• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Samsung Begins Chip Production Using 3nm Process Technology With GAA Architecture

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
17,771 (2.42/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
Samsung Electronics, the world leader in semiconductor technology, today announced that it has started initial production of its 3-nanometer (nm) process node applying Gate-All-Around (GAA) transistor architecture. Multi-Bridge-Channel FET (MBCFET), Samsung's GAA technology implemented for the first time ever, defies the performance limitations of FinFET, improving power efficiency by reducing the supply voltage level, while also enhancing performance by increasing drive current capability. Samsung is starting the first application of the nanosheet transistor with semiconductor chips for high performance, low power computing application and plans to expand to mobile processors.

"Samsung has grown rapidly as we continue to demonstrate leadership in applying next-generation technologies to manufacturing, such as foundry industry's first High-K Metal Gate, FinFET, as well as EUV. We seek to continue this leadership with the world's first 3 nm process with the MBCFET," said Dr. Siyoung Choi, President and Head of Foundry Business at Samsung Electronics. "We will continue active innovation in competitive technology development and build processes that help expedite achieving maturity of technology."




Design-Technology Optimization for Maximized PPA
Samsung's proprietary technology utilizes nanosheets with wider channels, which allow higher performance and greater energy efficiency compared to GAA technologies using nanowires with narrower channels. Utilizing the 3 nm GAA technology, Samsung will be able to adjust the channel width of the nanosheet in order to optimize power usage and performance to meet various customer needs.

In addition, the design flexibility of GAA is highly advantageous for Design Technology Co-Optimization (DTCO), which helps boost Power, Performance, Area (PPA) benefits. Compared to 5 nm process, the first-generation 3 nm process can reduce power consumption by up to 45%, improve performance by 23% and reduce area by 16% compared to 5 nm, while the second-generation 3 nm process is to reduce power consumption by up to 50%, improve performance by 30% and reduce area by 35%.

Providing 3 nm Design Infrastructure & Services With SAFE Partners
As technology nodes get smaller and chip performance needs grow greater, IC designers face challenges of handling tremendous amounts of data to verify complex products with more functions and tighter scaling. To meet such demands, Samsung strives to provide a more stable design environment to help reduce the time required for design, verification and sign-off process, while also boosting product reliability.

Since the third quarter of 2021, Samsung Electronics has been providing proven design infrastructure through extensive preparation with Samsung Advanced Foundry Ecosystem (SAFE ) partners including Ansys, Cadence, Siemens and Synopsys, to help customers perfect their product in a reduced period of time.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
571 (0.29/day)
Anyone know to which TSMC node this is comparable?
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2022
Messages
355 (0.39/day)
System Name EA-ZEN
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D with -50mW UV
Motherboard Asus X570
Cooling Big Air
Memory 2x16 GB DDR4 3600 CL16
Video Card(s) Asus RTX 2080 Ti Strix highly OC’ed
Storage 1 TB NVME, 500 GB SSD etc
Display(s) 2x 27”, main: curved 144Hz SVA with BLS and HDR
Case Full Tower
Audio Device(s) Z906 5.1 and Audeze Headphones, Shure SM7B mic
Power Supply Enough
Mouse Old but gold
Keyboard Mechanical Cherry Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores A lot
Is this essentially equivalent to TSMC’s 5nm?
Probably more in line with 3-4nm. And TSMC will use GAA transistors only starting with 2nm.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
17,771 (2.42/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
Anyone know to which TSMC node this is comparable?
This is apparently a pre-emptive strike by Samsung, to say that they started their 3 nm production a quarter before TSMC, as TSMC is supposed to start their N3 note production next quarter.
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2016
Messages
396 (0.12/day)
System Name 06/2023
Processor R7 7800X3D
Motherboard ROG STRIX B650E-I GAMING WIFI
Cooling Custom 240mm cooling (for CPU) with noctua nfa12x25 and Phantek T30
Memory 32gb Gskill 6000 CL30
Video Card(s) RTX 4070 dual asus deshrouded with 120mm NF-A12x25
Storage 2tb samsung 990 pro + 4tb samsung 870 evo
Display(s) Asus 27" Oled PG27AQDM + Asus 27" IPS PG279QM
Case Ncase M1 v6.1
Audio Device(s) Steelseries arctis pro wireless + Shure SM7b with Steinberg UR
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Corsair scimitar pro (this mouse need an overall guys pls) + Logitech G Pro wireless with powerplay
Keyboard Sharkoon purewriter
Software windows 11
Benchmark Scores Over 9000 !
"reduce area by 16% compared to 5 nm"

Wow that's ridiculous low, definitely more a 5nm+ than a 3nm.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
17,771 (2.42/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
"reduce area by 16% compared to 5 nm"

Wow that's ridiculous low, definitely more a 5nm+ than a 3nm.
Welcome to the era of diminishing returns of node shrinks.
This is why all the semiconductor fabs are working on moving to different types of solutions to try and maintain the node shrinkage, but we're seemingly not quite there yet.
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2022
Messages
355 (0.39/day)
System Name EA-ZEN
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D with -50mW UV
Motherboard Asus X570
Cooling Big Air
Memory 2x16 GB DDR4 3600 CL16
Video Card(s) Asus RTX 2080 Ti Strix highly OC’ed
Storage 1 TB NVME, 500 GB SSD etc
Display(s) 2x 27”, main: curved 144Hz SVA with BLS and HDR
Case Full Tower
Audio Device(s) Z906 5.1 and Audeze Headphones, Shure SM7B mic
Power Supply Enough
Mouse Old but gold
Keyboard Mechanical Cherry Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores A lot
"reduce area by 16% compared to 5 nm"

Wow that's ridiculous low, definitely more a 5nm+ than a 3nm.
Because it doesn’t use backsided power architecture (not sure on the name), that would yield more improvement on top.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
17,771 (2.42/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
Joined
Jun 28, 2022
Messages
355 (0.39/day)
System Name EA-ZEN
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D with -50mW UV
Motherboard Asus X570
Cooling Big Air
Memory 2x16 GB DDR4 3600 CL16
Video Card(s) Asus RTX 2080 Ti Strix highly OC’ed
Storage 1 TB NVME, 500 GB SSD etc
Display(s) 2x 27”, main: curved 144Hz SVA with BLS and HDR
Case Full Tower
Audio Device(s) Z906 5.1 and Audeze Headphones, Shure SM7B mic
Power Supply Enough
Mouse Old but gold
Keyboard Mechanical Cherry Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores A lot
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
3,043 (2.31/day)
Processor Ryzen 5 5700x
Motherboard B550 Elite
Cooling Thermalright Perless Assassin 120 SE
Memory 32GB Fury Beast DDR4 3200Mhz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 3060 ti gaming oc pro
Storage Samsung 970 Evo 1TB, WD SN850x 1TB, plus some random HDDs
Display(s) LG 27gp850 1440p 165Hz 27''
Case Lian Li Lancool II performance
Power Supply MSI 750w
Mouse G502
Remember they are all using the same ASML EUV machines, claimed nm is just that, claimed
 

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
4,670 (2.61/day)
Location
Ex-usa | slava the trolls
Probably more in line with 3-4nm.

TSMC's N3 process is a full-node shrink to N5. While its N4 is a rebranded N5+.
So, your statement is incorrect, can't be "3-4".
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2022
Messages
355 (0.39/day)
System Name EA-ZEN
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D with -50mW UV
Motherboard Asus X570
Cooling Big Air
Memory 2x16 GB DDR4 3600 CL16
Video Card(s) Asus RTX 2080 Ti Strix highly OC’ed
Storage 1 TB NVME, 500 GB SSD etc
Display(s) 2x 27”, main: curved 144Hz SVA with BLS and HDR
Case Full Tower
Audio Device(s) Z906 5.1 and Audeze Headphones, Shure SM7B mic
Power Supply Enough
Mouse Old but gold
Keyboard Mechanical Cherry Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores A lot
TSMC's N3 process is a full-node shrink to N5. While its N4 is a rebranded N5+.
So, your statement is incorrect, can't be "3-4".
Oh it can, because Samsung kinda sucks. Your assumption is based on the premise that Samsung is 1:1 competitive with TSMC which they aren’t.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: ARF
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
3,043 (2.31/day)
Processor Ryzen 5 5700x
Motherboard B550 Elite
Cooling Thermalright Perless Assassin 120 SE
Memory 32GB Fury Beast DDR4 3200Mhz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 3060 ti gaming oc pro
Storage Samsung 970 Evo 1TB, WD SN850x 1TB, plus some random HDDs
Display(s) LG 27gp850 1440p 165Hz 27''
Case Lian Li Lancool II performance
Power Supply MSI 750w
Mouse G502
Oh it can, because Samsung kinda sucks. Your assumption is based on the premise that Samsung is 1:1 competitive with TSMC which they aren’t.

it's also wrong just to assume future performance based only on past performances. Sure the past doesn't look good for Samsung but that doesn't automatically mean it will stay like that forever, you just can't know that for sure.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,673 (6.05/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
System Name Tiny the White Yeti
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling CPU: Thermalright Peerless Assassin / Case: Phanteks T30-120 x3
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Steelseries Aerox 5
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
VR HMD HD 420 - Green Edition ;)
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
Benchmark Scores Over 9000
These are TSMC '7nm' equivalents at best, you have to understand that the current nanometer numbers make no sense whatsoever anymore, and Samsung is not cheating one step lower, but multiple.

Their 8nm is on par with TSMC 14~12nm go figure. The gap is so huge it makes no sense whatsoever. I don't trust a single statement coming from Samsung wrt technological parity.
 

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
4,670 (2.61/day)
Location
Ex-usa | slava the trolls
Oh it can, because Samsung kinda sucks. Your assumption is based on the premise that Samsung is 1:1 competitive with TSMC which they aren’t.

Look at the information: 3 nm process - Wikipedia
Samsung's 3GAE should be like TSMC N4 process.
TSMC N4 - 196.6 MTra / sq. mm.
Samsung 3GAE - 202.85 MTra / sq. mm.

1656578110951.png



1656578279424.png

5 nm process - Wikipedia
 
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
3,043 (2.31/day)
Processor Ryzen 5 5700x
Motherboard B550 Elite
Cooling Thermalright Perless Assassin 120 SE
Memory 32GB Fury Beast DDR4 3200Mhz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 3060 ti gaming oc pro
Storage Samsung 970 Evo 1TB, WD SN850x 1TB, plus some random HDDs
Display(s) LG 27gp850 1440p 165Hz 27''
Case Lian Li Lancool II performance
Power Supply MSI 750w
Mouse G502
These are TSMC '7nm' equivalents at best, you have to understand that the current nanometer numbers make no sense whatsoever anymore, and Samsung is not cheating one step lower, but multiple.

Their 8nm is on par with TSMC 14~12nm go figure. The gap is so huge it makes no sense whatsoever. I don't trust a single statement coming from Samsung wrt technological parity.

they had trouble getting the latest ASML tech in the last couple of years, but they just comited recently to the new machines, korea gov was involved i think
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,673 (6.05/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
System Name Tiny the White Yeti
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling CPU: Thermalright Peerless Assassin / Case: Phanteks T30-120 x3
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Steelseries Aerox 5
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
VR HMD HD 420 - Green Edition ;)
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
Benchmark Scores Over 9000
it's also wrong just to assume future performance based only on past performances. Sure the past doesn't look good for Samsung but that doesn't automatically mean it will stay like that forever, you just can't know that for sure.
It seems to be company policy and culture to tout new developments as the ultimate step forward and leading tech, when in fact they've just managed to copy over what is true leading tech, and do so with yields and quality levels that are below what you'd expect. Even their most successful tech, which I'd say is their advancements on (flash) memory, isn't free of issues.

they had trouble getting the latest ASML tech in the last couple of years, but they just comited recently to the new machines, korea gov was involved i think

Yeah, let's see what they manage to do with it. Having access to EUV doesn't mean you're going to magically make great chips with it. Devil's in the details...

Look at the information: 3 nm process - Wikipedia
Samsung's 3GAE should be like TSMC N4 process.
TSMC N4 - 196.6 MTra / sq. mm.
Samsung 3GAE - 202.85 MTra / sq. mm.

View attachment 253019


View attachment 253020
5 nm process - Wikipedia

Ah, where is that Samsung 5LPE process at then? 2018 is four years ago :) This info seems pretty optimistic and rather nonsensical. A bit like throwing feces at the wall. If its not in a product, you can't say what the density is either. Nor how it can be tuned/what the V/F curves will be... etc.
 

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
4,670 (2.61/day)
Location
Ex-usa | slava the trolls
It seems to be company policy and culture to tout new developments as the ultimate step forward and leading tech, when in fact they've just managed to copy over what is true leading tech, and do so with yields and quality levels that are below what you'd expect. Even their most successful tech, which I'd say is their advancements on (flash) memory, isn't free of issues.

They no longer use the incorrect "nm" labeling, instead call something with big letter "N" or as in the 3-nm-class-or-equivalent "3GAE".
 
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
3,043 (2.31/day)
Processor Ryzen 5 5700x
Motherboard B550 Elite
Cooling Thermalright Perless Assassin 120 SE
Memory 32GB Fury Beast DDR4 3200Mhz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 3060 ti gaming oc pro
Storage Samsung 970 Evo 1TB, WD SN850x 1TB, plus some random HDDs
Display(s) LG 27gp850 1440p 165Hz 27''
Case Lian Li Lancool II performance
Power Supply MSI 750w
Mouse G502
Ah, where is that Samsung 5LPE process at then? 2018 is four years ago :)
oh absolutely, i just meant the other way around, in the last couple of years they never managed to secure the latest tech from ASML so that may explain the disavantage... or not.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,673 (6.05/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
System Name Tiny the White Yeti
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling CPU: Thermalright Peerless Assassin / Case: Phanteks T30-120 x3
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Steelseries Aerox 5
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
VR HMD HD 420 - Green Edition ;)
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
Benchmark Scores Over 9000
They no longer use the incorrect "nm" labeling, instead call something with big letter "N" or as in the 3-nm-class-or-equivalent "3GAE".
No, none of the labelling they use now and since Intel went below 14nm is actually 'correct'. Its a classic strategy. You just develop so much terminology nobody knows the truth anymore. Its also the way most information is presented on the internet. FUD everywhere, so who can say what's true anymore? Only those truly in the know and who apply actual historical context (sourced and factual) are going to know what's what. The rest is reduced to sheep with the illusion of knowledge. This is the paradox of transparent and lots of information.

Its marketing departments one-upping each other every gen so shareholders 'see progress'.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: ARF
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,673 (6.05/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
System Name Tiny the White Yeti
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling CPU: Thermalright Peerless Assassin / Case: Phanteks T30-120 x3
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Steelseries Aerox 5
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
VR HMD HD 420 - Green Edition ;)
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
Benchmark Scores Over 9000

PCL

Joined
Aug 24, 2021
Messages
60 (0.05/day)
I don't understand the Samsung bashing on here. GAA could be exciting tech, so shouldn't enthusiasts be rooting for them? Who cares that their record's been spotty before, dismissing a product (or in this case, just a process to make products) before it's released doesn't do anyone any good.
 
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Messages
706 (0.27/day)
Location
France
Processor RYZEN 7 5800X3D
Motherboard Aorus B-550I Pro AX
Cooling HEATKILLER IV PRO , EKWB Vector FTW3 3080/3090 , Barrow res + Xylem DDC 4.2, SE 240 + Dabel 20b 240
Memory Viper Steel 4000 PVS416G400C6K
Video Card(s) EVGA 3080Ti FTW3
Storage XPG SX8200 Pro 512 GB NVMe + Samsung 980 1TB
Display(s) Dell S2721DGF
Case NR 200
Power Supply CORSAIR SF750
Mouse Logitech G PRO
Keyboard Meletrix Zoom 75 GT Silver
Software Windows 11 22H2
Look at the information: 3 nm process - Wikipedia
Samsung's 3GAE should be like TSMC N4 process.
TSMC N4 - 196.6 MTra / sq. mm.
Samsung 3GAE - 202.85 MTra / sq. mm.

Theoretical densities at best ! As it has been demonstrated effective densities are far lower compared to theoretical densities and the gap between those two increases on each generation : The TRUTH of TSMC 5nm .



Also something to keep in mind is GAA offers more advantages than simple increase in denistiy compared to FinFet ( reduced leaking / higher frequency etc ) .
 
Top