TPU's Nostalgic Hardware Club

[Valantar]

I sent a message to the seller this is what he said
*
*I'm just catching up on my eBay (I am an amateur seller and do not have 24-hr support)
Sorry to hear of your disappointment - can you please confirm that the rocker switch on the rear panel is set to I and not 0, ie. set to the 'on' position
The fact that you have had absolutely no signs of life from the machine made me want to check this seemingly obvious detail
The machine left my workshop tested and 100% functional so I am a little concerned*
My reply
Yes it was i confirm that.. You can never tell how the delivery person is going to treat the parcel,I can see why people say collection only with Pc ,s and other heavy electrical goods.If i was selling stuff like that i would do collection only. Quote from you the seller
*The machine left my workshop tested and 100% functional *
Well it was not working when i tried it nothing at all as i said in the message to you.
Does he think i am so kind of idiot that i can,t tell the off switch from the on one?

That sounds like a completely reasonable response from the seller IMO. If I was selling something and the buyer reported it not working, my first response would be to check all the basic stuff, then move into possible troubleshooting. If you're taking this personally, you're approaching this all wrong. The seller isn't telepathic and isn't in the room with you, so they literally can't know what you know or what you have tried.

 

[Greenslade]

That sounds like a completely reasonable response from the seller IMO. If I was selling something and the buyer reported it not working, my first response would be to check all the basic stuff, then move into possible troubleshooting. If you're taking this personally, you're approaching this all wrong. The seller isn't telepathic and isn't in the room with you, so they literally can't know what you know or what you have tried.

I tried all the basic stuff bar putting in a clip to test the PSU and taking *power conecter and touching the pins with the screw driver.All i am saying is it is not working this end.I would rather it was working and not having to send it back.

 

[lexluthermiester]

To be honest, I haven't seen even a 5.25" FDD live, those 8 inch monsters look even beefier..

They really were. Solid reliable though. I never had any problems with 8" discs like I did with 5.25" discs.

 

[Valantar]

I tried all the basic stuff bar putting in a clip to test the PSU and taking *power conecter and touching the pins with the screw driver.All i am saying is it is not working this end.I would rather it was working and not having to send it back.

I'm not saying you didn't, I'm saying there's no way for the seller to know that you did, what you had tried, etc. If your response to basic troubleshooting questions is "do they think I'm an idiot", then you're entering into the conversation with unreasonable expectations. They do not know what you know, and an exchange of information is the very minimum of what is necessary before a possible return. You need to have patience and be willing to communicate.

There is nothing wrong about them asking obvious questions, they're just trying to make this work out to your mutual benefit. Can you imagine how shit it would be for both of you if that had actually been the issue? You'd have to return it unnecessarily, they'd have to refund you and troubleshoot the machine unnecessarily, etc. Them asking you questions, no matter how basic, at this point is a good thing. Period. They're demonstrating a good-faith approach to the deal and a desire for things to work out.

 

[Greenslade]

The seller just got back to me this is what he says

Just wondered if we could try anything else before the return..? It just seems strange that it chose this moment to stop after working perfectly for 15 years - I built this pc for my brother and he's finally upgraded! What were you planning to use it for ? Maybe we could try and sort it over the phone. I would try a different IEC mains cable in case the fuse has blown​

 

[ExcuseMeWtf]

They are going above and beyond what they are required to by attempting to help you. Maybe try what they suggest?

 

[Greenslade]

They are going above and beyond what they are required to by attempting to help you. Maybe try what they suggest?

I have never had anything like this before ,if i say sonething is not working the seller acepts it and it goes through with no problem.

 

[Ruru]

PSU can always be the problem with older computers. Even tho if it worked with the paperclip thing, it's not sure that does it work in actual usage.

 

[Greenslade]

PSU can always be the problem with older computers. Even tho if it worked with the paperclip thing, it's not sure that does it work in actual usage.

Thanks for that ,what about the one where you take the power one out and put a screwdriver on the pins?I don,t see what the seller can do on the phone to me,,well he can,t do anything as i don,t have a Smart or iPhone

 

[Ruru]

Thanks for that ,what about the one where you take the power one out and put a screwdriver on the pins?

That's what I meant above, even if the PSU turns on, it can still have problems.

 

[Greenslade]

That's what I meant above, even if the PSU turns on, it can still have problems.

I will continue with the return.

 

[Ruru]

I will continue with the return.

Yeaaah, it's better to get a working one instead of it needing you to fix it

 

[Greenslade]

Yeaaah, it's better to get a working one instead of it needing you to fix it

You are right there. I don,t know how i could fix it anyway.I don,t know where to start.

 

[Valantar]

I have never had anything like this before ,if i say sonething is not working the seller acepts it and it goes through with no problem.

Honestly, is that what you prefer? To have to go through the hassle of a return without even trying to troubleshoot it first? Remember: unless you've explicitly detailed everything you have done to figure this out to the seller, they have no way of knowing what you have done or not. Starting from the assumption that you might only have plugged it in and tried to turn it on is the only sensible starting point.

To me, junpingb straight to the return without any attempts at fixing it first sounds like a shit experience for no good reason. From a retail/customer service perspective, you always try to fix the problem first, as the hassle of troubleshooting is always a tiny fraction of the hassle of a return, for everyone involved, and it has a very real possibility of fixing the issue.

It also seems like they're not actually contesting the return, so I see no reason to be annoyed at this. It's a shame it didn't work, but these things happen, sadly. Heck, one of my old PCs died outright being carried about 100m from my dorm to a LAN. Just flat out refused to ever power on again. Could be a dry solder joint somewhere, could be almost anything.

 

[Greenslade]

Honestly, is that what you prefer? To have to go through the hassle of a return without even trying to troubleshoot it first? Remember: unless you've explicitly detailed everything you have done to figure this out to the seller, they have no way of knowing what you have done or not. Starting from the assumption that you might only have plugged it in and tried to turn it on is the only sensible starting point.

To me, junpingb straight to the return without any attempts at fixing it first sounds like a shit experience for no good reason. From a retail/customer service perspective, you always try to fix the problem first, as the hassle of troubleshooting is always a tiny fraction of the hassle of a return, for everyone involved, and it has a very real possibility of fixing the issue.

It also seems like they're not actually contesting the return, so I see no reason to be annoyed at this. It's a shame it didn't work, but these things happen, sadly. Heck, one of my old PCs died outright being carried about 100m from my dorm to a LAN. Just flat out refused to ever power on again. Could be a dry solder joint somewhere, could be almost anything.

As i have said in here before i am new to problem solving with PC,s i am a newbie to it all ,i am not a tech person.I did trouble shot ,i took the Ram out one by one to test if it was the Ram. Disconnected the PSU from the motherboard and put it back on there.Loosed the screws on the motherboard to move it about then tighten the screws back.Tried different mains leads ,i have lots of them like most of us.That is what i call basic stuff.You are right there ,it is a risk you take buying on line.I can see why quite a few people say collection only.And in this sellers info he did say collection in person.I was surprised that he would send it by post.But him living in the other side of the country limits someone collecting it in person.As opposed to me living in London.I see your point there.Like i said to the seller something can be working one day and the next it does not work.I replied to the seller and told him i was sending it back.This is his reply he says what you said. All packed and ready to go tomorrow

Sure, look forward to receiving it and refunding you. I was merely trying to avoid any further inconvenience on your part.​

 

[Audioave10]

Adrian has a long video where he gets an ancient DOS working for a 1975 Computer. Amazing stuff! (if you have the time)

As Retro as you can get.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Adrian has a long video where he gets an ancient DOS working for a 1975 Computer. Amazing stuff! (if you have the time)

As Retro as you can get.

So retro there is no video output. Getting those drives working was a pain for him. The problem is that those computers originally used 8" floppy drives, making 5.25" work took some doing. Props to Adrian for even getting it all working! I've been following that series of videos.

 

[toastem2004]

Tore down the M9700. The existing thermal paste was like concrete! Finally got the GPU's, CPU, and chipset cleaned and reapplied some thermal paste (cooler master ice fusion). Hoping temps come down a bit.

 

[lexluthermiester]

(cooler master ice fusion)

I've got a small tube of that. Good stuff!

 

[masterdeejay]

I built an old top end AGP rig for testing.
Asrock 865PE motherboard, modded bios to support wolfdale. I dont have better AGP motherboard, but i think a fast core 2 is not limiting these cards.
I have a lot of lga775 cpus i did not want to use quad core because it was almost useless for retro gaming so i stayed with dual core, first is used an E6750 but when i modded the bios i selected newer wolfdale Core2 E5300@3,4ghz cpu (i do have E8400 but it not works in this motherboard, there is no support for 1333 fsb wolfdale, only with the conroe)
Stock Intel Cooler, the cpu is cool even with overclocking (i only raised the fsb to 1066, no extra voltage or ram divider change)
2x1Gb Kingston brand average DDR1 400@440
120Gb Kingston SSD
Evga 600w psu

So i have test a few VGA cards with 3dmark01se, WindowsXP

So first a very slow FX5600XT (i think it is the slowest 5600 ever made, 64bit ram)
It is hot, slow and ugly.


For next it was the budget king, i chose a very low end Msi MX440 64bit, but i overclocked a bit (300/600). Funny it is FASTER than the FX5600XT
Yes the low end fx series is that bad that a low profile 64bit mx440 can beat it. So it is possible a beter mx440-460 can beat the non LE/XT version of the FX5600.



Next is a still low end FX5600 but with 128bit memory. Much better than the XT variant.


Ok so i bored with the low end stuff next is Leadtek A280Le despite is an LE card it is much more better than the Fx5600 nearly double performance in 3dmark01se (DX7/DX8)
It is a Ti4200-8x so it can overclock for 300/600, almost all 4200 can handle these clocks. i have lost the picture about the card, it is a single fan version with big heatsink that cools the vrams.



And time for non native AGP cards ( PCIe-AGP bridge chip on the card)
Inno 7600Gs overclocked


MSI 6600GT but it was with the slower cpu E6750 (2,66ghz 1333fsb) Not overclocked.


I do have a lot of AGP cards but very little time for testing.

The bad thing is the motherboard not supports 3.3v cards only the universal and the 1.5v cards. Is there any voltage converter adapter?

 

[Greenslade]

I am really getting into all this Retro stuff. I was thinking of building a 462a socket Retro PC after watching Phil,s and this guy's videos.

I see that the crapy est one is the one I have in the PC I have coming. This one is from another of my fav you tubers

I have been checking what I should get to replace it and decided on the 9600

Providing the PC is working that is. Not that I know anything about overclocking. I will go for the 9600 after watching Phill,s video, it is good that the 9600 does not have the thermal pad on them.

There are more of them on eBay anyway, and cheaper than the 9550. I just looked on ebay and saw that the 9600 ones on there are not the pro version,i thought they were cheap Van anyone tell me what the difference between the 9600 pro and the 9600SE?
I have just seen this on eBay ATI Radeon 9600SE 128MB DDR AGP Graphics Card
Boxed Opened – never used £15 3.95 make an offer. Do i take a chance and buy it, with out knowing if the PC i have bought is going work, after my last experanxe with the last PC i bought there not working.?I like the idea of buying things that are boxed and unused.

I

I have gone to another site and someone asked why so many versions of the same card? Here's is what someone said
9600SE <crap < 9600 <dirt < 9600pro <9600xt
I will leave this one out.

 

[68Olds]

The ATI Radeon 9250 was not a good gaming graphics card even when it was new. I remember many people complaining that it could not play games from the time period.
Wish I could see the white sticker on the back of the card & get more info on this model. This card isn't in the TPU GPU database, only the 128mb memory PCI & 64mb memory AGP versions.

ATI Radeon 9250 Specs

ATI RV280, 240 MHz, 4 Pixel Shaders, 1 Vertex Shaders, 4 TMUs, 4 ROPs, 64 MB DDR, 200 MHz, 64 bit

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Greenslade]

The ATI Radeon 9250 was not a good gaming graphics card even when it was new. I remember many people complaining that it could not play games from the time period.
Wish I could see the white sticker on the back of the card & get more info on this model. This card isn't in the TPU GPU database, only the 128mb memory PCI & 64mb memory AGP versions.

ATI Radeon 9250 Specs

ATI RV280, 240 MHz, 4 Pixel Shaders, 1 Vertex Shaders, 4 TMUs, 4 ROPs, 64 MB DDR, 200 MHz, 64 bit

www.techpowerup.com

It is not the 9250 it is the 9600se look on the label on the card it is very clear.What one would you recommend then and how do you rate this one?
ATI Radeon 9600SE 128MB DDR AGP Graphics Card.
The Radeon 9600 SE was a graphics card by ATI, launched on October 1st, 2003. Built on the 130 nm process, and based on the RV350 graphics processor, in its RV350 SE variant, the card supports DirectX 9.0. Since Radeon 9600 SE does not support DirectX 11 or DirectX 12, it might not be able to run all the latest games. The RV350 graphics processor is a relatively small chip with a die area of only 76 mm² and 60 million transistors. It features 4 pixel shaders and 2 vertex shaders, 4 texture mapping units, and 4 ROPs. Due to the lack of unified shaders you will not be able to run recent games at all (which require unified shader/DX10+ support). ATI has paired 64 MB DDR memory with the Radeon 9600 SE, which are connected using a 64-bit memory interface. The GPU is operating at a frequency of 325 MHz, memory is running at 200 MHz.
Being a single-slot card, the ATI Radeon 9600 SE does not require any additional power connector, its power draw is not exactly known. Display outputs include: 1x DVI, 1x VGA, 1x S-Video. Radeon 9600 SE is connected to the rest of the system using an AGP 8x interface.
On Guzoo the 9600se beats the NVIDIA GeForce FX 5500 on everything apart from the memory 64 3.2 to 128. 6.4.
9250 is in the box it must be the wrong box.

I have gone to another site and someone asked why so many versions of the same card? Here's is what someone said
9600SE <crap < 9600 <dirt < 9600pro <9600xt
I will leave this one out.
From what I am learning the SE version of any card is the basic one.

 

[masterdeejay]

Ok
So 9600xt vs 9600se stock clocks
It is like ti4200 vs mx440 on scores.


Asus 9600xt not the fastest 9600 because 9600TX (renamed 9800se) was the fastest.
Gpu 500mhz that is high, ram 600mhz but it has 2.2ns 900mhz ram so high overclock is possible. I tried oc years ago it but the ram got lower voltage than the stock 900mhz spec so its only stable at ~700mhz. I even modded the vbios rom timings but not worked. If i have time i will try some vmod for the vram because an vaerave oc for a 2.2ns ram is above 1000mhz!
It is rv360, an optimalized version of rv350.
For dx7 games a ti4200 is still faster than this 9600xt.


And the worst 9600 was the SE.
325 mhz gpu clock ram is only 400mhz ddr1. But the worst part is the 64bit bandwidth.
It kills the performance, better buy a 9550 with slower gpu clocks but 128bit ram bandwidth than this shit edition.

I have also a total dead 9600 pro and a 9700 bad vram card.

 

[bobbybluz]

I was digging around looking for parts for a new build in progress and came across this Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe complete with an Athlon 64 X2 6400+ (aka the Space Heater) in it. Fully functional when I stashed it away around 12 years ago.