What are the consequences of genetically altering ticks, fleas, and mosquitoes to control their populations?

[Cristian0]

A small extinction event?

 

[Space Lynx]

Point is don't mess with the natural balance in the animal kingdom because it will bite us in the ass eventually. We have control measures for urban areas, just leave it at that.

I agree with this, but I think that is where things get messy. Hawaii wasn't expecting humans to bring ticks and mosquitoes to its lands... so in a way we already messed with the cycles.

 

[R-T-B]

A small extinction event?

We're already in a massive one, small one sounds ok to me.

 

[Space Lynx]

I just realized we should add bedbugs to this list, it's kind of like the Hawaii thing, we never used to have bedbugs, but because of exploration/travel/trade now they are rampant.

I say to hell with the whole fucking lot of them mates, lets do the same to them as we are currently doing to mosquitoes in Florida. I wouldn't be surprised if we actually knew the history of ticks/mosquitoes/bedbugs we would find they actually are an invasive species that shouldn't be in most places to begin with, therefore, the cycle of life actually does not require them in most regions of the world.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Any parasites should be wiped out.........oh wait we are parasites.

 

[64K]

Point is don't mess with the natural balance in the animal kingdom because it will bite us in the ass eventually. We have control measures for urban areas, just leave it at that.

That's what I wonder about. What might be the possible ramifications to take out these insects and what might happen to the insects that feed on them and could it cause problems in the entire food chain eventually.

 

[Steevo]

If we try it in a secluded area and allow the population to remain unaltered in others we can always reintroduce the pests in those areas.

Fly fishing in the mountain streams has let me know trout can see a tiny mosquito clearly above the water, so if it reduces the number of trout, which are also food for salmon, and also food for other trout, and lake fish, bear, etc… the effect might be almost devastating. But there are areas we could try it and see what happens with a backup plan in place. I would love to not need Deet or other smelly products to stay out of the food chain, but only if it means there is no substantial effect on the environment and local ecosystem.

 

[Space Lynx]

If we try it in a secluded area and allow the population to remain unaltered in others we can always reintroduce the pests in those areas.

Fly fishing in the mountain streams has let me know trout can see a tiny mosquito clearly above the water, so if it reduces the number of trout, which are also food for salmon, and also food for other trout, and lake fish, bear, etc… the effect might be almost devastating. But there are areas we could try it and see what happens with a backup plan in place. I would love to not need Deet or other smelly products to stay out of the food chain, but only if it means there is no substantial effect on the environment and local ecosystem.

It's also about what percentage of their diet does the mosquito make up, regardless, areas with salmon/trout should probably be left alone I agree.

That's what I wonder about. What might be the possible ramifications to take out these insects and what might happen to the insects that feed on them and could it cause problems in the entire food chain eventually.

From what I understand so far, ticks/bedbugs/fleas aren't really a major part of any of the food supply chain for any creature, and in fact probably should not have existed to begin with, if it wasn't for exploration/trade over the millenia, they would probably still not exist in many ecosystems.

 

[R-T-B]

Any parasites should be wiped out.........oh wait we are parasites.

Babies are parasites too. Yeetus the fetus?

If we try it in a secluded area and allow the population to remain unaltered in others we can always reintroduce the pests in those areas.

The whole idea is they fly around and mate with other fellow pests producing more of the "small litter" genome type. There's no containing flying insects. It will spread.

 

[Fourstaff]

We are slowly drifting away from the topic guys, please don't get distracted by babies.

 

[TheUn4seen]

Once upon a time in Europe cats were considered pests and were killed en masse. Outcome? Rats moved in and brought with them the Black Plague.
Not that long ago the Chinese in their ignorance tried to kill sparrows just because some old fart with the brain of a rat didn't like them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine was (in huge part) the outcome of that.
Fucking around with modifying ecosystems just because humans don't like some of the animals has been proven time and time again to be a hugely bad idea. Let's focus on controlling the population of the world's deadliest animal, the homo sapiens. Those monkeys are a hugely invasive species, refuse to control their behaviour despite having the capability to do so, exterminated a large percentage of species and show no signs of stopping.

 

[Steevo]

It's also about what percentage of their diet does the mosquito make up, regardless, areas with salmon/trout should probably be left alone I agree.



From what I understand so far, ticks/bedbugs/fleas aren't really a major part of any of the food supply chain for any creature, and in fact probably should not have existed to begin with, if it wasn't for exploration/trade over the millenia, they would probably still not exist in many ecosystems.

In high mountain streams they make up a significant percentage of their diet, young spawn feed on the mosquitoes and other bugs that are in slower moving areas of the streams, or will jump out of water for flying bugs, which fly fishing simulates for them when you can curl the fly a few inches over the water. Out of a hundred eggs only a few will become adults, most are eaten by others or predators.

 

[Space Lynx]

In high mountain streams they make up a significant percentage of their diet, young spawn feed on the mosquitoes and other bugs that are in slower moving areas of the streams, or will jump out of water for flying bugs, which fly fishing simulates for them when you can curl the fly a few inches over the water. Out of a hundred eggs only a few will become adults, most are eaten by others or predators.

Florida is probably making a mistake in this particular case then, population control seems iffy/hubris. Regardless, it is too late now as they already unleashed the genetically modified ones.

Now attempting the same genetic tactics for fleas/ticks/bedbugs is not off the table, but now that I have confirmation on mosquitoes being helpful to fish, that is a no go.

Once upon a time in Europe cats were considered pests and were killed en masse. Outcome? Rats moved in and brought with them the Black Plague.
Not that long ago the Chinese in their ignorance tried to kill sparrows just because some old fart with the brain of a rat didn't like them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine was (in huge part) the outcome of that.
Fucking around with modifying ecosystems just because humans don't like some of the animals has been proven time and time again to be a hugely bad idea. Let's focus on controlling the population of the world's deadliest animal, the homo sapiens. Those monkeys are a hugely invasive species, refuse to control their behaviour despite having the capability to do so, exterminated a large percentage of species and show no signs of stopping.

black plague was not caused by rats. also, cats kill an enormous amount of birds each year, which is really hurting the nitrogen levels in top soil for growing food. I'm not claiming I have the answers to these problems, just saying its more complex than any of us can possibly realize I think.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1715640115

 

[Assimilator]

Once upon a time in Europe cats were considered pests and were killed en masse. Outcome? Rats moved in and brought with them the Black Plague.
Not that long ago the Chinese in their ignorance tried to kill sparrows just because some old fart with the brain of a rat didn't like them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine was (in huge part) the outcome of that.

The Europeans and Chinese didn't have the holistic knowledge of ecosystems that we have today, nor did they have procedures and practices to monitor the impact of culling so-called "pests". They were acting on emotion, not logic and scientific facts.

 

[R-T-B]

black plague was not caused by rats.

It was caused by fleas which are carried by rats.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

It was caused by fleas which are carried by rats.

It was more human fleas than rat ones. look it up

https://www.history.com/news/rats-didnt-spread-the-black-death-it-was-humans

 

[R-T-B]

It was more human fleas than rat ones. look it up

https://www.history.com/news/rats-didnt-spread-the-black-death-it-was-humans

Makes sense honestly, just was out of date on this.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Makes sense honestly, just was out of date on this.

A lot of city's in Europe and especially London were to be honest fucking cesspools of filth at that time, so no surprise most people carried fleas, it was just easy i guess to blame the rats.

 

[yumame]

ticks are a parasite, literally, and are rampant in my area in Central NY. I just pulled one off my leg yesterday (this is never a fun time removing them, there is a reason there is a saying "dug in like a tick") and I've been fortunate that I haven't had any lyme disease complications from previous bites. There used to be a belief if they were on you for X time you would be infected and we would sorta freak out not knowing how long the tick was on you and go get some like nuclear bomb equivalent of antibiotics (I think it is doxycycline) to make sure you don't develop lyme. Now it's more understood you could get infected at any point in time it is attached to you, so things more important to watch out for is if you develop odd rashes at the bite area, the bulls eye rash is the worst and sure sign you got something from it for example. It's always a challenge keeping the dogs and cats tick free too but they get medicine for this and does work for the most part but we put bandanas on them that are sprayed down with permethrin (needs to be diluted) so they wear them outside as an extra layer of tick protection. me and my dad make a SHIT TON of "tick tubes" and just got done making 175 new ones this year to be put at both our homes and our camp. spray permethrin (again should be diluted) on some material like pillow stuffing or anything that critters like mice might use and put that sprayed down material into an old toilet paper tube. distribute them all over where critters could access them, in your basement, sheds, perimeter and tree lines of your property etc. so the mice and other critters grab this material and take it back to their nests and places of travel and therefore kills the ticks before they can really populate. ticks form in those areas more because the stupid critter like mice sure have a hard time removing them so they thrive in areas where there are plenty of "hosts" for them to attach too....like a mouse nest. I am an avid deer hunter too and have seen some really ticked up. It's a bad situation all around. I'm actually going to start spraying a set of pants and shirt and shoes I always wear out doing yard work with permethrin which not only keeps away the ticks but the 'skeeters and black flies etc that drive you nuts in this area. the effect doesn't last forever so it's good to do it say every few weeks or so or after you wash said clothes

rant to say if we can do something to rid the world of ticks, then WONDERFUL! literal parasite, I have a hard time believing there would be any sort of a butterfly effect ridding the world of a parasite, as if ticks somehow help maintain some delicate balance in the ecosystem or certain species etc.

keeping chickens on your property would really combat ticks, they are an animal that eats them up along with other annoying critters in your yard. but chickens aren't going to starve if we rid the world of ticks soooo fuck 'em (ticks that is). as far as I know, no species solely relies on ticks as it's main form of survival (food).

take note, these little pricks, I mean ticks, were not a problem until like maybe 15 years ago. At least in the region I live in, it is different in other regions of the USA and I'm sure the world also. I would be outside all the time as a kid and never ONCE got one on me, or heard of any friends getting one on them, never even heard of ticks until they became a problem. so were animals, birds, chickens etc starving to death prior to ticks population booming in our area? no they ate the few that were around, and all the other stuff they eat, like grubs, snails, worms, seeds etc which they will continue to thrive off of if the tick went the way of the dodo. one last time, fuck ticks

I think exactly the same as you.

 

[mechtech]

less mosquitoes - probably a lot less spread of diesease
could result in more people
also less food for birds, bats, spiders and dragonflys - could result in less of them also

 

[KLiKzg]

less mosquitoes - probably a lot less spread of diesease
could result in more people
also less food for birds, bats, spiders and dragonflys - could result in less of them also

In Brasil this failed, as the populations returned to normal after 2 years: https://www.dw.com/en/genetically-modified-mosquitoes-breed-in-brazil/a-50414340

So, you can't temper with nature much this way.

 

[kapone32]

Florida is probably making a mistake in this particular case then, population control seems iffy/hubris. Regardless, it is too late now as they already unleashed the genetically modified ones.

Now attempting the same genetic tactics for fleas/ticks/bedbugs is not off the table, but now that I have confirmation on mosquitoes being helpful to fish, that is a no go.




black plague was not caused by rats. also, cats kill an enormous amount of birds each year, which is really hurting the nitrogen levels in top soil for growing food. I'm not claiming I have the answers to these problems, just saying its more complex than any of us can possibly realize I think.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1715640115

Florida should be spending that money on a much harder effort at curtailing the Invasive species than controlling pests. If you don't like the things that live in the Swamp. move.

 

[Bomby569]

In Brasil this failed, as the populations returned to normal after 2 years: https://www.dw.com/en/genetically-modified-mosquitoes-breed-in-brazil/a-50414340

So, you can't temper with nature much this way.

Basically you either go full nuclear and wipe all the mosquitoes (and that was even worst consequences) or it will never work.

 

[kapone32]

Basically you either go full nuclear and wipe all the mosquitoes (and that was even worst consequences) or it will never work.

I was watching a Youtube video on the historic flooding in Australia. The reporter was talking in front of a video image of a stop sign being the water level. While he was talking about how bad the conditions were a loon swam across the screen oblivious to the human suffering that was going on. The only part of nature that is going to pay for our folly is us.

less mosquitoes - probably a lot less spread of diesease
could result in more people
also less food for birds, bats, spiders and dragonflys - could result in less of them also

That is not the way it works. As much as we are ignorant there is no good in us destroying or attempting to alter the environment for our health. Mosquitoes also help to build immunity otherwise every year millions of people would die from Mosquito Bites. We have been locked up and now the fact that we have not been exposed to our environment has led to a raft of cardiovascular issues as well. That is not conjecture

 

[R-T-B]

The only part of nature that is going to pay for our folly is us.

That's pretty debatable when you consider, as I mentioned above, we are already in a major largely human-driven extinction event.

In Brasil this failed, as the populations returned to normal after 2 years: https://www.dw.com/en/genetically-modified-mosquitoes-breed-in-brazil/a-50414340

So, you can't temper with nature much this way.

I mean you can, but evolution will just weed them out of the gene pool eventually. The impact is limited. Honestly, in hindsight this sort of result was kind of obvious. I guess we were just hoping it would do more.