When will gpu prices return to normal.

[_JP_]

Then stop paying $1000 for a graphics card that should cost $500.

Leaving $500 on the counter for a card listed at $1000 still counts as theft, from the retailer's POV.

Unrelated to that, still not feeling the market dropping prices here. €20~€100 at best, because of "sales".

 

[tussinman]

Quite the opposite, actually. It's flagships that have taken off in performance. The mid-range has absolutely stagnated in price/perf (at least at MSRP), but the 6600 and 6600 XT are still plenty fast for what they do.

He's now going to do what happened last time someone said the 6600XT is a decent value, he's going to start spamming 4k benchmark charts and ranting that "see it's too slow" even though literally nobody is buying a midrange card to play very high settings at 4k....... (lol)

 

[SpittinFax]

There are many languages in which commas are the correct decimal indicator, so all that would indicate is the likelihood of whoever made the graph not being a native English speaker. As for the rounded-off values: that's typical PR stuff. Hardly surprising. Still, as most of us here know, waiting for reviews is the way to go, with even official launch specs and first party performance numbers only being grounds for speculation, and "leaks" like this having a very high error rate.

Well today I learn. That'd be super confusing.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

Well today I learn. That'd be super confusing.

Never go into international purchasing.

On an unrelated note, I read that miners are attempting a hard fork of Ethereum to prevent the Merge - and many are jumping ship to ETC. Not good - I really hope the value of ETC mining falls as more jump into it, and I REALLY REALLY hope the hard fork fails hard.

 

[Mister300]

My take on pricing
1. Poor die yield at EUV litho scale.
2. ROI comes up very quick when people expect new GPUs every year. Didn't NVDIA give ASML 5 billion just to reserve EUV time (40XX series)? You know the stockholders want this back ASAP.
3. The days of AMD offering a competitive product at reduced pricing are over. My old 390X at 350 USD was the last great price to performance card. People paying well over depreciated value on older GPU is a money losing venture.
4. Easy money allows the buyer to buy a card over time through financing. So no need to drive price down. PayPal gave me 6 mo. no interest. So a 1000 USD Zotac 3080 is paid off in 3 months. The mind is a strange animal, people will spend 7 bucks at Starbucks for coffee every day with zero complaints. If I divide 1000/365 days I pay 2.74 USD for the 3080 GPU. The coffee is almost 2.5x more expensive than the GPU.

 

[ARF]

He's now going to do what happened last time someone said the 6600XT is a decent value, he's going to start spamming 4k benchmark charts and ranting that "see it's too slow" even though literally nobody is buying a midrange card to play very high settings at 4k....... (lol)

People say it's bad. And it is bad..

Insulting bad value:

Worse than expected. It has issues:

AMD’s RX 6600 XT is fine. It’s alright, from a benchmarks standpoint, but it’s also a display of stagnation in a market that is easy to exploit. AMD’s 6600 XT has strayed from value:

I don't think anyone is happy with this card's performance - 128-bit bus, GDDR6 non-X VRAM, literally no performance improvement over the old 5700 XT for the same price, terrible ray-tracing performance.

this cache is relatively small with just 32 MB (Navi 22: 96 MB, Navi 21: 128 MB)

If we look at higher resolutions, especially 4K, we can see the RX 6600 XT fall behind quite a bit. The primary reason for that is that the L3 cache is rather small with just 32 MB

Raytracing performance is challenging, though. While the card has hardware-acceleration for RT, the performance hit is just too big to make this a viable card for 1080p raytracing, as you'll drop well below 60 FPS in most titles. NVIDIA definitely has the upper hand here. The RTX 3060 and 3060 Ti are roughly twice as fast in raytracing due to additional hardware units.

What's surprising is that the Radeon RX 6600 XT does not support the full PCI-Express x16 interface, only x8. While I suspect this is a design choice that originated from laptops, where a wider bus isn't needed, desktops could definitely run into performance limitations when operating at x8. While it's certainly not a big deal for PCIe x8 4.0, running the Radeon RX 6600 XT in an older computer will have it operate at PCIe x8 3.0, which reduces the bandwidth significantly, resulting in a loss of a few percent in performance in general, with bigger losses and stuttering in specific games that move a lot of data across the bus.

MSI Radeon RX 6600 XT Gaming X Review - Value & Conclusion | TechPowerUp

 

[tussinman]

People say it's bad. And it is bad..

Those videos are literally a joke and hold zero merit. All of those youtube guys where extremely pissy and jaded last year due to the fake MSRPS and soaring prices. Obviously that has no merit on present day when those 2 cards are currently 20-25% below MSRP and currently way better values then both the RTX 3050 and RTX 3060.

The quote I originally quoted ("The mid-range has absolutely stagnated in price/perf (at least at MSRP), but the 6600 and 6600 XT are still plenty fast for what they do") was hardly controversial, especially in my area (fringe RTX 2080 for as low as $265-280 USD is far from awful value).

Insulting bad value:

Literally those 4 things you quoted have actual zero substance for a midrange buyer. A midrange buyer does not care about 4k or raytracing (nobody with half a brain is going to cripple FPS performance on 2 highend gimmicks, those 2 things are geared for enthusiast that actually have the extra horsepower). Your 3rd bullet point of PCI Xpress interference has already been re-tested on both cards and saw less than 2% difference (which is so small it's within the actual margin of error). Your 4th point of cache literally nobody outside of the forum even knowns it's a thing or what it actually does so once again, midrange buyers literally don't give a crap

 

[ARF]

6600 / 6600 XT is not mid-range. The 6700 XT is mid-range.

The 6600 / 6600 XT is some type of hybrid between entry level and mid-range.

 

[tussinman]

6600 / 6600 XT is not mid-range. The 6700 XT is mid-range.

The 6600 / 6600 XT is some type of hybrid between entry level and mid-range.

Then that makes your point even weaker, a potential buyer whose supposedly "not even real midrange" literally doesn't care about the things your complaining about (ray tracing, 4k, cache, and maxing out bandwidth interfaces)

 

[ARF]

Then that makes your point even weaker, a potential buyer whose supposedly "not even real midrange" literally doesn't care about the things your complaining about (ray tracing, 4k, cache, and maxing out bandwidth interfaces)

Non-sense. Why does Nvidia absolutely dominate the market with 80% vs miserable 20% for Radeon? Because "people don't care"?

 

[tussinman]

Non-sense. Why does Nvidia absolutely dominate the market with 80% vs miserable 20% for Radeon? Because "people don't care"?

Yeah your 100% correct. Those RTX 3050 owners (same price as the 6600XT and more expense then the 6600) are all doing 4k gaming with ray tracing and there all analyzing there cache and bandwidth for optimal performance

Yeah those "fake midrangers" really do care

 

[ARF]

Yeah your 100% correct. Those RTX 3050 owners (same price as the 6600XT and more expense then the 6600) are all doing 4k gaming with ray tracing and there all analyzing there cache and bandwidth for optimal performance

Yeah those "fake midrangers" really do care

The psychology of the human being is that they always look to get as much as possible and if possible nothing in return.
There are two cases:
1. First case - the card is cheap, the customer is super happy, the supplier not happy at all because "profit margins";
2. Second case - the card is super expensive, the customer hates it, but the supplier is super happy because "money".

So, if the customer can get a 4K card for $200, they will be happy.
Now, the customer has no choice - so claiming they don't care is a bit comedy.

 

[ppn]

We are pretty close to getting a 4K card for $200, 6600 is 239 with rebates, but im waiting for the 7600 since it provides double the Processors. Well those are fake now, of course just like Nvidia. but 25% improvement is very welcome if it can reach RTX 2080 level. Oh the wait a terrible situation to be in.

And we have to define 4K60 now, this year it runs 4K at high with some features off, next year at medium, next at low, and then can't run 4K anymore. such is the deal.

Actually I can't justify paying more than the surface area, for a 239 mm2, i'm willing to pay $239, for a 400mm2 that would be $400 ish for the cut down gimped die, and above that things go a bit insane. Not to mention the bitness of the bus that has to follow the same rule. But im willing to let that slide for now.

 

[Mikael Andersson]

Leaving $500 on the counter for a card listed at $1000 still counts as theft, from the retailer's POV.

Unrelated to that, still not feeling the market dropping prices here. €20~€100 at best, because of "sales".

When the RDNA3 graphics cards becomes available for purchase the prices will drop on the previous generation of cards.

 

[BlaezaLite]

I do what I want, thanks. Prices are falling as of now, not rising.

I disagree. I was excited as hell that the 6800 Fighter had dropped to £499.99. Now it's jumped back up £558!!! It may be isolated, but it's pissed off me massively.

 

[Chomiq]

When the RDNA3 graphics cards becomes available for purchase the prices will drop on the previous generation of cards.

Just like they did with 5700XT... oops.

 

[Mikael Andersson]

Just like they did with 5700XT... oops.

There were still a mining craze back then.

 

[Valantar]

Never go into international purchasing.

On an unrelated note, I read that miners are attempting a hard fork of Ethereum to prevent the Merge - and many are jumping ship to ETC. Not good - I really hope the value of ETC mining falls as more jump into it, and I REALLY REALLY hope the hard fork fails hard.

Is anyone surprised by this?

People say it's bad. And it is bad..

Insulting bad value:

Worse than expected. It has issues:

AMD’s RX 6600 XT is fine. It’s alright, from a benchmarks standpoint, but it’s also a display of stagnation in a market that is easy to exploit. AMD’s 6600 XT has strayed from value:

I don't think anyone is happy with this card's performance - 128-bit bus, GDDR6 non-X VRAM, literally no performance improvement over the old 5700 XT for the same price, terrible ray-tracing performance.


MSI Radeon RX 6600 XT Gaming X Review - Value & Conclusion | TechPowerUp

I mean, that's a nice highly selective interpretation of what they're saying? Remember: all their criticisms stem from two factors: high MSRPs, and higher street prices. Today, prices are far lower than this. That obviously doesn't excuse the silly high MSRPs, which are indeed still terrible value, but luckily that's no longer representative of on-the-ground reality.

6600 / 6600 XT is not mid-range. The 6700 XT is mid-range.

The 6600 / 6600 XT is some type of hybrid between entry level and mid-range.

... what? No. A $479 GPU is not "mid-range". That's on the border of mid-range and high-end at best. The 6600 is a solid lower mid-range option, the 6600 XT is smack-dab mid-range.

Non-sense. Why does Nvidia absolutely dominate the market with 80% vs miserable 20% for Radeon? Because "people don't care"?

Because Nvidia has an entrenched market position and a decade+ of massive mindshare advantage, leading to most GPU buyers not even considering other GPU makers, as in their mind, GPU = Geforce. This is applicable to a vast proportion of GPU and gaming PC buyers - they either have a strong pro-Nvidia bias, or actually don't know that there are other options out there. Nvidia's mindshare advantage for GPUs is massively stronger than what Intel had in CPUs back in 2017, and it still took AMD 3+ years of offering far better value, and ultimately overall better performance to get ahead in that regard in the CPU space. So, for AMD to overcome Nvidia's mindshare advantage it would still need years and years and years of offering superior products for better prices. And that's a damn tall order.

You're arguing as if markets are rational and meritocratic. They are no such thing - not even close. This is a convenient fiction that capitalists like to espouse as it legitimizes their wealth and exploitation, but it is just that: fiction. Markets are fundamentally irrational, and who comes out on top is a complex mix of luck, timing, funding, access, politics, marketing, and product quality - with the latter arguably being among the least important factors.

 

[StormLightningSL]

Because Nvidia has an entrenched market position and a decade+ of massive mindshare advantage, leading to most GPU buyers not even considering other GPU makers, as in their mind, GPU = Geforce. This is applicable to a vast proportion of GPU and gaming PC buyers - they either have a strong pro-Nvidia bias, or actually don't know that there are other options out there. Nvidia's mindshare advantage for GPUs is massively stronger than what Intel had in CPUs back in 2017, and it still took AMD 3+ years of offering far better value, and ultimately overall better performance to get ahead in that regard in the CPU space. So, for AMD to overcome Nvidia's mindshare advantage it would still need years and years and years of offering superior products for better prices. And that's a damn tall order.

This is so true. Where I am, most small system-builders/sellers are not even willing to offer AMD PCs. It's Intel and Nvidia only. I don't know whether they get better margins on Intel/Nvidia components, but I think this has more to do with the driver compatibility and stability issues that plagued AMD products at one time, which would have meant more service-related calls for these small players.

Even though things have improved so much now in terms of the red team's offerings, there is still a lot of "hate" for AMD products. In a price sensitive market which has very low end-user expertise, the perception of having delivered a quality product coupled with the higher costs of after-sales service calls would matter a lot for small players, especially when the margins are thin.

You're arguing as if markets are rational and meritocratic. They are no such thing - not even close. This is a convenient fiction that capitalists like to espouse as it legitimizes their wealth and exploitation, but it is just that: fiction. Markets are fundamentally irrational, and who comes out on top is a complex mix of luck, timing, funding, access, politics, marketing, and product quality - with the latter arguably being among the least important factors.

This ^^^^^. Very well put!

 

[Mikael Andersson]

This is so true. Where I am, most small system-builders/sellers are not even willing to offer AMD PCs. It's Intel and Nvidia only. I don't know whether they get better margins on Intel/Nvidia components, but I think this has more to do with the driver compatibility and stability issues that plagued AMD products at one time, which would have meant more service-related calls for these small players.

Even though things have improved so much now in terms of the red team's offerings, there is still a lot of "hate" for AMD products. In a price sensitive market which has very low end-user expertise, the perception of having delivered a quality product coupled with the higher costs of after-sales service calls would matter a lot for small players, especially when the margins are thin.


This ^^^^^. Very well put!

AMD's / ATI's buggy GPU drivers goes back more than twenty years... if AMD wants to beat nVidia in sales then they have to fix this.

 

[Arco]

I don't think GPU prices will return to normal after the past few years. Inflation, covid, scalpers, miners, you name it.

Pretty sad I didn't get to build before this but whatever.

 

[Bomby569]

I don't think GPU prices will return to normal after the past few years. Inflation, covid, scalpers, miners, you name it.

Pretty sad I didn't get to build before this but whatever.

i think exactly the opposite. We are now in a recession, inflation is not going anywhere, things will only get worst before they get better. AMD and NVDA need to show profits, demand is going down for some time now, and it will only get worst. Things don't sell in a recession with higher prices, even if they want to play MSRP crazyness you will see a lot of discounted GPU's in the future.

And the cherry on top is they have committed space on TSMC, so they can't really just artificially create a supply shortage, unless they start burying them somewhere.

 

[Arco]

i think exactly the opposite. We are now in a recession, inflation is not going anywhere, things will only get worst before they get better. AMD and NVDA need to show profits, demand is going down for some time now, and it will only get worst. Things don't sell in a recession with higher prices, even if they want to play MSRP crazyness you will see a lot of discounted GPU's in the future.

And the cherry on top is they have committed space on TSMC, so they can't really just artificially create a supply shortage, unless they start burying them somewhere.

Yeah, for better or worse but definitely not normal.

Oh yeah, get screwed.

 

[ppn]

I disagree. I was excited as hell that the 6800 Fighter had dropped to £499.99. Now it's jumped back up £558!!! It may be isolated, but it's pissed off me massively.

This rebound could be a good sign, suppliers are running out of the inventory. And newegg has very few of them left. 6800 XT is a better deal. But none of the deals in the time just before the next gen are any good over all. It's yeah happy happy, and 7800 turns out to be 25-50% faster for the same price at less power for example. I wouldn't even consider 7000 or 40 series before 6000 and 16/20/30 series are gone for good. The only good time to buy is the first possible day. Any day later and it's already obsolete

 

[Lei]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1566764876558901249