USB Sound Cards Explained: Tech, Benefits, Do I Need One?

[zlobby]

I did think about getting the CA DacMagic 200M, how does the iDSD Signature compare?

I do wish Creative had a more serious product; one what would match something like the iFi Zen DAC v2 with the gaming features of an X4...

Simply, they don't compare. The price alone should be indicative, although I must admit that in the world of audio price alone is very misleading.

The iFi is a world of its own. With all the I/O options it is as future-proof as it gets.
The Burr-Brown and the tube are vastly superior of the Sabre cr@p in the CA, hence the price.

iFi iDSD Signature is what you may want to consider end-game if you don't plan on $150,000 turntable later on.

Creative won't introduce anything like you need, simply because it's too little profit margin left for them, plus the market for such a product simply isn't there yet.
Their current top-tier stuff ends with 24bit/96kHz, which I admit is quite enough for gaming, as most in-game soungs are sampled even below 44.1kHz and there is also lossy compression at play. So, a 32bit/786kHz capable DAC is insane overkill.
It's like driving your Veyron to the local grocery store two blocks away.

 

[X71200]

Well, the Sabre, even older chips aren't exactly crap. As for the 96 Khz, realistically you're working with 44 kHz most if not all the time when you're doing your everyday tasks such as listening to Youtube.

Sure, higher buffer sizes with more samples offer you more overhead... but like, I can rock and roll with my Line 6 POD unit all day at 44. It can have many effects on top of each other, like a bit ago I stacked dual compressors with reverb + EQ. Was a solid karaoke experience.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Is a Wolfson WM8742 24-bit DAC any good?

 

[X71200]

That looks like an older chip. The ESS Sabre 192 for example found in the Motu box is the modern take, and better than most things in its realm. It's an interface rather than a dedicated DAC, but like... it's also very good.

 

[zlobby]

Well, the Sabre, even older chips aren't exactly crap. As for the 96 Khz, realistically you're working with 44 kHz most if not all the time when you're doing your everyday tasks such as listening to Youtube.

Sure, higher buffer sizes with more samples offer you more overhead... but like, I can rock and roll with my Line 6 POD unit all day at 44. It can have many effects on top of each other, like a bit ago I stacked dual compressors with reverb + EQ. Was a solid karaoke experience.

Hmm, Sabres have way too unfaithful and harsh mids for me personally. Not just one particular model but many such, used in various setups. Plus, heads on with the BB they stand no chance.

YouTube? Come on! Even Deezer has 44.1 FLAC for 99% of its content. That's my daily and to-go solution. I use YT only for some informative videos.

And lastly, you touched another topic - the pure subjective experience of music.
Back in the teenager days we were rocking Diva mp3 player with $5 earbuds and we were happy! Heck we've done parties with Creative's (LOL) 5.1 active systems and we had heck of a time.

Many people who invest in high-end audio are badly disappointed when they find out they just don't have the hearing to enjoy their expensive toys.
Then comes timbre, tubes vs solid-state, etc. Some prefer bass-boosted Beats, some like 'em as flat as they come, some just like honey-dripping cymbals.

Bottom line? Do some research and TRY BEFORE YOU BUY (where possible). Only true double blind ABX with properly set priors can show if you can even hear any difference.

Is a Wolfson WM8742 24-bit DAC any good?

It should be good on its own. Real question is what you want it to be good for? Id est, what codecs you want to play, what resolution, what headphones or just as a pre-amp, etc.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Hmm, Sabres have way too unfaithful and harsh mids for me personally. Not just one particular model but many such, used in various setups. Plus, heads on with the BB they stand no chance.

YouTube? Come on! Even Deezer has 44.1 FLAC for 99% of its content. That's my daily and to-go solution. I use YT only for some informative videos.

And lastly, you touched another topic - the pure subjective experience of music.
Back in the teenager days we were rocking Diva mp3 player with $5 earbuds and we were happy! Heck we've done parties with Creative's (LOL) 5.1 active systems and we had heck of a time.

Many people who invest in high-end audio are badly disappointed when they find out they just don't have the hearing to enjoy their expensive toys.
Then comes timbre, tubes vs solid-state, etc. Some prefer bass-boosted Beats, some like 'em as flat as they come, some just like honey-dripping cymbals.

Bottom line? Do some research and TRY BEFORE YOU BUY (where possible). Only true double blind ABX with properly set priors can show if you can even hear any difference.


It should be good on its own. Real question is what you want it to be good for? Id est, what codecs you want to play, what resolution, what headphones or just as a pre-amp, etc.

Just wondered as it seems my CA DAC might be using this chip, maybe it is time for me to retire it and get something newer, though there is no way i would be even close to paying $900 for one.

 

[X71200]

Hmm, Sabres have way too unfaithful and harsh mids for me personally. Not just one particular model but many such, used in various setups. Plus, heads on with the BB they stand no chance.

YouTube? Come on! Even Deezer has 44.1 FLAC for 99% of its content. That's my daily and to-go solution. I use YT only for some informative videos.

And lastly, you touched another topic - the pure subjective experience of music.
Back in the teenager days we were rocking Diva mp3 player with $5 earbuds and we were happy! Heck we've done parties with Creative's (LOL) 5.1 active systems and we had heck of a time.

Many people who invest in high-end audio are badly disappointed when they find out they just don't have the hearing to enjoy their expensive toys.
Then comes timbre, tubes vs solid-state, etc. Some prefer bass-boosted Beats, some like 'em as flat as they come, some just like honey-dripping cymbals.

Bottom line? Do some research and TRY BEFORE YOU BUY (where possible). Only true double blind ABX with properly set priors can show if you can even hear any difference.

It should be good on its own. Real question is what you want it to be good for? Id est, what codecs you want to play, what resolution, what headphones or just as a pre-amp, etc.

I was trying to make a round up. The majority of the people consume their content out of Youtube. Deezer is not a common choice.

As for the high end audio fandango, I bought the Presonus unit on a sale and the POD rack for even cheaper second hand. They've both been amazing devices so the key here is doing your research and buying actually good gear. You can't test this kind of stuff everywhere, it's not a Macbook or something.

Just wondered as it seems my CA DAC might be using this chip, maybe it is time for me to retire it and get something newer, though there is no way i would be even close to paying $900 for one.

$900 is a rip off, lol. The M2 costs like 200 bucks for a high end chipset, and you can find DACs with solid converters for much cheaper.

 

[zlobby]

I was trying to make a round up. The majority of the people consume their content out of Youtube. Deezer is not a common choice.

As for the high end audio fandango, I bought the Presonus unit on a sale and the POD rack for even cheaper second hand. They've both been amazing devices so the key here is doing your research and buying actually good gear. You can't test this kind of stuff everywhere, it's not a Macbook or something.




$900 is a rip off, lol. The M2 costs like 200 bucks for a high end chipset, and you can find DACs with solid converters for much cheaper.

In general, I agree. I was mentioning Deezer as the cheapest (money-wise) alternative for music streaming. Lol, even YT's monthly subscription is more expensive than its.

As for @Tigger 's question, maybe he can tell us what are his needs and a budget, so we could recommend a possible upgrade.

 

[X71200]

I mean, I used Deezer for a while and found the interface and usage just a bit off. Besides, who uses Youtube Premium for real anyways... just grab a good adblocker like Adguard and launch the site.

 

[SOAREVERSOR]

The biggest problem with DACs is that they usually have no software. And even the best DAC with the best headphones will not result in having a perfect audio experience.
Personally I absolutely need an equalizer, I cannot enjoy audio without it. No matter what kind of audio equipment I had, I always needed an equalizer to make the best of it.

So for my speakers I simply use HDMI audio to output to my receiver, which has a graphic equalizer.

But for my headphones I still use my old Sound Blaster X-Fi HD USB sound card, which has really good audio quality and very nice software (with an equalizer).

If you want the software side of it you're looking at a soundcard or similar solution. You can get that from creative or something like this https://steelseries.com/gaming-headsets/arctis-pro-gamedac?color=black (I found these at 100 on sale and decided to try them and they are actually pretty good, since I already have a mouse from them it's one driver suite).

But there are other ways to go about this. Take schiit (which always gets recommends) as an example, they have a hadware eq. So you can get a DAC https://www.schiit.com/products/modi-1 then an amp https://www.schiit.com/products/magni-1 then get a hardware EQ https://www.schiit.com/products/loki-mini-3 which is a good way to go about it. That's their cheapest version but you can go hogwild as well.

Some mini DACs do come with an eq plugin as well see here https://www.minidsp.com/products/plate-amplifiers/il-dsp-headphone-amp

Ultimately with sound someone is making what you're looking for.

If you go for iFi, then pick the Diablo or the Gryphon. They are both made on iFi's latest 'Dragon' architecture. With them at least the sound sound will be miles ahead comapred to Creative's.
Well, no 'gaming' features but at least you'd get a very decent DAC/amp combo.

Hell, if you can afford it, go for the iDSD Signature.

The Diablo is more expensive than then iDSD. Did you mean the iCAN signature?

 

[chr0nos]

Simply, they don't compare. The price alone should be indicative, although I must admit that in the world of audio price alone is very misleading.

The iFi is a world of its own. With all the I/O options it is as future-proof as it gets.
The Burr-Brown and the tube are vastly superior of the Sabre cr@p in the CA, hence the price.

iFi iDSD Signature is what you may want to consider end-game if you don't plan on $150,000 turntable later on.

Creative won't introduce anything like you need, simply because it's too little profit margin left for them, plus the market for such a product simply isn't there yet.
Their current top-tier stuff ends with 24bit/96kHz, which I admit is quite enough for gaming, as most in-game soungs are sampled even below 44.1kHz and there is also lossy compression at play. So, a 32bit/786kHz capable DAC is insane overkill.
It's like driving your Veyron to the local grocery store two blocks away.

I have a SounblasterX G6 and it sounds great, goes all the way to 32bit/96khz 7.1 or 32bit/384khz stereo... stop spreading FUD please...

If u hate them thats your opinion, dont enforce it on ppl.

Also

You don't NEED an amplifier - YouTube

 

[X71200]

Of course you need an amp if you have passive speakers. How on earth are you going to power them otherwise? Active speakers are amped in themselves so you don't need an amp with them.

 

[crimsontape]

And here I am with my Asus Xonar STX... And everyone is emancipating themselves and burning their cards

 

[SOAREVERSOR]

Of course you need an amp if you have passive speakers. How on earth are you going to power them otherwise? Active speakers are amped in themselves so you don't need an amp with them.

Adding more to the point, higher end headphones do require a dedicated amp to properly power them. Especially once you get into good planar magnetics or if you have the cash electrostatic. Even some IEMs require an amp. The etymotic ER4SR and the old version are both flat response reference IEMs for audio mastering and don't work well without one. They are designed for use at a desk not on the go.

And here I am with my Asus Xonar STX... And everyone is emancipating themselves and burning their cards

There's nothing wrong with an internal soundcard. The change came about for other reasons. Laptops took over from desktops and there is no way to add an internal card to them. Windows Vista/7 tanked a a lot of the stuff like x-fi creating issues in the market. The original PCI-E cards had issues and as PCI slots vanished a lot of the cards people had couldn't be imported into new systems. Dedicated onboard audio on higher end motherboards got "good enough" to compete with lower end sound cards.

Good soundcards are still a great idea and there are a lot of them. It's just that the landscape changed around them.

 

[X71200]

On the other hand, internal soundcards suffer from various things compared to DACs. They have lame EMI shields and they can't carry as much stuff on the board. Like with a DAC, you're dedicating stuff outside of the card so you can stack more and better components into it (typically). External is just the better form unless you're doing onboard. I just don't see PCI-E sound cards as a modern thing anymore (hasn't been for long, in fact).

 

[trsttte]

@Inle any chance the discount is extended to the EU store?

 

[zlobby]

I have a SounblasterX G6 and it sounds great

Alright!

Adding more to the point, higher end headphones do require a dedicated amp to properly power them. Especially once you get into good planar magnetics or if you have the cash electrostatic. Even some IEMs require an amp. The etymotic ER4SR and the old version are both flat response reference IEMs for audio mastering and don't work well without one. They are designed for use at a desk not on the

Uhm, there are plenty of 'higher end headphones' at 32Ohm. Beyerdynamic's come to mind. And they DO NOT need a powerful amp to drive them.

The Diablo is more expensive than then iDSD. Did you mean the iCAN signature?

I mean this: https://ifi-audio.com/products/pro-idsd-signature/

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Alright!


Uhm, there are plenty of 'higher end headphones' at 32Ohm. Beyerdynamic's come to mind. And they DO NOT need a powerful amp to drive them.


I mean this: https://ifi-audio.com/products/pro-idsd-signature/

That's a ridiculous price £3,249.00 though, totally out of 90% of the populations budget

 

[X71200]

Beyond %90 for sure, https://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/iPower-Elite-8-768x441.jpg

Lol, they're shipping a "muh clean power stage" with it. Looks like something that an audiofool who just rams the deepest pockets would buy.

Not to mention it has tubes in the pre. Warm up section, aging, etc... the best DAC in my book it going to be fully solid state and containing of a fine decoder.

 

[zlobby]

That's a ridiculous price £3,249.00 though, totally out of 90% of the populations budget

And its sound is (measurably) 90% (if not higher) better than its competitors. Emphasis on measurably.

 

[X71200]

And its sound is (measurably) 90% (if not higher) better than its competitors. Emphasis on measurably.

Complete fiasco, you can bring in a frequency chart, but you can't fool us with this overpriced mumbo-jumbo.

Anybody with a gram of actual audio knowledge knows not to buy into this kind of stuff. A more basic high end DAC is way more than enough even with an audiophile with expensive speakers.

 

[zlobby]

Complete fiasco, you can bring in a frequency chart, but you can't fool us with this overpriced mumbo-jumbo.

Anybody with a gram of actual audio knowledge knows not to buy into this kind of stuff. A more basic high end DAC is way more than enough even with an audiophile with expensive speakers.

Disclaimer: I'm by no means affiliated with iFi or any other sound equipment manufacturer.

Everyone is free to use their own head and pick whatever they like.

 

[X71200]

Disclaimer: I'm by no means affiliated with iFi or any other sound equipment manufacturer.

Everyone is free to use their own head and pick whatever they like.

However, you are indeed blatantly going out on suggesting 3300 quid worth of DAC as if it's worth the expense properly. This is the ultimate tomfoolery of the audiophile market, just checking the page alone can tell you it. Please refrain from giving this kind of bad advice in the future.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Which competitors is it 90% better than? and 90% of what? It's ridiculous.

At least it works on a PS4 now at USB 1.0, so they can spend 10 times the cost of the PS4 on the DAC

 

[trsttte]

we need to bring nwavguy back to show measurements don't mean shit after a minimum treshhold