder why Nvidia stop making 2500usd GPUs like the Titan V and Titan RTX, maybe it's the free market that decided they are not worth making anymore .

Didn't look like you came up with a reasonable solution between "corporate hellscape" and "totalitarian government" to me, instead you are just complaining about something you cannot change.

It's been demonstrated time and time again that Native image quality can be exceeded.

I didn't think people were still debating that it can't be.

We are dealing with someone who think 1080p upscaled on a 4K screen is still considered Native here, probably doesn't know what Native means

 

[wheresmycar]

You make it sound like unaffordable life saving medicine, it's a ridiculous luxury halo product meant for those with deep pockets and less sense / no cares or compromises.

I wont pretend like the market is affordable, but the 3090ti launched late in the gen, tops the outright performance charts at 4k, and represents the least value. This doesn't mean however, there aren't many other options in the meat of each camps lineups that are sane and offer reasonable value.

And don't think for a second if the camps were reversed, we wouldn't have a broadly equal product. This is the new world we live in, ultra boutique high end products and variations of products for those with deep pockets / will spend big for their niche and desires. It can and does suck, but I doubt its changing anytime soon.

"life saving medicine" thats just a fancy word for "gaming" lol

Nah I partly agree. I'm just blowing steam (a 5-6 year build-up of blow-worthy steam) since 1st Gen Nvidia cards. I was enthusiastically compelled to fork out an extortionate £700 for a 1080 TI. Even back then (5 years ago) £700 for a graphics card was murder .... What can you do, I wasn't going to shift to 1440p 144hz without a card capable of achieving high/ultra quality settings and an avg. 90fps (specific, played games). Similarly with the performance targets intact but newer games demanding more, eventually ended up going for a 2080 TI "used build" for a reasonable charge.

It's not about affordability, fortunately for me i'm financially all-hands-on-deck but the dilemma being I just want the best performance possible (relevantly realistic goals) without being an absolute succumbing consumerist MUG. That should be possible now in 2022 with 2-gens ahead but surprisingly now the mid-segment 3070 TI is going for a whopping £700 and there's a bunch of people suggesting "thats reasonable" - I think not, far from it IMO! That's the problem with XX90's flagship extortionism, the pre-engineered sneaky trickery effects follow through on the lower pecking order of cards and eventually we lose track of what is justifiably reasonable. Forget crypto or the pandemic, these signs were evident prior to the wildly feverish market shake-up.. then again thats smart thinking for the men in suits, excessive corporate progress for the milking profiteering cumulative nature of business. We can't blame them but we can complain amongst ourselves and gather like-minded affirmatives with some level of protesting-awareness for the price to performance conscious. It's definitely helped me over time and so on.

 

[Casinowilhelm]

This card is a colossal waste of money for... anyone. Costs $800 more than a 3080 Ti for a meagre 10% more performance. It's a joke.

24GB of ram is simply a waste of RAM on a gaming card, and Nvidia's marketing justifying it is quite frankly ridiculous (If you're a serious professional you'll be using a professional card, aka Quadro 4000, 4500, 5000, 5500, all at a similar price range and RAM capacity of this card.) Just like the 3090 before it, this card almost exclusively for rich gamers, or ones that have too much ego to get anything but 'the best'.

I'm what you'd call a "serious professional" (freelance for over 20 years). The value proposition of quadros is worse even than 3090 etc as their performance is lower at the same price point as the geforce equivalent. Using unreal engine etc for visualisation/3d rendering as we do, or gpu based renderers like redshift, it makes most sense to get the best gaming cards available rather than quadros, and every single freelancer I know doing the same job as me does this. We ALL run 3090s not quadros.

Of course if you're doing Cad then quadros have those specific viewport accelerations, same for science etc. Doesn't apply to me.

I don't think this card makes much sense either though tbf. 3090 is the sweet spot if you can get it for MSRP (I was lucky at the start)

 

[W1zzard]

I'm what you'd call a "serious professional" (freelance for over 20 years)

Very much appreciate that you took the time to register here and share your experience. Have you tried to bring down the VRAM requirements by using lower resolution models/textures? Would your clients ever notice?

 

[wolf]

I wonder why Nvidia stop making 2500usd GPUs

Another thing that seems quickly or conveniently forgotten, the cost of previous products that effectively fit this niche (within 10-20% of sane high end products, but with a lot more memory) being similarly priced, sometimes a bit more, sometimes less, like the Titans. Also the power consumption/TDP/available board power of silly halo products, but somehow the 3090Ti is the outrage lightning-rod for both and is making everyone worried for the future, despite a rich history of similar level products is the last decade or so. Ahh well, I suppose next time Nvidia or AMD make something that fits in this space, history will repeat itself yet again?

 

[Bzuco]

@W1zzard that is possible only if you prepare those models from scratch for your self. Plenty of models you can buy on market or for free have exaggerated polycounts. Remodeling cost additional time. With textures it is easier, textures from market with 4pix. per one milimeter can be easily resized to something reasonable.

@Casinowilhelm + cooling solution on quadros is also not ideal